differences between U.S. and European metal

[Hubster]

Even if it was mostly Burzum worship, does that automatically mean it will be bad? A band can be influential yet it shouldn't influence any newer bands? You've got it all wrong, MATE.

Actually I think YOU do Zeph. The only decent band from the US as far as Burzum clones go is Veil. Malefic has more shit work than good, everyone knows this. How many times does he need to get it wrong?

A band being influential yet not influence any newer bands is YOUR logic, not mine. Influence in art is just as important as originality in art, but influence should not forsake originality when executed.

Plus, Xasthur takes the basic Burzum idea and blows it into a whole different breed of black metal. Malefic creates some seriously abstract stuff which differs from Varg's work in a much different fashion.

I wouldn't quite go that far. Sounds like your brain has gone a bit lo-fi from listening to too much lo-fi production there

As far as Wrest goes, Leviathan needs to end and Lurker of Chalice needs to be his primary output. As far as USBM goes, LoC is fucking brilliant.

 

[Hubster]

Actually, from a second wave POV, it's more about a reaction to the bastardous state of American metal at that time as perceived by Europeans.

 

[Alter]

You could say that Varg passed the torch for someone to continue evolving his formula, and Malefic did so profoundly.

Indeed, also keeping in mind that Malefic has huge amount of outside influences.

 

[cookiecutter]

So I just read all five pages of this thread and here are my thoughts.

About the original topic: I think Cythraul got it pretty much right. In terms of total output it would be hard not to say Europe has had more quality releases, but Europe has over two times as many people as the US. Also it's important to remember that there is not something magical about Europe (or the US, Canada or Australia) that allows them to make better metal. It's purely as Cythraul described "time and affluence".

About United States culture: It's just wrong to say the US has no culture. BY DEFINITION, every country and group of people has culture. If you want to add things like history to the mix it is absurd to hold the US to the same standards as Europe considering European culture has been developing for millenia whereas the US has been around for barely over 200 years. Hubster you once again proved you are an idiot. This has nothing to do with my love for my home country or its music, or my inability to take criticism. It has to do with your gross and repeated misunderstanding of what constitutes culture and how it is expressed. What makes it so ironic is that American culture, which you claim does not exist, is now (for better or worse) the dominant culture in the world.

About USBM: I like it and there is plenty of quality material, both in the European style and new styles. Of course they will cite influence from the great second wave European bands. That would be like the German thrash bands not citing Bay Area thrash as an influence, or for Swedish DM bands to not cite Death. I don't care if you don't like USBM, but to claim it is "superfluous" to black metal when it is one of the leaders in the current scene (along with France and the traditional countries) is not really true. I also don't care if you think black metal is dead. As long as their are some artists who don't I'll be fine

 

[Mort Divine]

Hubster, please smd.

We have Absu, Ashdautas, Grand Belial's Key, Profanatica, Havohej, I Shalt Become, Negative Plane, Tearstained, Fanisk, Ludicra etc.

I don't have much USBM but that really stems more from me not having a lot of black metal from any particular country as a whole - due to not being interested in BM much anymore but to say that it is a country full of nothing but Burzum and Darkthrone worshiping bands is a right fucking joke.

 

[Einherjar86]

Don't forget Wolves in the Throne Room.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

yeah man but like, hipsters like them. won't it deplete my kvltitude points to listen?

 

[Zephyrus]

So I just read all five pages of this thread and here are my thoughts.

About the original topic: I think Cythraul got it pretty much right. In terms of total output it would be hard not to say Europe has had more quality releases, but Europe has over two times as many people as the US. Also it's important to remember that there is not something magical about Europe (or the US, Canada or Australia) that allows them to make better metal. It's purely as Cythraul described "time and affluence".

About United States culture: It's just wrong to say the US has no culture. BY DEFINITION, every country and group of people has culture. If you want to add things like history to the mix it is absurd to hold the US to the same standards as Europe considering European culture has been developing for millenia whereas the US has been around for barely over 200 years. Hubster you once again proved you are an idiot. This has nothing to do with my love for my home country or its music, or my inability to take criticism. It has to do with your gross and repeated misunderstanding of what constitutes culture and how it is expressed. What makes it so ironic is that American culture, which you claim does not exist, is now (for better or worse) the dominant culture in the world.

About USBM: I like it and there is plenty of quality material, both in the European style and new styles. Of course they will cite influence from the great second wave European bands. That would be like the German thrash bands not citing Bay Area thrash as an influence, or for Swedish DM bands to not cite Death. I don't care if you don't like USBM, but to claim it is "superfluous" to black metal when it is one of the leaders in the current scene (along with France and the traditional countries) is not really true. I also don't care if you think black metal is dead. As long as their are some artists who don't I'll be fine

Epic post, and a good end to this argument about value judgment. Now how about we get back to the original thread topic and discuss actual differences between styles.

 

[Alter]

yeah man but like, hipsters like them. won't it deplete my kvltitude points to listen?

Well to some yes, but the hipsters seem to be finding better black metal than most people on this forum.

If that is what you mean.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I was being sarcastic you tard.

 

[Mort Divine]

Hipsters tend to have shitty taste in black metal, Wolves not excluded, but that doesn't make it any less gay to refuse to like a band because hipsters like them.

 

[Alter]

I was being sarcastic you tard.

I know, I just wanted to respond because I thought it fit right.

 

[skeptik]

NME
Toten
Profanatica
Absu
Demoncy
Grand Belial's Key
Masochist
Wind Of The Black Mountains
Dark Psychosis
Resuscitator
VON
Ceremony
Demonic Christ
Havohej
Ritual
Into The Sunless Meridian
Usurper
Scepter
Crimson Moon
Imprecation
Lucifer's Hammer
Vulpecula
Blood Storm
Black Goat
Hemlock
I Shalt Become
Krohm
Tearstained
Weakling
Averse Sefira
Negative Plane
Ibex Throne
Night Conquers Day
Weltmacht
Cult Of Daath

Can we move on now?

 

[Zephyrus]

What's your opinion of the new Averse Sefira, Dodens?

 

[panzerfaust666]

nice post Cookie.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Vulpecula is FUCKING AWESOME. I highly recommend anyone with a passing interest in atmospheric black/death metal to check out In Dusk Apparition. I got it from NWN! for $5 (+ shipping, just make a big order to avoid overpaying on shipping, though) so it might be easy to find.

 

[Alter]

I noticed Nec name dropped Cult Of Daath. Fucking great stuff. One of my all tie favorite USBM groups that I have found recently. I bought Slit Throats And Ritual Nights for only $2 dollars!

 

[LivingCadaver]

Way to put Europe as a whole and ignore Canada from North America. A+

 

[Tonka Time]

Vulpecula is FUCKING AWESOME. I highly recommend anyone with a passing interest in atmospheric black/death metal to check out In Dusk Apparition. I got it from NWN! for $5 (+ shipping, just make a big order to avoid overpaying on shipping, though) so it might be easy to find.

interested in it know anywhere i can find samples?
was lookin at invictus production's myspace and liked some of the stuff they had up there, a lot of it sounds like angelcorpse.

 

[Cythraul]

Goddamnit, why has this whole thing turned into a retarded argument about the quality of U.S. metal vs. the quality of European metal? This is clearly not what I was interested in discussing.

WHY ARE YOU ALL FIGHTING IN MY BEAUTIFUL HOUSE???