Learning Swedish?

[Defiance]

Well, I had drunk some beer yesterday and still was mad about the game.

So let me explain: Duits/Deutsch initially was a term for everything "belonging to the people" (in contrast to "belonging to the government") it's from Germanic *þeodisk- (thus "theodiscus" in Latin texts). It appeared mainly in court texts when someone was quoted who was speaking in his native toung rather than in Latin. No matter where the speaker was from.
At around the year 1000 the term "diutisc" became restricted to everything culturally and linguistically German (not Germanic!) which was basically everything within the boundaries of the Holy Roman Empire of German Nation. The Scandinavian languages, Frisian (I'm not quite sure here) and English were not called "diutisc". There was no sense of "Germanic" because people didn't know or just didn't care.

All this "Germanicism" appeared in the rennaissance or maybe a bit later. (Educated) people from all over Europe began to bethink themselves of their "roots", the classical times. But since Germany never took part in what was so adorable about the Romans and Greeks, some built up their own past of heroic Germanics fighting against Romans and being proud of their Germanic identity. Which is just rubbish because in the antiquity there was no common feel of being Germanic or not. It was rather a term given by the Romans to everything east of the Rhine. Even Slavonic tribes counted as "germanicus".
But in the 19th century some Germans made up their own past in order to compete with other cultures with an adorable past. That's what I meant with "envy".

Ahh OK, isn't it nice when one is not drunk and can explain things properly? That's very interesting, thanks for the info. Can you show me where you got it? I'd like to read more about that. And I don't think English was considered Germanic at that time (but will we ever know?) since they were well… English, and OE had already appeared by then (and was about to die actually).

PS: I was depressed about the game too, but España was much better and deserved to win.

 

[Thidrek]

Ahh OK, isn't it nice when one is not drunk and can explain things properly? That's very interesting, thanks for the info. Can you show me where you got it? I'd like to read more about that. And I don't think English was considered Germanic at that time (but will we ever know?) since they were well… English, and OE had already appeared by then (and was about to die actually).

PS: I was depressed about the game too, but España was much better and deserved to win.

Huh? Why did you post that in here?

Sorry, I have learned all this over the time. Some in school, some in university when I was still studying German.
In history class in school we once read a text by a 19th century's Englishman stating that England was the best of all countries because the "Anglo-Saxon race" was the best of all. But I can't remember the source.

Alot about the term "deutsch", "duits" or "dutch" can be read at Wikipedia and at Etymonline and of course their sources.



back to topic: Jag tycker nu lite om Ebba Grön. Finns det olika band eller åtminstone rockband som sjunga övervägande på svenska och inte spelar metal?
edit²: naturligtvis känner och gillar jag också redan Kent.


edit: och jag skulle vilja veta om man kan jämföra svenskt "dock" och tyskt "doch". Det våre snällt om nån kunde säga mig om följande satser är möjligt på svenska:
"Dock!" (som en motsättning (?) (if you protest something said))
"Synd, det finns dock inga jordgubbar ännu..."
"Det finns (det) dock inte!" (meaning: "impossible!")
"Du har dock den nya iPoden, eller?"

 

[Defiance]

May I ask what an 'anglicism' is? Because I'm thinking Anglican as in the church, and I know that's not what you mean! Is it like a borrowed word from English?

Indeed, just as a Gallicism is one borrowed from Français.

 

[Draugen]

back to topic: Jag tycker nu lite om Ebba Grön. Finns det olika band eller åtminstone rockband som sjunga övervägande på svenska och inte spelar metal?
edit²: naturligtvis känner och gillar jag också redan Kent.

Oh ja. Gillar du Ebba Grön så kan jag rekommendera en hel del trall/punk/folk-band:
Dia Psalma, Strebers, Radioaktiva Räker, Räserbajs, Big Fish, De Lyckliga Kompisarna, Coca Carola och Charta 77.

 

[NovembersDirge]

Oh ja. Gillar du Ebba Grön så kan jag rekommendera en hel del trall/punk/folk-band:
Dia Psalma, Strebers, Radioaktiva Räker, Räserbajs, Big Fish, De Lyckliga Kompisarna, Coca Carola och Charta 77.

Jag vet inte så mycket här, men jag tycker väldigt mycket om Fejd som är lite mer som Hedningarna (dvs folk) och själva bandet (Hedningarna) är inte heller dåligt. Jag tycker också om Thåströms soloskivor och Imperiet som var Thåströms 80-talsprojekt (Thåström från Ebba Grön förresten). Sedan finns det också trubadurer som Cornelius Vreeswijk som är bra och en väldigt underskattad svensk företeelse (tycker jag). Och glöm inte att läsa mer om svensk progg en annan fascinerande rörelse som hände i Sverige under 70-talet. Band som Kebnekajse, Trettioåriga Kriget, Kaipa, National Teatern, Hoola Bandoola Band, Blå Tåget också (som gjorde ursprungsversionen av "Staten och Kapitalet" som Ebba Grön spelade in senare). Jag har inte lyssnat på alla dem där (som Hoola Bandoola Bandet) men jag tycker om de första som nämndes jättemycket.

Om du tycker om dålig musik så är sångare som Lars Winnerbäck och Håkan Hellström väldigt populär här. Kristian Antilla är en annan som jag inte kan hantera som vissa (som min sambo) tycker om. Det finns också Tomas Dileva som har en låt som heter "Vi har bara varandra" som jag tycker är väldigt dålig men vem vet. Du kanske tycker om sånt.

Oj, ett annat mer poppigt band är Säkert! som har en jättebra låt som heter "Vi kommer att dö samtidigt". Tycker om denna låt jättemycket men har inte hört mer.

 

[lefay82]

i've finally found a swedish grammar written in italian
the only problem is that it's an anastatic print from a grammar written in late 1800 so there's a lot of differences from modern swedish.
but it's cool anyway!
for example it's used the form äro like in some old vintersorg texts , or the form "hafva" instead of "hava", or "af" instead of "av", "hvad" or "hvar" instead of "vad" and "var"
and also some verb's conjugation is a little bit different, but in general looks like the grammar isn't changed so much....

 

[NovembersDirge]

My understanding is that the big the change was that plural bit. There have been other spelling changes, but the plural form of verbs (jag är - vi äro) was the thing that really disappeared in the language reforms that happened in the 1930s.

Sounds really cool, though!

 

[Defiance]

^ Yeah, very interesting! Scandinavia did go through a lot of changes in the beginning of the 1900s.

 

[vodbones]

I also trying to learn Swedish. Although it was difficult, I found a Turkish-Swedish guide. I'm learning in the basic sentences and grammar at least, but it isn't enough. First, I have to improve my English haha.

 

[lefay82]

I also trying to learn Swedish. Although it was difficult, I found a Turkish-Swedish guide. I'm learning in the basic sentences and grammar at least, but it isn't enough. First, I have to improve my English haha.

cool, swedish learners from all over the world!!!!!

i'm reading swedish folk ballads and it's great that i'm able to understand nearly everything!!! yeyyyyy it's a great satisfaction!!!!
i'm going to start "den bergtagna" and the last ballad of the book it is called älvefärd, pretty familiar isn't it?
but i'm a little bit disappointed because the book is full of notes and the ballads are very few. i would have prefered more ballads and less notes

 

[Defiance]

I also trying to learn Swedish. Although it was difficult, I found a Turkish-Swedish guide. I'm learning in the basic sentences and grammar at least, but it isn't enough. First, I have to improve my English haha.

That's great, keep it up! When you finish using that guide, can I have? That way I can learn Turkish through Svenska .

cool, swedish learners from all over the world!!!!!

i'm reading swedish folk ballads and it's great that i'm able to understand nearly everything!!! yeyyyyy it's a great satisfaction!!!!
i'm going to start "den bergtagna" and the last ballad of the book it is called älvefärd, pretty familiar isn't it?
but i'm a little bit disappointed because the book is full of notes and the ballads are very few. i would have prefered more ballads and less notes

Excellent, keep it up! Are the lyrics in Old Svenska or something?

 

[lefay82]

Excellent, keep it up! Are the lyrics in Old Svenska or something?

yes it's written in old swedish.
some ballads are newer some are older...so some are quite easy to read, the swedish used is nearly identical with modern swedish, some are a little bit harder, but still 80% understandable.


for example the first ballad begins so (it was performed also by falconer)

Thöres döttrar j Vänge
kåller war theras skough
dee sufuo een stund för lenge
mädan skogen han löfgas

modern swedish would sound something like

thöres döttrar i vänge
kaller var deras skog
de sövde en stund för länge
medan skogen han lövas

another example more similar to modern swedish is:

herr peder går på gården ock leeker
men örter groo
hans kiäraste sitter i buren och gråter
i hållen så vehl eder troo

herr peder går på gården ock leker
men örter gror
hans käraste sitter i buren och gråter
ni håller så väl er tro (i suppose this is the right form)

 

[Chastise]

I have a rather idle question just out of curiosity. Is Swedish somehow similar to Norwegian? If so, in what way(s)? Cause a Swedish friend of mine helped me translate some Ulver lyrics once.

 

[vodbones]

That's great, keep it up! When you finish using that guide, can I have? That way I can learn Turkish through Svenska .

Haha of course Defiance. I will send you

 

[Laurelindo]

Well, the translator is right in the way that "You are welcome" translates to "Du är välkommen" if you just do it word by word, but not if you take the actual meaning of the sentence.

Yes, "du är välkommen" would sound pretty odd if spoken as such in Swedish (although of course "you are always welcome here" works well among close friends, "du är alltid välkommen här").
The normal way to respond to someone when they thank you for something in Swedish is "ingen orsak" - this essentially translates as "no cause" or "no reason", which probably means you did something selflessly for someone.

 

[Agah]

I have a rather idle question just out of curiosity. Is Swedish somehow similar to Norwegian? If so, in what way(s)? Cause a Swedish friend of mine helped me translate some Ulver lyrics once.

Yes. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are very similar, Icelandic and Faroese is also pretty similar to the Scandinavian languages but not as much as the first three. All these languages stem from the old Norse language that was spoken in the Viking age.

Most Norwegians will tell you that Danish is easy to read but hard to listen to, and Swedish is easier to listen to but a bit harder to read.

 

[Laurelindo]

I have a rather idle question just out of curiosity. Is Swedish somehow similar to Norwegian? If so, in what way(s)? Cause a Swedish friend of mine helped me translate some Ulver lyrics once.

Swedish and Norwegian are very similar to each other, I've been in Norway myself several times and can effortlessly speak with the natives there.
In fact, sometimes a Norwegian sentence will even look exactly as it would in Swedish.

Also in the village where I live we have a fairly isolated own language that is very similar to Icelandic.

 

[Sigurðr]

i was reading in some site that a danish understand better a drunk norwegian than a sober one

 

[Defiance]

^ .

no i don't speak polish. Even though most poles can understand russian, most russians will only understand just some words of polish (or other slavic languages). I was just trying to read some ukrainian text about what a typical ukrainian features are and i had hard time understanding even that I think there are more similarities between norwegian swedish and danish than between russian and ukrainian... at least the written language is quite hard for me to understand.

I've always wanted to learn Polska and Cymraeg (Welsh), I love languages that have few people that speak them . I'll learn Svenska first, and then probably move on to Welsh. Because Celtic languages are awesome. I mean, how can you beat a name for a city like this?

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, i.e. St Mary's Church (Llanfair) in the hollow (pwll) of the white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the rapid whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) and the church of St Tysilio (llantysilio) by the red cave ([a]g ogo goch).

Epic, simply epic.

Llanfairpwllgwyngyll

I once met a gal who lived in that town. She was really pretty (the gal, that is). I wish I would've asked her for her e-mail…. Aaaanyhow.

Yes, Russian and Ukrainian are quite different; people from said countries don't understand each other (in oh so many ways). I've never been to Ukraine, I wonder if it's the shithole everyone says it is. I would like to go there and see for myself if it's really "the whorehouse" of Europe. Maybe someone can (please) enlighten me on this.

 

[NovembersDirge]

Yes. Swedish, Norwegian and Danish are very similar, Icelandic and Faroese is also pretty similar to the Scandinavian languages but not as much as the first three. All these languages stem from the old Norse language that was spoken in the Viking age.

Most Norwegians will tell you that Danish is easy to read but hard to listen to, and Swedish is easier to listen to but a bit harder to read.

I find Norwegian easier to understand, though sometimes I have issues with it. It doesn't help that Swedish isn't my first language, so things that might be familiar and easily accessible for a Swede aren't for me. Danish is legible, but the language is fucking insanity. Not a clue what they're saying.

There's a great quote, I'm not sure who said, but it's something like "A language is just a dialect with an army." In the case of the Scandinavian languages this is the case.