Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Technically, that is progression as it is making advancements and movements forward. If you choose to see them as something else I can not help you.
Black Metal.
- Thread starter ROBL2500
- Start date
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
I understand what you are saying, but there are cases and examples where I do not believe it is true.
CV, have you heard Sear Bliss? I would like to know if you believe that is progression.
CV, have you heard Sear Bliss? I would like to know if you believe that is progression.
And if you think that adding random elements to the established framework equals progression, I think you underestimate the term. Progression implies adding to the depth of the genre, by expanding upon it at a fundamental level.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
I understand what you're saying, but I think the issue is who the fuck decides if a band is just tacking something on without the purpose of truly wanting to do something new with music. Who is to decide that adding shoegaze elements into black metal is a gimmick? I mean people have been mixing genres for years and yet you don't see people calling rock a gimmick for mixing blues and country. I just think that it is unfair to assume that just because a band does something "weird" they're doing it for nothing more than to do something weird, and that what they're doing is a regression of black metal or in some way a bastardization.
I get what you're saying, I just don't agree.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
To CV: That's YOUR definition of progression...some people's may differ, just as one person's unique evolution into a different kind of person may be seen by the person as a progression and by others as an idiot becoming different just to be different. It's just another bias.
CV, do me a favor:
http://myspace.com/searbliss
Listen to Arx Idolatriae, one of my favorite songs on Grand Destiny and allow me your thoughts on it. Thanks.
And I agree partially with both sides here, or, to be more accurate, I can see an argument of truth on both sides.
CV, do me a favor:
http://myspace.com/searbliss
Listen to Arx Idolatriae, one of my favorite songs on Grand Destiny and allow me your thoughts on it. Thanks.
And I agree partially with both sides here, or, to be more accurate, I can see an argument of truth on both sides.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
Kind of exactly my point, yeah.
But it's not progression in Black Metal. It's more progression in abstract random composition. Taking a couple "Black Metal" tremolo riffs and then putting in a horn section at random intervals, for example, does not constitute "Progressive Black Metal" but rather a mishmash of traits nearly exclusively identified with Black Metal and some horn sections. What makes it Progressive Black Metal is taking these two elements and making them into one in a cohesive fashion and not just merely two elements in the same song. They essentially become competing ideals when they should be complementing each other.
So yes, it is, in a sense, progression, to throw in some keyboards and violins over some tremolo riffs, but not necessarily Progressive Black Metal, and since this thread is about Black Metal, it's kind of useless to discuss things that aren't Black Metal.
The song was... I dunno, nothing special? It didn't offend my senses or anything, but what exactly is it you feel it adds to the genre?
It's easy, just ask a few questions: Why? What does this add to the music? What's the point? If you can't muster up anything other than it sounds cool, it's unique, it's different, then you probably have a gimmick.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
But I think it should be allowed because I don't really want to deal with a bunch of threads for types of BM or other music which you don't think apply in THIS topic. 
Anyone making a post-black thread will be shot on sight.
Anyone making a post-black thread will be shot on sight.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
The "in cohesive" elements mixed into the black metal doesn't prevent it from being black metal still. As I've said I understand your points, I really do, I just disagree.
Anyways, there is a band I'd like to get everyones opinion on here. Negative Plane
Anyways, there is a band I'd like to get everyones opinion on here. Negative Plane
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
I think you're confusing speakers. I never accused anyone of being a gimmick.
The point that you do bring up, of course, is a very interesting one. Who really is to decide what is genuinely a cohesive incorporation of foreign elements and what is just a mishmash, copy/paste job? The only real answer is that it's almost entirely subjective to the listener, which makes the matter that much harder. I never assumed that a band doing something different (or "weird") must be doing it merely for the sake of being different. I do think that there are bands who do this, but I certainly have no stigma against bands doing something different. And when I used the term bastardization, I didn't mean it in a pejorative fashion.
skeptik
Member
- Feb 7, 2003
- 24,413
- 71
- 48
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
Shoegaze is not as opposed to the same ideas that black metal has, perhaps not ideologically but the DIY ethics and the whole package being required to understand the entire point of it. Mixing the two creates a sort of - I don't know, clash of two types of beauty.
The darkness of black metal combines with the lightness of shoegaze and in a sense forms this "complete" whole, something unified and greater than the two halves when separated.
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
I apologize then for that mistake.
I also understand that some bands do shit for shits sake, I'm a big believer that a band like uneXpect is one of these bands, yet since none of us know the band personally it can't be said for certain - which I agree with you completely on, the subjectivity of it all.
unknown
fuck ftagn
V.V.V.V.V.
Houses Ov Mercury
Funny, because I mentioned Unexpect to Matt in an AIM convo like 10 minutes ago as a band who randomly does shit because they can. Fuck them!
Similar threads
