Black Sabbath - I don't get it

[Life Sucks]

I think Slayer's good albums are better than Metallica's good albums. But obviously that's just my opinion. For some reason, it just sounds more interesting to me.

On another note, does anyone else think that Paranoid and Master of Reality are by far the best Sabbath albums? I definitely think they are, after recently having explored some of their other early catalog again for the first time in years.

 

[skeptik]

I find Black Sabbath (though I can see why you would not favor this one), Volume 4, and Sabotage to be the best, personally. I think the thing with Paranoid, however, is partially due to the sickening familiarity I have with damn near every song on that album because that's all radios and tvs ever play from Black Sabbath.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Not to mention James Hetfield's lyrics on Ride the Lightning through AJFA...are some of the best ever penned and far more believable than Araya's.

Obviously you're out to lunch on the rest (), but it's worth pointing out that Araya didn't become a significant lyrical contributor until Slayer's middle period. While Hetfield was writing some of the "best ever" lol lyrics like "Feel no pain, but my life ain't easy / I know I'm my best friend / No one cares, but I'm so much stronger / I'll fight until the end" Hanneman and King were experimenting with things like imagery and metaphors, which is why I posit they were more *ambitious* - they more often explored ideas beyond day-to-day life issues and current events.

 

[skeptik]

Nice job quoting Metallica's stab at commercialism as an example of Hetfield's lyricism.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

"stab at commercialism"? I always though it was about escaping from... things.

 

[skeptik]

I would actually put in the leg work to find an interview where the band alludes to this song being of commercial nature intentionally and are in fact not fond of the song, but it's just not worth my time.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

Is that honestly a fair example of Hetfield's lyrics? If you think so then you're the one who is out to lunch with the rest.

 

[thisisaformicatable]

Is that honestly a fair example of Hetfield's lyrics? If you think so then you're the one who is out to lunch with the rest.

You're the one who said he was among the "best ever", you're the one who cited that album. Do you at least agree on the ambition aspect, which I seem to recall was the original distinction I made between the two bands?

 

[zabu of nΩd]

I find Black Sabbath (though I can see why you would not favor this one), Volume 4, and Sabotage to be the best, personally. I think the thing with Paranoid, however, is partially due to the sickening familiarity I have with damn near every song on that album because that's all radios and tvs ever play from Black Sabbath.

Oddly, I never hear Black Sabbath on the classic rock station out here. I had heard "War Pigs", "Paranoid", and "Iron Man" plenty of times before listening to the album myself, though -- and I do tend to skip over those songs on my playlists. My favorite songs on there are probably "Hand of Doom" and "Fairies Wear Boots".

 

[Life Sucks]

Oddly, I never hear Black Sabbath on the classic rock station out here. I had heard "War Pigs", "Paranoid", and "Iron Man" plenty of times before listening to the album myself, though -- and I do tend to skip over those songs on my playlists. My favorite songs on there are probably "Hand of Doom" and "Fairies Wear Boots".

Interstingly, Hand of Doom and Fairies Wear Boots are my least favorite songs on that album, along with Planet Caravan. I still like them, but I just like the other songs better. I still find that War Pigs is the best song on the album, despite how well known it as (of course, Iron Man is by far the best known song on that album).

 

[raydawg69]

I've always liked them primarily for their melody. They have some especially dark and evil melodies and are still better than any Doom metal today IMO

 

[Thoth-Amon]

I find Black Sabbath (though I can see why you would not favor this one), Volume 4, and Sabotage to be the best, personally. I think the thing with Paranoid, however, is partially due to the sickening familiarity I have with damn near every song on that album because that's all radios and tvs ever play from Black Sabbath.

I agree TOTALLY in regards to Paranoid. I really can't listen to it anymore. As far as Sabotage I think had tracks 6 and 7 been as good as the rest of the album it would be their best. I guess I think the first album and MOR are the best though.

 

[AchrisK]

I think one of the coolest "effects" Sabbath used is the volume knob. There are those songs where the music is all kinda trippy and somewhat mellow, and then you can hear them turn up the volume as they go into a more intense passage. It seems to simple but is so effective. Some examples are in Hand of Doom and the transition into NIB.

 

[rms]

Did a debate sprawl out between whos better, Slayer and metallica? if so that is full of lols.

 

[waif]

Metallica has more talent (slightly), Slayer has better songs (slightly) and they're about equally retarded.

Black Sabbath, Paranoid, Master Of Reality, and Vol. 4 are all great albums imo. Heaven And Hell might be their best. Not a huge fan of Mob Rules. Unfamiliar with anything after that (but the song Headless Cross is badass).

 

[Keoll]

I've always questioned that Black Sabbath was first....They became metal as their career went on....Many other bands and artists that were formed well before Sabbath like Deep Purple, UFO, and Alice Cooper became "metal" during parts of their careers as well....I think many people view Sabbath as the first because the mass media/industry has said so....Too many people in the public-at-large take what the media says as fact and end it at that.

 

[AchrisK]

I've always questioned that Black Sabbath was first....They became metal as their career went on....

Maybe it was eventually called metal, but that is just semantics. Whatever it was called, it was metal, and it was the most metal of any music from its time. I was listening to the first album today and imagining what must it have sounded like to the people when it first came out, when the first notes of Black Sabbath came screaming through the speakers. That's some brutal stuff!

 

[skeptik]

Black Sabbath is the wellspring from which all Heavy Metal has spawned.

 

[Ender Rises]

I think one of the coolest "effects" Sabbath used is the volume knob. There are those songs where the music is all kinda trippy and somewhat mellow, and then you can hear them turn up the volume as they go into a more intense passage. It seems to simple but is so effective. Some examples are in Hand of Doom and the transition into NIB.

Why did you bump this thread for that? I agree, though, the use of the volume knob is a great tool.

 

[The Butt]

Sabbath took all the elements found in all the hard rock at the time, made it heavier, darker, and used that to form their sound. What resulted, was metal.

And personally, I think that Sabbath may have been one of the most innovative bands of the time, as well. They made effective use of the volume knob, as AchrisK said, and they were really experimental with their time signatures, too. Take songs like Sweet Leaf, Dirty Women, etc.

I remember reading something on another board, that as the band was writing the Heaven and Hell album (which, oddly enough, is probably the only Dio-era album I don't really like), Dio had told Tony that "you can't do all those tempo changes mid-song!!!", not knowing that they'd done that throughout their career. I dunno how much truth there is to that story, but I think it still says something about the band.