Black Metal.

[wagontrain]

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...

I find myself wondering what your thoughts on Velvet Cacoon are. I am guessing that, theoretically, it is not possible to fully enjoy, absorb, comprehend, or philosophize about their music, since their entire existence was meant as a joke and thus their message, at best, nonexistent.

Nevermind that they made incredible music.

 

[skeptik]

Next time you want to summarize an argument with some "sarcasm", perhaps you should actually read said argument. Or just forget about it all together.

Or I can feel free to trivialize this essentially trivial argument by trolling and not reading every word of it simply because it's there. I've seen and participated in this argument a dozen times, so forgive me for being less than entirely sincere and eager to do it again. I've been gone for a week, so I've missed a lot, and catching up on the ins and outs of this particular dialogue does not interest me much.

Because...

...language and music are incomparable mediums, for starters. Though, if you want to use the poor execution as grounds for condemning a work, you might want to take that Countess album out of your signature. Unless of course that album is just background music for you. Regardless, poorly translating an idea from one's native language to a more universally understood language involves sufficiently different principles and qualities to negate a comparison to a soloist that just isn't very good at playing his instrument, and I don't think it needs explaining. Lastly, oftentimes the mere vocabulary employed in constructing song titles is sufficiently descriptive enough to properly engage a work, and broken English does not negate this. That said, I've never heard the band in question, but it's certainly not because of a bit of Engrish.

 

[YdoUneedAname?]

Do any of you like Weakling?

 

[Hatebreeder]

Is Sahg any good? I saw their CD for only $8, but I was reluctant to buy it because I haven't heard any of their songs.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

I find myself wondering what your thoughts on Velvet Cacoon are. I am guessing that, theoretically, it is not possible to fully enjoy, absorb, comprehend, or philosophize about their music, since their entire existence was meant as a joke and thus their message, at best, nonexistent.

Nevermind that they made incredible music.

If you think Velvet Cacoon's message is "nonexistent" then I don't think you have looked into them very deeply at all. They are certainly some of the more notable artists to emerge in the last few years. They are an interesting example to bring up, as if you focus only on their music you are missing out on what makes them worth a deeper look - sure, the music was at the very least competent, but the musical aspect of Velvet Cacoon was only a part of what they were about, and probably a secondary part. Supporting the notion that their music wasn't all that important to them is the fact that they didn't even bother to write much of it through either plagiarism or imagined demos. They were an artistic experiment not so much in the musical sense but in marketing creativity and media manipulation, designed to spread political and philosophical musings and expose the scene at its most credulous. Finntroll is one thing, but here you have the other meaning of "troll metal."

This is what I mean when I say focusing on only music misses something - you could write a ten page essay on this band and their artistic endeavors, but if you were to ignore everything but the sounds that come out of your speakers when you put on Dextronaut you'd be hard pressed to get that far, or come up with something anywhere near as interesting.

Or I can feel free to trivialize this essentially trivial argument by trolling and not reading every word of it simply because it's there. I've seen and participated in this argument a dozen times, so forgive me for being less than entirely sincere and eager to do it again. I've been gone for a week, so I've missed a lot, and catching up on the ins and outs of this particular dialogue does not interest me much.

Fine, so long as you don't mind me correcting you when you misrepresent my position.

...language and music are incomparable mediums, for starters. Though, if you want to use the poor execution as grounds for condemning a work, you might want to take that Countess album out of your signature. Unless of course that album is just background music for you.

There is a point where great intentions can overcome inept execution, and another where poor execution hinders the artist's expression of their intent.

Regardless, poorly translating an idea from one's native language to a more universally understood language involves sufficiently different principles and qualities to negate a comparison to a soloist that just isn't very good at playing his instrument, and I don't think it needs explaining. Lastly, oftentimes the mere vocabulary employed in constructing song titles is sufficiently descriptive enough to properly engage a work, and broken English does not negate this. That said, I've never heard the band in question, but it's certainly not because of a bit of Engrish.

So what are these principles that make the comparison invalid? In both cases the artist is trying to convey an idea that is lost or at least diminished due to inexperience with the medium. Seems simple enough to me.

Is Sahg any good? I saw their CD for only $8, but I was reluctant to buy it because I haven't heard any of their songs.

They're great live. Wrong thread though.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

more people should listen to Odal and Nocternity

Odal


theres a new Obtest song on myspace, but of course myspace is such a shit site and songs never work.

 

[skeptik]

Fine, so long as you don't mind me correcting you when you misrepresent my position.

Of course, though I would hardly consider it necessary to rebut an obvious jest.

So what are these principles that make the comparison invalid? In both cases the artist is trying to convey an idea that is lost or at least diminished due to inexperience with the medium. Seems simple enough to me.

Musical approach is a universal medium. Anyone that speaks any language can compose the same piece of music because there are universal techniques to accomplish these. Transferring a musical idea in your head out into the real world is just a matter of knowing how to play the instrument. Translating a verbal idea from one's native language to an entirely different language is far trickier. It's like trying to string out a guitar melody on a keyboard when you have little experience playing the keyboard.

Basically, what I'm saying is that poor English is far more forgivable than decidedly poor musicianship as far as hindering the greater work is concerned, because musical failure is invariably detrimental, whereas verbal failure is more easy to overcome. Language is a versatile medium that allows one to decipher meaning where that meaning is confused and muddled. This is far more difficult to accomplish with notes.

 

[Evil?]

I have Onyx by Nocternity on vinyl and it is pretty cool. What else would you recommend J?

 

[~Derek~]

What's the purpose in getitng vinyl? It's not like people still use record players, but hearing black metal on a turn table would be interesting.

 

[MasterOLightning]

I still listen to vinyls a few times a week. Part of the appeal is the artwork and collectibility. Some albums sound very good on vinyl. Other times the mastering is poor.

 

[Evil?]

What's the purpose in getitng vinyl? It's not like people still use record players, but hearing black metal on a turn table would be interesting.

I still use a record player!

Vinyl ist Krieg.

 

[J.]

I have Onyx by Nocternity on vinyl and it is pretty cool. What else would you recommend J?

A Fallen Unicorn

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

What's the purpose in getitng vinyl? It's not like people still use record players, but hearing black metal on a turn table would be interesting.

I have a turntable...

 

[skeptik]

Pretty much any record released prior to the digital age will sound infinitely better on vinyl. Vinyl has a very warm, natural, organic sound that cannot be replicated on CD. Oftentimes the way that CDs are mastered today, however, end up sounding very poor on vinyl without an entirely separate mastering job suited toward the vinyl format, and very few larger record companies are willing to do that these days, so vinyl releases of newer Nuclear Blast, Spinefarm, Century Media, etc. releases will most likely have a better sound on a digital media.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Noise is awesome on vinyl too...it helps that in the noise scene, if someone puts out a 12" record by you, it pretty much means you are very established and likely to be great in one way or another. Not always the case, but it helps.

 

[~Derek~]

^So are there newer type record players being made post-2000 made for newer vinyl releases and where can I get one at? I'm actually surprised so many of you still use record players, I thought this was just the age of Ipods and CD's and Vinylsd are just a thing of a collector's item.

 

[Zephyrus]

I saw a record player for cheap at a yard sale the other day. I said to myself, is it worth collecting vinyl records if I could play them? Then I thought better of it. Collecting vinyl records is nice, but my bugdet is tight enough just buying CD's, that collecting records is too much a financial burden for now.

Too bad for me, I guess, but I'd rather have more music playing in my ears than nice big square album covers sitting on my shelves.

 

[Evil?]

^So are there newer type record players being made post-2000 made for newer vinyl releases and where can I get one at? I'm actually surprised so many of you still use record players, I thought this was just the age of Ipods and CD's and Vinylsd are just a thing of a collector's item.

I am surprised you are so unaware.

Record player technology is advancing all the time. Hell, I just posted a link to a $17,000 turntable in a thread the other day.

Good turntables are as sought after as a good cd player/amplifier or any other stereo gear.

You can get a turntable just about anywhere like Bestbuy or circuit city. just not v3ery good ones most times. I will post some links later.

 

[~Derek~]

^Same here, I'm just going to continue buying CD's, but I really want to hear black metal on a turntable sometime, there's a record player here at my house, but it doesn't work. What people into other kinds of music buy vinyl instea dof hip hop heads? Or is this some kind of underground metal phenomenom?

 

[wagontrain]

Do any of you like Weakling?

Dead as Dreams is my absolute favorite metal album of all time. I would estimate I have listened to it over 150 times.

My Weakling shirt is my favorite shirt I own, and it's going to need replacing soon because I wear it constantly.

So yeah, I like Weakling.