Black Metal.

crimsonfloyd said:
Why do they need to maintain the black metal elements? There are many great bands that allow their sound to continuously evolve.
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Because there's a difference between growth and alteration. Bands are certainly capable of expanding and improving upon their sound without completely changing it (Anaal Nathrakh, Portal, Ulcerate spring to mind). The problem is you get bands that manage to blend genres in a compelling way... and then they drop half of the equation and turn into just another post-rock band.

The whole dang reason Lantlos or Alcest were so alluring is the way they meshed shoegaze elements with blistering black metal. That's a rough balance to strike. Think of it like having a perfectly made creme brulee, and then the chef decides to just scrap the caramel part and make custard. Okay, that's wonderful, but I came to this restaurant for the appealing blend, not just half of it.

I wouldn't be any happier if Lantlos or whoever completely dropped the shoegaze and went into straight necro "trve" black metal either. It's not about that. It's about changing what made the band great to begin with, and the fact is that most of 'em aren't good enough at either half of the equation by itself to be particularly exemplary at it. There are a shitload of post-rock bands that can do post-rock WAY better than Lantlos or Alcest ever will, but none of them made albums like .Neon or Ecailles de Lune.

Hopefully Ameseours and Les Discrets keep it strong.
 
I see where you're coming from; I guess I just don't feel as compelled to see a band stay the same, especially considering Neige left the band. I really don't think Herbst is much of a growler, so I understand if he wants to change his sound. And I'll wait to hear the album before deciding if it's better or worse than other post rock (if it even is pure post rock to begin with).
 
I'm a huge fan of bands mixing it up. There's no rule out there that states Lantlos must sound extreme most of the time, but when you've come to expect some extremeness and there isn't any it can be quite disappointing. Especially when a fan is buying the album blind because they expect more of the same to some degree.
 
SomeGuyDude said:
I'll tell you what drives me fucking crazy.

Every black metal band out there that incorporates interesting prog/post elements in it seems to, over time, strip the black metal away and turn into a prog/post-rock band. You get a couple sweet albums with a nice blend of the styles but then everyone goes all Alcest or Opeth (not black, I know) and says "hey fuck what made us original and interesting".
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I've always hated that shit with passion. black metal is supposed to dangerous, not appeal to kids who were wearing Pavement shirts ten years ago. at least the indie kids got out of the bestial shit as soon as they got into it (most likely because bands like Blasphemy and Impaled Nazarene don't cut corners when it comes to pissing off progressive/socialist d-bags)
 
While I understand SomeGuyDude's frustrations, I also see it, at times, from a different angle. The stripping of "metal" elements is a sort of honesty. Opeth's Heritage may have been a terrible record, but at least Mikael finally got around to acknowledging that he really hasn't given two shits about metal for a decade now. (Thus at least allowing for a somewhat genuine and focused experience, even if it's still not a great one)

Edit: For the record, I'm not saying Heritage is better than, say, Ghost Reveries. Just a little more honest ;)
 
The thing is, I'm not convinced it's honest. It feels like pandering. Like they go "oh hey we're getting more mainstream attention thanks to our non-metal elements, let's keep focusing on them and get even MORE attention."

Someone wrote an article a while ago about Opeth's Heritage and how it felt like Mikael's last stab at making his band a headliner, and that the best way to do that was to go full-prog a la Mastodon and shed all the death metal elements that were keeping Opeth in more "niche" status.

I don't believe that any band with non-metal proclivities would shoehorn metal in there if they didn't feel that was an integral part of the sound. It's not like if you're a post-rock band you're going to get better notice by throwing death metal in there (as en vogue as blackgaze may be, it's not like they're headlining Ozzfest or Warped Tour).

Honest, to me, was Opeth's Damnation/Deliverance combo. That was honest. That was the band diving squarely into the sides of their sound and running them to the maximum. Damnation is still Opeth's apex in terms of being "soft". Heritage was just watering down the sound to be more palatable to the SXSW crowd.
 
I remember going to Warped Tour in 2001 when I was 19, different times back then, almost all straight punk rock bands (and one rap act, which got a bunch of skinheads in the peanut gallery flipping them off), now every band looks like Motley Crue (for the record, I like Motley Crue, but these bands sound like tough guy metalcore with whiny vocals. not cool). the further I got into hardcore, the more I liked metal, of course, I like old 80s HC and shit, but after hearing grindcore bands like Assuck and Discordance Axis, its kind of pointless. paved the way for me getting into death metal and black metal.
 
Yes they do, NinjaSweater. A fine observation! II was one of my favorite releases of 2011.

SomeGuyDude said:
There are a shitload of post-rock bands that can do post-rock WAY better than Lantlos or Alcest ever will, but none of them made albums like .Neon or Ecailles de Lune.

... etc.
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Why look at any single album as a permanent direction? Maybe Lantlos just want to try making a god damn shoegaze album. Boris does shit like this all the time and no one gives it a second thought.
 
Boris is fucking annoying.

And these bands are moving away from metal, its not some sudden direction change, they're all stripping away their metal parts until they release "that album" in which there's no longer metal presence.

Anyway, Obsidian Gate has released a new album. Has anyone heard it? I'm interested bit not willing to pay the $30 to import it.
 
SomeGuyDude said:
Okay I've been out of the game for a while. Has any solid black/doom come out lately? I'm looking for shit with nice big production, I wanna put these $300 headphones through their paces.
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I just recalled this tonight. People like to shit on Velvet Cacoon, but P aa Opal Poere Pr. 33 was totally overlooked by a lot of people who would probably like it. Listening to it is like being seasick and dizzy and far from home. It's super atmospheric, but there's sort of a swing and groove that would feel more familiar on a stoner doom record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbt74NqDVI

And anyone who has forwhatever reason not yet listened to Genevieve in the dark alone, preferably by a large body of water, is forever doing themselves a disservice. That album might be my favorite solo experience with music ever.
 
MasterOLightning said:
I just recalled this tonight. People like to shit on Velvet Cacoon, but P aa Opal Poere Pr. 33 was totally overlooked by a lot of people who would probably like it. Listening to it is like being seasick and dizzy and far from home. It's super atmospheric, but there's sort of a swing and groove that would feel more familiar on a stoner doom record.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zbt74NqDVI

And anyone who has forwhatever reason not yet listened to Genevieve in the dark alone, preferably by a large body of water, is forever doing themselves a disservice. That album might be my favorite solo experience with music ever.
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Nice! I thought I was the only bleeding heart VC fan on here. Genevieve is a masterpiece. Paa Opal is nowhere near as good but is still a solid record with an amazing atmosphere. The songwriting is less consistent though. Atropine is amazing dark ambient. The first Clair Cassis record is very good as well. (Their EPs are WAY too underdeveloped).
 
SomeGuyDude said:
The thing is, I'm not convinced it's honest. It feels like pandering. Like they go "oh hey we're getting more mainstream attention thanks to our non-metal elements, let's keep focusing on them and get even MORE attention."

Someone wrote an article a while ago about Opeth's Heritage and how it felt like Mikael's last stab at making his band a headliner, and that the best way to do that was to go full-prog a la Mastodon and shed all the death metal elements that were keeping Opeth in more "niche" status.

I don't believe that any band with non-metal proclivities would shoehorn metal in there if they didn't feel that was an integral part of the sound. It's not like if you're a post-rock band you're going to get better notice by throwing death metal in there (as en vogue as blackgaze may be, it's not like they're headlining Ozzfest or Warped Tour).

Honest, to me, was Opeth's Damnation/Deliverance combo. That was honest. That was the band diving squarely into the sides of their sound and running them to the maximum. Damnation is still Opeth's apex in terms of being "soft". Heritage was just watering down the sound to be more palatable to the SXSW crowd.
Click to expand...

Heritage was great as was D/D and everything prior. As you said, it's honest. The trash of Opeth's catalog are the two albums prior in Ghost Reveries and Watershed... you can totally see the lack of inspiration on those records.
 
I dunno dude. 'The Light that Dwells in Rotten Wood' was really good, but I think 'Hail Wind and Hewn Oak' had something a little more special. Maybe it was the more folky feel. Their demo 'Into the Archaic' is a little rough around the edges, but I think it's right up their with their other releases. Truly an impressive band from Maine. The new one's gonna be called 'Believe in No Coming Shore'. Can't wait :rock:
 
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