Black Metal.

[~Derek~]

^Burzum/Aske has the best songs form Burzum that I've heard, I rezlly want that CD, Filosofem is next from the songs i heard.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Burzum/Aske has his best songs, but Hvis Lyset Tar Oss is the best album (though a lot of people say Filosofem, which I guess I could settle for also).

 

[cookiecutter]

^I seen Nachtmystium is on Century Media Records today when I looked at their profile on the Metal Archives, does that mean Insticnt Decay was distributed by Century Media? Cause if so, it may be easier to buy.

Instinct: Decay is distributed by Southern Lord

Art is only as good as the ideas it presents, which is why Zephyrus is wrong.

Satyricon never really did anything truly worthwhile, they only produced some above average black metal with some flutes. Hardly "essential".

I think you are missing Zephyrus' larger point.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

"Essential" is a word that gets thrown around awful casually. Really, essential black metal would be maybe 3-5 albums that you could show someone with no knowledge of the genre and they would get the broad picture of what the genre is about through established and influential classics, not recent trends, oddities and developments. So you would have maybe Bathory, Burzum, and Mayhem, perhaps Darkthrone and Emperor and then you need to think about drawing the line.

 

[Mort Divine]

Yeah, I don't think anyone needs to say that the essential albums are the best, just that they're ones everyone who enjoys the style or is looking into needs to hear so that they can get the overall and general picture of the style.

 

[cookiecutter]

But is not the best music the one that should represent the genre? Obviously this is a hairy issue because best is subjective of course and genre mixing would ruin things.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

And what better way to define the best music than that which is the most historically significant, developmentally important, influential, innovative, etc.? Unless you have some other measures of quality by which flavour of the month band X beats Bathory that merits consideration.

 

[Mort Divine]

Personal enjoyment is most important for me, when it comes down to listening to and enjoying music I don't care about the influences the band had.

 

[Death Aflame]

And what better way to define the best music than that which is the most historically significant, developmentally important, influential, innovative, etc.? Unless you have some other measures of quality by which flavour of the month band X beats Bathory that merits consideration.

The problem with this is that it can only take you so far. How does one decide if Burzum is better than Bathory (or vice versa) if not purely through personal taste? It would be fairly ridiculous to try and empirically say one was more significant than the other. Sure, with your method you can narrow down the elite of the genre to some relative degree of precision but from their subjectivity becomes the guiding light in terms of determining that X is better than Z.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Personal enjoyment is most important for me, when it comes down to listening to and enjoying music I don't care about the influences the band had.

That's super, but doesn't help much if we are trying to define the concept of "essential" in an even vaguely objective sense.

The problem with this is that it can only take you so far. How does one decide if Burzum is better than Bathory (or vice versa) if not purely through personal taste? It would be fairly ridiculous to try and empirically say one was more significant than the other. Sure, with your method you can narrow down the elite of the genre to some relative degree of precision but from their subjectivity becomes the guiding light in terms of determining that X is better than Z.

You got a better idea? I don't see any need to narrow it down precisely ("Burzum is of 3% higher quality than Bathory"). But it is useful to say "By this criteria, these are the most essential black metal albums." Far more objective and practical for a third party to go by than saying "By my personal tastes, these are the most essential black metal albums" - such a statement is useless to anyone but the person making it.

 

[Mort Divine]

That's super, but doesn't help much if we are trying to define the concept of "essential" in an even vaguely objective sense.

I'm not working towards that goal in that post, I was simply saying that I disagreed with the idea of influence and relevance automatically making something the best.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

I'm not working towards that goal in that post, I was simply saying that I disagreed with the idea of influence and relevance automatically making something the best.

Sounded more like you disagree with the idea of influence and relevance making something automatically your favourite. All I'm suggesting is that influence and relevance make something the "best" when we designate influence and relevance as desirable qualities in the music. And that such standards are more universally applicable than personal preference.

 

[Skepticism]

K, well it was my mistake a couple pages back, when one said essential black metal, I didn't know he was referring to a certain time period in the genre, particularly second wave, so ignore what I said about essential.

 

[Skepticism]

I understand that metal newbies who think Job for a Cowboy and Drudkh created death/black metal will have a hard time with this.

I love Drudlh and all, but don't even let that Job For a Cowboy and any other core shit come near me.

 

[Hatebreeder]

Personal enjoyment is most important for me, when it comes down to listening to and enjoying music I don't care about the influences the band had.

.

I rate bands by how it sounds. I don't care if they were the propagators of an entire genre, if I don't like the music, then I will not listen to it. This is how I can get away with rarely listening to Black Sabbath.

 

[Skepticism]

That is how I get away with rarely listening to Mayhem.

 

[Hatebreeder]

That is how I get away with rarely listening to Mayhem.

BLASPHEMER!

 

[Wires & Waves]

i dont give a shit about influence, the fact is that the bands that innovated are typically just better than those that followed. there are exceptions to this, and where it's the case i wouldn't consider an influential band that has been surpassed to be 'essential'. venom is influential, but not essential imo. same with von and sarcofago. i probably couldnt say mayhem aren't essential, but i would certain de-emphasize their essentiality relative to the other norwegian 2nd wave bands for the same reason.

i guess this is easier for me though because i'm listening for very specific qualities of complex melodicism and structure in my black metal whereas some of you just want to hear some evil sounding dissonant shit which explains why boring bands like blut aus nord or peste noire can even be respected i guess

 

[Rabid Headbanger]

BLASPHEMER!

Shouldn't that be a good thing?

 

[Crimson Velvet]

i dont give a shit about influence, the fact is that the bands that innovated are typically just better than those that followed. there are exceptions to this, and where it's the case i wouldn't consider an influential band that has been surpassed to be 'essential'. venom is influential, but not essential imo. same with von and sarcofago. i probably couldnt say mayhem aren't essential, but i would certain de-emphasize their essentiality relative to the other norwegian 2nd wave bands for the same reason.

i guess this is easier for me though because i'm listening for very specific qualities of complex melodicism and structure in my black metal whereas some of you just want to hear some evil sounding dissonant shit which explains why boring bands like blut aus nord or peste noire can even be respected i guess

Excellent post! Everyone, take note!