Black Metal.

Fuck revisionist history.

While I totally understand this argument, I have to point out that the meaning of terms can change (if you say something is "gay" nowadays, very few people are going to think you mean "happy.") Venom may have been referred to once as "black metal," but they did not play black metal as it is now understood.
 
They sound nothing like black metal. Just because they basically invented the genre does not make them a band in the genre.
 
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Who invented black metal?

Early concepts of “black metal” were pioneered in the early-to-mid 1980s by the bands Venom from the UK, Hellhammer from Switzerland, and Bathory from Sweden. These bands, the three pillars of black metal’s *first* wave, were instrumental in architecting the foundation of the genre. Venom were hugely influenced by Motörhead to create raw speed metal infused with over-the-top Satanic themes. They were the first in line with their 1981 release “Welcome To Hell,” which although wasn’t a profoundly philosophical album, hammered the metal world with its own (for the time) vicious Motörhead and NWOBHM influenced brand of musical blasphemy. Venom’s high-tempo sophomore release “Black Metal” would obviously coin the name of the infant genre. Hellhammer’s “Apocalyptic Raids,” released in 1984, was dirty and evil, a direct evolution from the relatively new and extreme speed metal style of the early 1980s. That record contained one of the most influential songs in metal’s history: “Triumph Of Death,” which with its dismal atmosphere, tortured shrieks, plodding Black Sabbath-ish vibe, and motif-based songwriting, would be a key musical tool for later black metal as well as death metal groups. Bathory arrived on the scene in 1984 with their self-titled debut, which was undoubtedly a simple Venom clone… however, Bathory’s second release “The Return,” often dubbed “the most evil album of all time,” took Venom’s sound to an extreme level by using primal, relentless, almost ritualistic riffing and drums, raw production, and for really the first time, the scorched-throat “demonic” vocals that would later become a staple for the genre. Using violent, dynamic, melodic phrases staggered logically to support theme-based songwriting, Bathory were breaking new aesthetic ground in the name of extreme metal. Along with “The Return,” Bathory’s third album “Under The Sign Of The Black Mark” solidified black metal as a musical concept (and the two albums sound amazingly “modern” even today.) Most of the important bands of black metal’s second wave would turn to Bathory for inspiration.

Besides Venom, Hellhammer, and Bathory, a handful of other bands were important in helping shape black metal: Mercyful Fate with 1983’s blackened heavy metal masterwork “Melissa;” Italy’s Bulldozer with 1985’s Venom worshipping LP “The Day Of Wrath”; Germany’s Sodom, with their rough 1984 speed metal EP “In The Sign Of Evil;” and the late coming Brazilian band Sarcofago, whose 1987 LP “INRI” remains an extremely influential release for black metal.

Metallica sounds nothing like Slayer sounds nothing like Laaz Rockit sounds nothing like Kreator sounds nothing like Sabbat sounds nothing like Overkill sounds nothing like Whiplash sounds nothing like Hellias sounds nothing like Coroner sounds nothing like Garlik De'th, yet they're all considered Thrash Metal. NEXT. FUCKING. TOPIC.
 
Mathiäs;6583730 said:
They sound nothing like black metal. Just because they basically invented the genre does not make them a band in the genre.

http://pwnt.co.uk/bm/all.php?#section5

What makes black metal so different from other metal?

The difference between black metal and other styles of metal should be apparent upon listening; one play of Helloween?s “Keeper Of The Seven Keys” side by side with Bathory’s “The Return” should be enough to suggest that they are worlds apart. However, black metal owes a substantial part of its origins to inspiration that was derived from those other genres. As a result, black metal is closely related to several other sub-genres, and occasionally differs only in key areas. However, it should be emphasized that there?s no clear instrumental obligation that all black metal bands must follow; it?s such a widely varied genre aesthetically, with one band sounding almost nothing like the next, that some other factor must be found that easily defines all of these bands as ?black metal?: that factor, as has already partially been explained, is ideology.
The differences between black metal and the four other major genres of heavy metal are detailed as follows, and please note that when writing about other styles of music, generalizations are necessary, and there may always be exceptions to the rule:
Power Metal: Black metal is the least related to power metal in terms of expression. Power metal is very cleanly produced, utilizes traditional singing, is often written with catchy hooks and standard song structures, and is generally played to be extremely ear friendly to almost any audience. Power metal is typically more concerned with catering to its fanbase, and it traditionally values professional showmanship both instrumentally and onstage, a dedication that can reach almost arena-rock levels. Bands who play power metal music may or may not be concerned with any kind of message, metaphysics, or ideological intent. Rather, power metal is more focused on finetuning its aesthetic prowess. However, unlike power metal, black metal can easily exist without these aspects. Often unconcerned with creating a sound that?s pleasing to the ear, but rather a sound that adequately reflects its thematic mood and tone, many black metal musicians often employ extremely raw or unconventional production values; listeners who are only accustomed to power metal frequently dismiss the black metal they hear as “just noise” upon first listening. Musicians who write black metal, especially during and after the second wave, are fond of shunning typical “AB-AB” verse-chorus song structures in favor of a more narrative style of songwriting: the songs are composed of phrases that build on each other and move forward, until they unify into larger structures on their own, revealing a more complete context. Additionally, black metal bands rarely feel the need to play live, and sometimes couldn’t do so even if they wanted to, being made up of only one or two members. Finally, once again black metal works from an underlying worldview; power metal doesn?t demand an ideological focus at all similar to black metal?s.
Thrash Metal: Thrash is certainly more related to black metal than power metal is. Bands from both genres usually share a few goals with their music, namely, aggression, speed, and a vicious, violent attitude. Quite a few black metal bands find their roots in thrash, sometimes so much that the line between the two genres can be blurred: Australia’s Destroyer 666 for example, is called thrash metal as often as they are called black metal, and many groups from black metal’s first wave, like Sarcofago, Tormentor, Possessed, and even Bathory, owe much of their influence to thrash metal music. The main difference boils down to expressive intent. While thrash bands are usually politically expressive and are often even anti-Christian, like with power metal, such a worldview might not be the supreme motivation for their expression, unlike black metal. Thrash is more about simply creating energetic, fist-driving metal, and that’s where aesthetic attention takes control in the music; thrash is no stranger to conventional songwriting and guitar-driven virtuosity. Conversely, a great deal of black metal takes a more attentive, atmospheric stance with its music, and might not be concerned in rousing the listener into a frenzy with its energy.
Death Metal: Black metal and death metal are normally referred to as sister genres because they apparently have so much in common, but in actuality, many of the innovative musicians of black metal?s second wave developed their own styles and techniques specifically out of disgust for the populist shift in death metal at the time; frequently, their intentions seemed to counteract death metal directly. Death metal is ideologically driven, just like black metal, however, its worldview is a bit different. Death metal finds value in chaos, cataclysm, and death (both physical and spiritual, thus the term “death” metal,) and so reflects that value in its music. Like black metal, it confronts the listener with its values to create atmosphere by establishing an unsettling, harsh, yet immersive musical environment. However, death metal represents a level of negativity beyond what black metal offers: black metal can often leave the listener with some enchantment or illumination. Death metal, on the other hand, can be obscenely oppressive and brutal, and usually offers only bleakness in its wake; its apocalyptic art, frequently revealing some form of ultimate doom or underlying hopelessness to the listener. While death metal regularly attacks Christianity, it is in no way obligated to promote a replacement ideology, unlike black metal; it?s simply a reaction against Christian society in an attempt to unveil the masked chaos inherent within. Additionally, death metal evolved its own distinct aesthetic; death metal bands have certain musical traits in common, such as the roared/growled vocal delivery and chromatic riffwork. Black metal on the other hand isn’t restricted by any aesthetic adherence, just an ideological one (thus, there can be two bands that sound almost nothing alike, yet they can both be black metal.)
Doom Metal: Black metal, death metal, and doom metal are all examples of negative art, and so are all related at least on some level. Doom metal’s aim is to lull the listener into its own feelings of cheerlessness, gloom, and melancholy, and it accomplishes that goal with its sometimes painfully slow, bass-driven, weight-heavy style. Black metal often invokes those same emotions in the audience, and utilizes tools very similar to many doom metal bands, such as a desolate or cold guitar tone and a focus on minimalism. Doom metal’s mindset is quite broad: its communicative purpose is to reveal the doom of life—an unavoidable fate or destiny, or a ruinous and tragic end—to the audience. As a result, doom metal bands can pick and choose from any ideology that fits their purpose. Like black metal, doom metal usually holds an infatuation with the occult and the supernatural, using them as a means to their expressive end. However, doom metal bands are not anti-Christian by default; on the contrary, the occasional doom band can actually hint towards being pro-Christian. Obviously, that stance is quite opposite to the beliefs inherent in black metal.
 
This is amazing news, thanks for pointing it out.

If you are being sarcastic then fuck, I wonder if you are ever happy in life or always angry at everything? It must be so much fun talking with someone who believe he's always right :erk:
 
Which album? I have Unlock the Shrine, and I get so frustrated with the album because I like the actual songs, but it gets bogged down with way, way too many ambient/interlude pieces. I definitely end up zoning out when there's like 10 minutes between the good riffs on the album. The atmosphere didn't really appeal to me. If Rain Upon The Impure is different or executed better I will give it a chance, since I did like the other album to a degree. I just wish there were more actual songs.

RUTI is more similar to The furious Waves of Damnation demo but more atmospheric/doom oriented..... really hard to describe with words.... this release is so unique.

Does Keeper of Kalesin use those DMDS type vocals?

They had 3 differents vocalists so you might try checking different albums.... but the singer of DMDS actually sing on one EP.
 
anyone like Inquisition (Col)? Their album Into The Infernal Regions of The Ancient Cult is really damn good but I never see them get mentioned ever.
 
http://pwnt.co.uk/bm/



Metallica sounds nothing like Slayer sounds nothing like Laaz Rockit sounds nothing like Kreator sounds nothing like Sabbat sounds nothing like Overkill sounds nothing like Whiplash sounds nothing like Hellias sounds nothing like Coroner sounds nothing like Garlik De'th, yet they're all considered Thrash Metal. NEXT. FUCKING. TOPIC.

The difference between Metallica and Slayer are MUCH less vast than the difference between, say, Mercyful Fate and Darkthrone.
 
The difference between Metallica and Slayer are MUCH less vast than the difference between, say, Mercyful Fate and Darkthrone.

It doesn't matter how different they are, the point is that difference in sound doesn't make them in different genres. He's saying that changing history based on the emergence of newer bands is stupid. Think of it this way. Malevolent Creation is death metal. Now lets say ten years from now, with all the shit deathcore bands becoming popular(Job for a cowboy and such), Malevolent creation is named thrash metal, and only bands like Job for a Cowboy are called true death metal. Wouldn't that be kind of wrong?
 
Once again, the changes aren't as vast. Job For A Cowboy is a poor example, however, since most people don't even consider them death metal.