Elementary school shooting

[jipchen]

http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/04/dumb_white_peop.html
http://www.halfsigma.com/2007/04/more_gun_owners.html

Aaaaaaand I'm gone

 

[Mutant]

Translation: you're fine with the fact that Obama accepts killing children and other innocent people, because he's "saving his soldiers".

Error in translation.
I said "guilty".
And to be sure that he feels nothing when he gets news of some Afgan villagers killed by American army mistakes, you would have to scan his mind with some god power.

 

[JHA]

Armed civilians prevent crimes.

Crimes done by armed civilians.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Hypocrisy is when you only see faults of one side of the conflict.
If it was so that when a terorist group has a base of operations only like 50 meters from other buildings in a village, then they can't be attacked - the war on terror would never progress a milimeter because terrorists would be perfectly safe under that shield.

Most of the time the local population is strongly against the Taliban bringing the war into their neighborhood, but they are forced to accept their presence or they would get declared enemies of Jihad and executed.

Sure that instead of bombing even with high precision hardware, sending troops to do surgical hits on such strongholds would reduce the collateral damage, but at a cost of the coalition soldiers lives.

So yes Obama is guilty of saving his soldiers at a cost of increased collateral damage and the Taliban are guilty of bringing the war to populated areas instead of letting the infidels kill them easily somewhere in the mountains.

Isn't it you who's seeing one side of the conflict buddy? They can deal with their own civil war. We all know what the West's business there is.

Read up, google, go to the library, pick up news articles dating way back into 1947.

 

[slimebag21]

I'm gonna act like I did'nt read any of this. May the victims rest in peace. Very sad.

 

[plague_rider]

I went straight to Biggie

Its frustrating that I can't actually high-five you right now ...

 

[Mutant]

Isn't it you who's seeing one side of the conflict buddy?

So yes Obama is guilty of saving his soldiers at a cost of increased collateral damage and the Taliban are guilty of bringing the war to populated areas instead of letting the infidels kill them easily somewhere in the mountains.

2 sides.

They can deal with their own civil war.

Just like they could get rid of the Taliban in Afghanistan on their own ?
Or like they could get rid of Saddam in Iraq on their own ?
Come on...
Ask any Afghani 100 citizens if they want to return to the good old days of public executions on stadiums, no tv, no music, no art, almost no rights for women, ultimate rule of the Taliban with their interpretations of Sharia law.
Ask any 100 Iraqi citizens if they want to stay with democracy or if they would prefer to be under some new dictator.

We all know what the West's business there is.

The main business is stabilization of the region for both global economic (chaos = high oil prices = world economy slows down) and mostly American security purposes.

Read up, google, go to the library, pick up news articles dating way back into 1947.

Oh i did.
And i made sure none of the publications i read were biased against any side (AlJazeera has an english language version and is actually a good only slightly biased source of info now).
Americans are no selfless angels, but they are not the devils that some propaganda groups would like you to think they are.

 

[Fox Mulder]

You're naive, like the media made you.

 

[drew_drummer]

Thread needs more ass:

 

[Fox Mulder]

Sources of entertainment used to be filtered. They were a tad more easy going than China. As for women's rights - let's not ruin this thread. I come from a Muslim family and am extremely close to my mom and sister. And I know other Muslim families as well.

Just because none of them don't wanna do business doesn't give anyone the right to attack them. It's not our fault the American economy is falling.

 

[DanLights]

Oh, so now we're at "America invades other countries for the good of the world, and the citizens of invaded countries are eternally grateful for it?" LOL! Mutant, dude, give up, this thread is soooo over.

 

[SocialNumb]

Maamar Huq

Please do something about your images hosted at http://www.freeimagehosting.net. Like your sig. Fucking annoying google warning comes up every time you post.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Maamar Huq

Please do something about your images hosted at http://www.freeimagehosting.net. Like your sig. Fucking annoying google warning comes up every time you post.

Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Mutant]

Sources of entertainment used to be filtered. They were a tad more easy going than China. As for women's rights - let's not ruin this thread. I come from a Muslim family and am extremely close to my mom and sister. And I know other Muslim families as well.

I kinda guessed it from your nickname.
Are you saying that women had more rights under Taliban and life back then was like in a beautiful dream, that it really was better than now ?
I really did read a lot on this subject and sometimes directly from Muslim citizens of both Afghanistan and Iraq and the general feeling that i get from them is that they are only unhappy about Americans doing whatever they do in their countries when there is some military or social relations fuckup.
And then when asked if they want Americans out, they answer "yes, but not before all the terrorists are wiped out".

Just because none of them don't wanna do business doesn't give anyone the right to attack them. It's not our fault the American economy is falling.

War is bad.
Some wars are necessary evil.
Why are terrorists in Afghanistan targetting local police and bombing crowded places like farmer markets ?
Who helps the local forces by giving them training, supplies, military support ? FFS they even sometimes go on patrols together.
Would the war suddenly stop if all Americans withdrew back from Afghanistan ?

Oh, so now we're at "America invades other countries for the good of the world, and the citizens of invaded countries are eternally grateful for it?" LOL! Mutant, dude, give up, this thread is soooo over.

DanLights why are you always trying to bend what i said to make it mean something else ?
This is not a good strategy in a debate.
I am assuming that you do it intentionally for some strange reason and not because you really have no idea about the things i am talking about.
If you don't agree with whatever i said and have your own counter arguments i will be interested to read them - don't be too shy to share your own thoughts.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Oh, so now we're at "America invades other countries for the good of the world, and the citizens of invaded countries are eternally grateful for it?" LOL! Mutant, dude, give up, this thread is soooo over.

+1
Logic 101. Violence never was and never will be the answer, be it for business or whatever. As much as we're against the American foreign policy, we can't deny the fact that the East has her stinkers too.

 

[Loren Littlejohn]

Man I have to work for a couple days and miss out on everything.



At this point I don't think paticipating in this debate is going to do anything. See you geys in other topics.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I kinda guessed it from your nickname.
Are you saying that women had more rights under Taliban and life back then was like in a beautiful dream, that it really was better than now ?
I really did read a lot on this subject and sometimes directly from Muslim citizens of both Afghanistan and Iraq and the general feeling that i get from them is that they are only unhappy about Americans doing whatever they do in their countries when there is some military or social relations fuckup.
And then when asked if they want Americans out, they answer "yes, but not before all the terrorists are wiped out".


War is bad.
Some wars are necessary evil.
Why are terrorists in Afghanistan targetting local police and bombing crowded places like farmer markets ?
Who helps the local forces by giving them training, supplies, military support ?
Would the war suddenly stop if all Americans withdrew back from Afghanistan ?


DanLights why are you always trying to bend what i said to make it mean something else ?
This is not a good strategy in a debate.
I am assuming that you do it intentionally for some strange reason and not because you really have no idea about the things i am talking about.
If you don't agree with whatever i said and have your own counter arguments i will be interested to read them - don't be too shy to share your own thoughts.

I think what we intend to do is express ourselves irrespective of whether or not we win the debate. Fuck the debate.

Just like in America, where not everyone is an Obama fan, there are people in Afghanistan who don't like the Taliban.

Not everyone wants to suck up to the World Bank. Their ways go against "Islamic Banking". You don't bomb people for their religious beliefs.

9/11 had nothing to do with "Muslim Civilians". And collateral damage is still damage.

Rape in Afghanistan has gone up since 2001. It's not easy to domesticate wild animals, therefore the Shariah.

I'm from the People's Republic of Bangladesh. A friend of mine was DUI, crashed his car, killed himself and some other civilians. If this was the "Islamic Republic of Bangladesh" I have reason to believe he wouldn't have been drunk.


Edit: Certain "Hadiths", which were written about 200 years after Prophet Muhammad's death goes directly against certain facts that were written in the Quran, including Women's Rights and Music. However, we have people who're not really comfy reading and understanding poetry. So there you have it. CORRUPTION. Take them down within your borders. Don't kill innocent civilians.

 

[Skinny Viking]

Its frustrating that I can't actually high-five you right now ...

 

[Jind]

I'm done here - this thread is off in another direction. I'll just leave with one last thought - something will probably happen after this shooting, the mood and willingness for many I thought unwilling to discuss any "sensible gun regulation", a far more accurate word than the vilified term "gun control", seem to be coming to the conclusion and acceptance that it has to be at least a portion of the discussion. Yes, it's only a portion of the overall issue that include others items like how we deal with mental illness, parenting, concerns about cultural acceptances,...

This is not simply about stopping random acts of violence like the one in Newtown, CT - it's just an unfortunate truth that horrible events tend to be tipping points in larger discussions, or more precisely the impetus to finally push a needed conversation/action to the forefront. I don't know what the end result will be, but I'm willing to have the discussion - even one that discusses reasonable gun ownership (despite the fact that I own several firearms).

I hope peace will find the families impacted by the tragedy that happened in Newtown - my thoughts are with them.

 

[Skinny Viking]

I'm done here - this thread is off in another direction. I'll just leave with one last thought - something will probably happen after this shooting, the mood and willingness for many I thought unwilling to discuss any "sensible gun regulation", a far more accurate word than the vilified term "gun control", seem to be coming to the conclusion and acceptance that it has to be at least a portion of the discussion. Yes, it's only a portion of the overall issue that include others items like how we deal with mental illness, parenting, concerns about cultural acceptances,...

This is not simply about stopping random acts of violence like the one in Newtown, CT - it's just an unfortunate truth that horrible events tend to be tipping points in larger discussions, or more precisely the impetus to finally push a needed conversation/action to the forefront. I don't know what the end result will be, but I'm willing to have the discussion - even one that discusses reasonable gun ownership (despite the fact that I own several firearms).

I hope peace will find the families impacted by the tragedy that happened in Newtown - my thoughts are with them.

well said man