Black Metal.
- Thread starter ROBL2500
- Start date
AgoliantLives
Aint that a daisy?
I can't buy this argument because without adding something to the core, everyone accuses modern BM of doing what's been done already. In fact, this is exactly what's going on. I understand that true BM has standards; one of them being evoking particular emotions, but if a progressive "BM album that was drenched in neoclassical keyboards and wanky solos and harmonizing female vocals" evokes the same emotions and has the same atmosphere Burzum does, that album is BM.
unknown
fuck ftagn
I would mostly agree with this.
and Anti is at least decent. I remember checking out one of their cds not too long ago, and enjoying it, but not finding anything amazing about it.
Teh Grimace
New Metal Member
exactly.
but they don't.
ever.
ever.
every time i get convinced that some BM thingy from post-96 or so is teh gr8est and i give it a chance, it's weak. i used to think that i had convinced myself of the old stuff's superiority cos i've heard it so much. finally i gave up. maybe others have hope for improving black metal. i say leave it alone. don't change it, don't even play it, just listen to it and be influenced by it. don't try to claim to be upholding the tradition or something, and don't bastardize it by trying to justify tacking on extra shit to something that was perfect. and get some fucking necro production, goddamit.
fuck off teh nowadays BM.....!!!
Seeing what this discussion has become, I absolutely *must* throw in my 2(5) cents.
I think we can all agree that black metal will never again sound like it did during its "heyday" (whether you think that was its heyday or not is an entirely different matter.) Whether or not that's a good or a bad thing is entirely up to the listener. There must've been something in the fucking fjords, because those bands captured a sound that is entirely unique to that time and place, excepting a handful or two of other bands operating more or less around the same era. Those bands that try their damndest to make black metal in direct homage to the classic 2nd wave bands, again excepting a handful thereof, typically bore me to tears, because pure imitation is just that. It is solely those groups, like the ones Mort Divine has (so correctly) lauded that are genuinely interesting. Tried and true or not, to these ears those bands are coming closer than anyone ever has to recapturing the feel and spirit of the releases of the early-mid 90s, or are at least leaving my dick in the dirt in never failing to innovate.
However, it seems to me that this has become nit-picking label and genre, and all of the trappings and restrictions involved therewith, in which case you're all retarded.
@ Teh Grimace:
So are you saying that the new bands that are doing this thing a bit differently shouldn't even bother because black metal as a genre mustn't be tampered with, and once it is changed to a certain point it is no longer black metal? Or that black metal is and will ever be confined to the period in which it truly flowered (withered?) most, and that the new-school simply shouldn't be called as such? To simplify, are you saying that tr00 black metal died with the 2nd wave, or that once so much is done to it, it's no longer black?
I think we can all agree that black metal will never again sound like it did during its "heyday" (whether you think that was its heyday or not is an entirely different matter.) Whether or not that's a good or a bad thing is entirely up to the listener. There must've been something in the fucking fjords, because those bands captured a sound that is entirely unique to that time and place, excepting a handful or two of other bands operating more or less around the same era. Those bands that try their damndest to make black metal in direct homage to the classic 2nd wave bands, again excepting a handful thereof, typically bore me to tears, because pure imitation is just that. It is solely those groups, like the ones Mort Divine has (so correctly) lauded that are genuinely interesting. Tried and true or not, to these ears those bands are coming closer than anyone ever has to recapturing the feel and spirit of the releases of the early-mid 90s, or are at least leaving my dick in the dirt in never failing to innovate.
However, it seems to me that this has become nit-picking label and genre, and all of the trappings and restrictions involved therewith, in which case you're all retarded.
@ Teh Grimace:
So are you saying that the new bands that are doing this thing a bit differently shouldn't even bother because black metal as a genre mustn't be tampered with, and once it is changed to a certain point it is no longer black metal? Or that black metal is and will ever be confined to the period in which it truly flowered (withered?) most, and that the new-school simply shouldn't be called as such? To simplify, are you saying that tr00 black metal died with the 2nd wave, or that once so much is done to it, it's no longer black?
Teh Grimace
New Metal Member
yes to all of that. but i'll add that my beliefs are based in the apparant fact, and i'll say fact til i'm proven otherwise, that the circumstances that spawned those early innovators can never be replicated if for no other reason than that any "new" BM must be aware of "old" BM, but those 2nd wave bands were totally un-self-concious in what they were doing... it was almost like God or Satan or some fucking such filled these kids with otherworldly inspiration... that the end product seemed so much greater than the sum of it's musicial components and inspirations... drawing a map from early Bathory or Celtic Frost to Hvis Lyset Tar Oss and Transilvanian Hunger in well less than a decade is such a massive artistic leap, there's almost no way to explain it....
the real point is that i can't explain why the new bands aren't doing it right, just like i can't put into words what is so brilliant about the early bands, but don't mistake that for the discrepancy not existing...
the real point is that i can't explain why the new bands aren't doing it right, just like i can't put into words what is so brilliant about the early bands, but don't mistake that for the discrepancy not existing...
Evil?
omghaxlol!1
nothing is "subjective". there's no such thing as "taste" or "preference", there are just different states of ignorance. all things have inherent qualities, and one's perception is based in one's capability of interpreting these qualities.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever read.
That being said I agree with what you had to say about the true form of BM. It is SO about the ideology. Without the ideology early BM would not be what it is/was. That is not to say that some modern BM is not enjoyable to listen to or lacks any artistic merit, it is just not the same.
That is why both:
and
are so wrong.
Wires & Waves
New Metal Member
- Feb 4, 2006
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id like to see you justify this
i wish people would stop trying to claim that art they dont like is somehow not art
define "art"
edit: i like how everyone agrees theres been a few good releases since 1996 yet nobody can agree on what they are. many people are going to think wolves in the throne room, agalloch etc are just as vapid as the taakes and deathspell omegas that you claim can't match the quality of the 2nd wave. that alone doesn't mean you're wrong, but you'd think at least it'd give you enough perspective on the subjectivity of your judgement to temper your arrogance a little.
edit2: you anusites are fucking dorks
Cythraul
Active Member
- Dec 10, 2003
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Hubster
...
Once you wade through the current day Black Metal, and know how to get to the good material, I find it becomes perfectly clear that there is still fucking fantastic Black Metal around today.
As much as I love the proto, first and second waves, I'm not going to stagnate at those points. I love Black Metal, I don't care what fucking period it's from, I want it to be good and true to the Black Metal ideology. Period.
As much as I love the proto, first and second waves, I'm not going to stagnate at those points. I love Black Metal, I don't care what fucking period it's from, I want it to be good and true to the Black Metal ideology. Period.
Oh and I would like to add (since I didn't mention any "Old School" in my post above) a couple to the list
Mercyful Fate
HellHammer
Bathory
Celtic Frost
Mayhem
Sabbat
Necrodeath
Destruction
GoatLord
Samael
Deliverance
Blasphemy
Well more than a couple...
Black Metal has many roots and even though they are more known now as DOOM or the Grandfathers of Metal, I would put Black Sabbath up there as the first. I mean the ones that scared the shit out of you!
Venom also even though they are quite jokey they were quite good as well as the first couple Slayer's. (I know Slayer is more thought of as a thrash band among alot of my metal pals here .....So I am expecting to hear it on that one....hope you took my point well on that one and not tooo serious)
Mercyful Fate
HellHammer
Bathory
Celtic Frost
Mayhem
Sabbat
Necrodeath
Destruction
GoatLord
Samael
Deliverance
Blasphemy
Well more than a couple...
Black Metal has many roots and even though they are more known now as DOOM or the Grandfathers of Metal, I would put Black Sabbath up there as the first. I mean the ones that scared the shit out of you!Venom also even though they are quite jokey they were quite good as well as the first couple Slayer's. (I know Slayer is more thought of as a thrash band among alot of my metal pals here .....So I am expecting to hear it on that one....hope you took my point well on that one and not tooo serious)
ÎÏεβοÏ
Member
Art: A form of expressive transcendent communication through creation of something of aesthetic beauty.
Entertainment: Something created to please masses and nothing more; absolute shit.
Burzum = Art.
Slipknot = Absolute shit (Entertainment).
I wish you idiots that don't understand what art is would stop preaching your lovey dovey accept all bullshit.
Astrum
Psion
Hubster
...
Wires & Waves
New Metal Member
- Feb 4, 2006
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It's only "lovey dovey accept all bullshit" if you, in your ceaseless stupidity, continue to conflate "art" with "good". Acknowledging Slipknot as art does not mean Slipknot is good art.
You're operating on a definition of "art" that seems entirely personal to you. Sure, the meaning of "art" is contentious, but there is at least consensus (which is of course the essential root of verbal communication) between anyone seriously interested in discussing the idea that its definition is quite separate from subjective judgements of quality.
I posit that what we're really dealing with here is that the term "art" holds some exalted symbolic worth for you, which is irreconcilable with the fact that bad art (under the consensus definition) exists, and so you're attempting to redefine the term to suit the juvenile, emotional symbolic worth you've attached to it. You're confusing symbols - containers for meaning - with meaning itself, which is pretty fuckin' funny given that it's one of the things you ANUS folk, as nihilists, are supposed to oppose.
Mort Divine
Shrine Maiden of the In-Crowd
But you see ... I very much appreciate Burzum, Darkthrone, Immortal, Ildjarn, and Bathory. Burzum and Ildjarn are some of the best second wave bands, and Filosofem and Forest Poetry are albums that I absolutely love for the enchantment and primitive yet visceral emotions they evoke. They are no doubt classics, I do not for one second wish to say they are bad, not at all because they are fantastic. All of those bands have great worth.
I just enjoy more than the "classics" and the reasons are the same, the music is great and it produces a feeling of visceral enchantment, black metal is easily the most expressive form of metal and that is why I love it.
If I can find the same base emotions in Caina's music that I can Burzum, it isn't me listening to music just for entertainment it is me perceiving, no, interpreting that music differently.
ÎÏεβοÏ
Member
Are you kidding me?
I think I shall ignore any morons that so much as mention ANUS when talking about music. Fuck off.
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