Black Metal.

[Zephyrus]

Later Emperor would count, but that's Emperor we're talking about.

 

[Zephyrus]

I would also include Crionics' Armageddon's Evolution. It's basically Anthems-worship (with a bit more death metal) and cleaner production.

 

[Matt]

Speaking of Emperor, I can't find my copy of IX. i is pizzed

 

[DarkBliss]

The Elite or allegedly musically gifted might say that Symphonic Black Metal is not Black Metal which may be true at times & I agree, but I don't think this applies to all Symphonic Black Metal.

Of course it doesn't apply to all Symphonic BM, and stop grouping people into castes with tags on their foreheads. It's annoying and even insulting, to an extent. Also, a person's opinion about any form of music should have nothing to do with how musically gifted he is.

 

[MasterOLightning]

Is it down there with Rap, Swing, & Pop-Punk??

I don't know what makes you think swing jazz is a low form of music. It was a major musical innovation, and some of the best musicians and composers of the 20th century were involved. Ellington compositions have more artistic merit than almost all metal music.

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

ShredHead is a fucking imbecile, what did you expect?

 

[Jimm O)))]

I used to be a pretty big fan of black metal but after a while I got tired of it. There are still some bands I like but most of them tend to lean towards the progressive/experimental side. Some bands I still listen to:

Ulver (though, I listen to all periods of their career)
Enslaved
Nokturnal Mortum
Winterthrall (local)
Ved Buens Ende
Drudkh
Direwolf (tech-black metal)

 

[cookiecutter]

Good symphonic black metal isn't clean, as it depends on atmosphere just as much as regular black metal. To pull it off with a clean, modern production requires a hell of an effort from the songwriting, which is difficult and thus there are those who fail, as you are talking about.

Even the stuff you've given me sounds clean. I just like the much rawer guitar sound. I am not trying to equate cleanliness with lack of atmosphere, just production sound. I also don't want to bash their songwriting, it's just that in order to be symphonic, you have to write songs that are very "large" seeming (hence "symphonic", whereas I prefer minimalism.

BWAHAHA! I was trying to have a little bit of a sense of humor with the nihilistic comment. I read that it's someone who rejects traditional values & believes that our existence is utterly useless (dictionary) - so basically that sounds like a pretty negative person to me.

Ah, the good old "I'll pass off my stupid comment as a joke" routine. Think for a second next time.

 

[Zephyrus]

Even the stuff you've given me sounds clean. I just like the much rawer guitar sound. I am not trying to equate cleanliness with lack of atmosphere, just production sound. I also don't want to bash their songwriting, it's just that in order to be symphonic, you have to write songs that are very "large" seeming (hence "symphonic", whereas I prefer minimalism.

Fair enough. I see your preference for minimalism transcends the use of keyboards, as evidenced by your liking of Xasthur and Alatyr.

 

[KevenZ]

Does anyone here have anything bad to say about Darkspace??? I've been wanting to check them out. People can praise a band to hell & back & that doesn't mean I'm going to like them, but if no one has anything necessarily bad to say about them I think I'm on a better track.

I love them but I think they could have a slightly better production in my opinion... a production similar to limbonic art - ad noctum would be excellent for them.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I'd like to hear about that.

Well, with all of the talk a while back about black metal not being used as entertainment and instead as a viable "art form" in and of itself, I tended to agree in some senses. I tend to prefer more obscure black metal (with cheesy lyrics if need be) as opposed to "fun" stuff like this. It figures that they are black 'n roll I guess, though...so at least they didn't try to play uberkvlt raw production BM with sing-song pedestrian "terrorist" lyrics.

Those motives being what? (as said I'm not really sure yet myself)

Well, most people consider Latin to be obscure, and you have Ondskapt with Draco Sit Mihi Dux (Ondskapt is Acerbus' main project, but I know you know that...just providing context) as a title and with Roman numeral song titles. The lyrics to that album are rather enigmatic and metaphorical, using Satan as an allegory and all that, so I appreciate it more when taken in stride with the obscure sounding music (though I don't particularly enjoy the album anyway ). Like I said earlier, I guess it is better that they are using the rather ridiculous "9/11 was cool people should do it again and we hate humans by the way" with "black 'n roll" as opposed to "tr00 BM."

I found the last track worked as a culmination of all the elements and hints throughout the album that point to influence from such a style, it wasn't exactly out of place. Again I found that track similar to what Meads Of Asphodel did on their EP last year.

I failed to see the connection, but I'm glad you can find positive (if out-of-character) highlights among a lackluster album. Can't fault you for that.

 

[ohiogrinder]

Ah, the good old "I'll pass off my stupid comment as a joke" routine. Think for a second next time.

TIACN does that all the time, but nobody calls him out for it.

 

[Lunar Descent]

I love them but I think they could have a slightly better production in my opinion.

Shit production is BM.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Thanks for your fantastic and pressing addition to this thread.

 

[Thasis]

Shitty production does define a lot of black metals "core" or should we say "founding area". And is it not true that we commonly as black metal fans reject many of the bands that have cleaner productions? Not saying I agree with this, but it tends to be a trend.

 

[KevenZ]

I don't like ultra low-fi stuff..... and also hate super clean production.

I think there is a middle that band should focus on.

 

[Thasis]

I like anything that apeases to my ears, which ranges from ultr lo-fi to super clean and all the inbetween, so I find my balance that way.

 

[~Derek~]

Speaking of Black N Roll, do you consider Black N Roll to be actual Black Metal? I do but I have a wide space for what can be called BM, like current Dimmu Borgir for example.

 

[Alter]

Its just a way to describe the way a band sounds. Not a sub-genre.

 

[cookiecutter]

Fair enough. I see your preference for minimalism transcends the use of keyboards, as evidenced by your liking of Xasthur and Alatyr.

But these bands tend to use keyboards in a minimalistic way. Alatyr probably has the most prominent keyboards, and the most complex thing they do is a simple melody. Xasthur's keyboards are also primarily background. I guess my main thing with keyboards is that they not be played like a piano.