Black Metal.

[skeptik]

http://aversesefira.blogspot.com/
http://aversesefira.blogspot.com/2009/07/attention-to-all-weekenders-hipsters.html

First off, I'd like to know who you consider relevant today within the scope of the genre, because, especially with their last two albums, I feel that Averse Sefira ranks among the most relevant metal bands today in terms of their lyrical, ideological, and musical conceptions.

I think that, taken with a more read understanding of the band's principles and given what this statement is, which is a blog post of chest beating, paying homage to those who take their craft seriously and produce music that is representative of the principles that have been linked to the genre from the beginning, there is no reason to take Wrath's words as somehow greatly absurd. It was, foremost, simply a bit of gloating about the return of some excellent seminal musicians who have actually produced work that is worthy of their legacy and a celebration of those who have extended that legacy. I think that Averse Sefira has been and continues to be an important extension of that legacy. Anybody who has invested as much passion and conviction into their craft as they have will probably find things such as Dethklok and Arsonists Get All the Girls as a symptom of something having gone wrong, of an overabundance of control within metal by people who don't take it as seriously or that don't represent it in the ways that some feel that they should. I actually didn't expect to see the reactions that were given here. I wonder what the reactions would have been if the perennial jester, Fenriz, had said it. I thought that people would respond favorably to an artist taking what they do seriously and saluting those who share their position, unless they felt they were under attack in their statement.

Edit: Why does it feel as though I'm under attack for not thinking that Averse Sefira is a bunch of faggots?

you can't be serious. You're completely off the mark; what AS are spouting is whiny elitist bullshit, and they should get over themselves...you could learn something from that as well.

Why don't you try to explain the problem with what they're saying beyond using substance-less phrases like "whiny elitist bullshit"? Or perhaps view that message within the broader context of the band's mode of operation?

Yeah, but some people do see music as a "mere form of entertainment." Who cares? There doesn't need to be a militant uprising of dedicated old school metal fans in order to purge metal of the "oh so bothersome scenesters who don't get it."

Why is it a problem for a metal musician to be concerned with issues pertaining to the form of music to which he has dedicated a part of his life? First of all, he's not calling for a crusade, he's merely acknowledging the seeming return of metal to the 'right' path. "Who cares?" Not you, but is it wrong for a musician involved within the scene to at least make an observation and comment on it? I didn't see anywhere in that statement that implied that these people should be mutilated and chastised and hanged. It's not like he wakes up in the middle of the night perplexed over the fact that Dethklok exists, but does that mean that nobody should find it annoying or stupid? Just because it means nothing to you doesn't mean that it's pointless for it to mean something to somebody else.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

You really just like to hear yourself talk.

For the record, I don't take metal as "seriously" as Dodens does. I am not at all orthodox about it; I enjoy what I enjoy and don't feel like I need to explain why I do. If I want to, I will, but there is really no accounting for taste. One of the worst things about metal and the metal "scene" for lack of a better term is that it breeds people like him (Dodens) who are just annoying as fuck about everything and take themselves far too seriously (despite claiming they don't when it is convenient). Regardless, though Averse Sefira may be musically good (not really a fan), this is just dumb as hell high school kind of clique bullshit. Whatever happened to just ignoring the retards?

I agree with them that there are too many faggots in the metal scene nowadays, etc. etc. but "chest-beating" is NOT going to fix that, and it DOES make you look fucking retarded when you do it. btw, that post is certainly "whiny" as denoted by stuff like "you don't need to give us permission to make music, we don't like you and you're fags and posers and etc."...it's just childish. I find it funny that people, especially what many would consider "elitists" (aka a term in metal for people whose opinions are seen, mainly by themselves, to be infallible), find such a ridiculous, over-the-top, and juvenile series of rants to be some kind of astounding and unique message with deep meaning. Fuck Averse Sefira, basically.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

First off, I'd like to know who you consider relevant today within the scope of the genre, because, especially with their last two albums, I feel that Averse Sefira ranks among the most relevant metal bands today in terms of their lyrical, ideological, and musical conceptions.

I think that, taken with a more read understanding of the band's principles and given what this statement is, which is a blog post of chest beating, paying homage to those who take their craft seriously and produce music that is representative of the principles that have been linked to the genre from the beginning, there is no reason to take Wrath's words as somehow greatly absurd. It was, foremost, simply a bit of gloating about the return of some excellent seminal musicians who have actually produced work that is worthy of their legacy and a celebration of those who have extended that legacy. I think that Averse Sefira has been and continues to be an important extension of that legacy. Anybody who has invested as much passion and conviction into their craft as they have will probably find things such as Dethklok and Arsonists Get All the Girls as a symptom of something having gone wrong, of an overabundance of control within metal by people who don't take it as seriously or that don't represent it in the ways that some feel that they should. I actually didn't expect to see the reactions that were given here. I wonder what the reactions would have been if the perennial jester, Fenriz, had said it. I thought that people would respond favorably to an artist taking what they do seriously and saluting those who share their position, unless they felt they were under attack in their statement.

I'm not discrediting the seriousness and relevance of the band but that entire statement is, quite frankly, presumptuous and elitist. Unfortunately, every genre (undergrond or otherwise) comes to some form of compromisation at some point. I hate bands like Dethklok and Arsonists Get All The Girls just as much as the next person but I don't feel some inner need to make pretentious claims like that.

 

[Crimson Velvet]

http://aversesefira.blogspot.com/
http://aversesefira.blogspot.com/2009/07/attention-to-all-weekenders-hipsters.html

First off, I'd like to know who you consider relevant today within the scope of the genre, because, especially with their last two albums, I feel that Averse Sefira ranks among the most relevant metal bands today in terms of their lyrical, ideological, and musical conceptions.

I think that, taken with a more read understanding of the band's principles and given what this statement is, which is a blog post of chest beating, paying homage to those who take their craft seriously and produce music that is representative of the principles that have been linked to the genre from the beginning, there is no reason to take Wrath's words as somehow greatly absurd. It was, foremost, simply a bit of gloating about the return of some excellent seminal musicians who have actually produced work that is worthy of their legacy and a celebration of those who have extended that legacy. I think that Averse Sefira has been and continues to be an important extension of that legacy. Anybody who has invested as much passion and conviction into their craft as they have will probably find things such as Dethklok and Arsonists Get All the Girls as a symptom of something having gone wrong, of an overabundance of control within metal by people who don't take it as seriously or that don't represent it in the ways that some feel that they should. I actually didn't expect to see the reactions that were given here. I wonder what the reactions would have been if the perennial jester, Fenriz, had said it. I thought that people would respond favorably to an artist taking what they do seriously and saluting those who share their position, unless they felt they were under attack in their statement.

This is all fair enough, but I still feel that all this porturing ultimately boils down to empty rhetoric from a solid band overestimating their own importance and are trying to score points in this new-age old-school scene that was mentioned.

That's a good point about Fenriz, though.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

If Fenriz had said it, it still would have been trite as hell sounding. Seriously, this kind of rhetoric is getting boring. Not sure how many other people and who else feels this way, but...really now. How many times do I really have to hear "man there are a ton of posers, go away posers, we are the rightful owners of metal"?

 

[cookiecutter]

Calling someone a "non-person" because they like shitty metal music is ridiculous. I can understand not liking and criticizing certain trends that have appeared in heavy music but reacting in that dickishly hyperbolic way just makes Averse Sefira seem like a bunch of dorks who think they are more important than they really are. Even if someone legitimately important in metal like Fenriz said something like that it would be silly.

 

[skeptik]

I'm not wasting my time responding to V5. ObscureInfinity, I'm pretty sure "I hate bands like Dethklok and Arsonists Get All The Girls just as much as the next person" is basically what they're saying in a very small way, so I'm not sure why what they said is so bothersome to you. The broader message to what they're saying, however, is simply an observation. They're just observing and commenting on the fact that the 'metal' that they identify with, have come to know and love, etc., seems to be undergoing a genuine resurgence, and are expressing their approval of that. And this goes to Crimson Velvet's point above. What they said is not about them. They're only a small part, in their own eyes I'm sure, about what this resurgence is about. I personally feel that they're one of the more important ones, but that's irrelevant to what they actually said. I'm not sure if you clicked the link, but their comment is preceded by youtube videos of new or live material from bands such as Beherit, Profanatica, Absu, and Blaspherian, so that should give a better perspective on what they were saying.

With that said, I'm not going to continue this. I wasn't expecting such a huge aversion by black metal fans to what seemed to me like a fairly innocuous observation. Obviously I was wrong. Just because we disagree on this doesn't mean people like V5 have to go in complete faggot mode and try to paint me as just some asshole who can't laugh at himself. I'm not a horrible person just because we disagree with how we approach things.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Why is it a problem for a metal musician to be concerned with issues pertaining to the form of music to which he has dedicated a part of his life? First of all, he's not calling for a crusade, he's merely acknowledging the seeming return of metal to the 'right' path. "Who cares?" Not you, but is it wrong for a musician involved within the scene to at least make an observation and comment on it? I didn't see anywhere in that statement that implied that these people should be mutilated and chastised and hanged. It's not like he wakes up in the middle of the night perplexed over the fact that Dethklok exists, but does that mean that nobody should find it annoying or stupid? Just because it means nothing to you doesn't mean that it's pointless for it to mean something to somebody else.

Like V5 said, the whole "poser", "get out of metal", "you don't get it", comments are tired and childish responses to mainstream metal. They obviously have the right to say whatever they want but I found that statement to be pretty typical elitist jargon.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Matt is sad because I blocked him on AIM (again, after giving him a chance to not be a douchebag) because he was trying to get me to explain why I thought their rant was "whiny." Like I said, if you can't see that that is whiny as hell sounding, you are never going to be convinced by anything I can say, and therefore it isn't worth it. So I guess it is right that he should have no want to respond to my (correct) allegations.

Their observation is innocuous...but, it is also totally vacuous. They didn't say anything really interesting or necessary there. If they wanted to say they were happy that there is a resurgence of good metal with true fans of it and all that, they didn't have to be such morons about it. Just say "we would like to acknowledge that, despite the insurgence of people we dislike into OUR METAL, many of our allies have been pushing forth to reclaim the throne of metal from those we hold in contempt, and we salute them" or something like that. It's still dumb and rabble-rousing sort of, but it's less hilariously inept and trite sounding (could probably use some editing I guess).

But really I'm just trying to get a rise out of you to an extent, because it's funny to watch you pretend I am your definition of a poser when I'm being pretty much totally valid in my observations and points that you just don't want to come to terms with.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

I'm not wasting my time responding to V5. ObscureInfinity, I'm pretty sure "I hate bands like Dethklok and Arsonists Get All The Girls just as much as the next person" is basically what they're saying in a very small way, so I'm not sure why what they said is so bothersome to you. The broader message to what they're saying, however, is simply an observation. They're just observing and commenting on the fact that the 'metal' that they identify with, have come to know and love, etc., seems to be undergoing a genuine resurgence, and are expressing their approval of that. And this goes to Crimson Velvet's point above. What they said is not about them. They're only a small part, in their own eyes I'm sure, about what this resurgence is about. I personally feel that they're one of the more important ones, but that's irrelevant to what they actually said. I'm not sure if you clicked the link, but their comment is preceded by youtube videos of new or live material from bands such as Beherit, Profanatica, Absu, and Blaspherian, so that should give a better perspective on what they were saying.

No one doesn't get what they're/you're saying. It's just that me (and others) are getting tired of fans and bands constantly pointing out mainstream metal as being different and a "lesser" form of metal compared to the greats (as if it weren't already obvious that you wouldn't like it if you're strictly into metal sub-genres in their earliest incarnations). Do what I do and simply ignore "metal" that doesn't uphold to the expected standards of your tastes.

 

[skeptik]

It's a fucking post on a blog on the internet.

Do you think I care that you blocked me? I didn't even know that you blocked me. I'm actually glad that you blocked me, because during the course of you not being on and you informing the public that I'm upset that you blocked me, I blocked you as well. We obviously don't get along, so there's no point in dragging it out. I don't see what purpose you had in making it public record that you blocked me, but I assure you that I not only am pleased, but think it's for the best.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Just out of curiosity, was there anything that actually sparked them to make a post like that other than just a general observation? It just comes off as being a direct response to people (in the categories of the first sentence) who I doubt listen to, have heard of, or would even like Averse Sefira.

 

[skeptik]

I think I already explained that. I think the title of the post, "Hoist the black flag," and the videos of Asphyx, Master, Goreaphobia, Profanatica, Beherit, Blaspherian, and Absu are a clue.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

It's a fucking post on a blog on the internet.

Do you think I care that you blocked me? I didn't even know that you blocked me. I'm actually glad that you blocked me, because during the course of you not being on and you informing the public that I'm upset that you blocked me, I blocked you as well. We obviously don't get along, so there's no point in dragging it out. I don't see what purpose you had in making it public record that you blocked me, but I assure you that I not only am pleased, but think it's for the best.

Indeed, a blog post that you felt was important enough to post here and defend the stupidity and triteness of with your weirdo philosophy about "true metal" or whatever. It's just boring now. Can't you be obsessed with something else other than the sound of your own voice (text/words, whatever) yet?

Also, did you just break up with me? Crap.

 

[Zephyrus]

I agree with their intent that it was about the resurgence of quality Metal after a long decline, but the way they expressed it was laughable. Remember that this has always been the band's mode of expression and we shouldn't be arguing so much over the way they express their opinions.

 

[no country for old wainds]

just remember andy that trees don't pay taxes

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

i'll try to keep that in mind tom

 

[Dak]

Itt, V5 is money.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

shit dakryn's on my side, i lose.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i feel like youre saying that kind of glibly but it is actually true