Learning Swedish?

[Agah]

Yeah I thought I should take a name that fit me.

I think the name fits most people on the internet.

 

[Defiance]

Hmm I don't think so unfortunately. I should correct myself, it's probably not useful to learners, as you'd have to understand it to gain anything from it in the first place, heh. In this episode he's talking about the linguistic history of Skåne, explaining how it culturally differs quite significantly from the rest of Sweden, as it's more influenced by Denmark (it used to be East Denmark) and the continent as a whole. I don't know if you notice it, but the "back of the mouth - r" of Skånska is influenced by French, for example.

I didn't notice, as I didn't watch the entire video . Do you think you'd be able to translate it? Please?

 

[NovembersDirge]

Oh dude. That's a hell of a translation job. 30 minutes of video?

 

[Defiance]

For the sake of non-Swedish-speaking linguists!

 

[Blind Guardian]

I don't think anyone would do that amount of translation-work without getting paid.

I summed most of it up, the series is perhaps not so much about grammar in itself as the social/political/geographical history that has shaped the various accents and dialects into what they are today. A particularly interesting point in that episode is that the king had plans to ethnically cleanse Skåne of its inhabitants, and replace them with 'real Swedes'. He also mentions that if that had happened, or if Denmark hadn't lost Skåne in the first place, Sweden wouldn't have stood a chance against Denmark in football today (almost every Swedish footballer worthy of note comes from Skåne).

 

[Thidrek]

Thanks for the dokumentations, they are great.
But my Swedish is not yet firm enough to translate it... I don't even understand everything.

But look where they put Germany ("Tyskland" for those who don't know) on the map... %D

 

[Defiance]

I don't think anyone would do that amount of translation-work without getting paid.

I summed most of it up, the series is perhaps not so much about grammar in itself as the social/political/geographical history that has shaped the various accents and dialects into what they are today. A particularly interesting point in that episode is that the king had plans to ethnically cleanse Skåne of its inhabitants, and replace them with 'real Swedes'. He also mentions that if that had happened, or if Denmark hadn't lost Skåne in the first place, Sweden wouldn't have stood a chance against Denmark in football today (almost every Swedish footballer worthy of note comes from Skåne).

Yeah of course, as a translator myself I totally understand . I'll watch the video again, maybe I'll get more. (I didn't even finish it the first time hehe.)

 

[lefay82]

i was reading today's news on 8sidor, this news in particular tells about a swedish journalist who was imprisoned in 2001 for having criticized eritrea's government.
but now....please....tell me what the fuck this phrase means.
i know the meaning of each single word but i´m not sure i can make a sentence with some sense out of this....
"Den svenska regeringen har fått kritik för att den gör för lite för att få Eritreas regering att frige svensken"
the swedish government have criticized because it has been done too little for the eritrean govern to free swedes?
the "3 för" part is really insane

 

[Thidrek]

I'd say "The Swedish government had been critisized because they did too little to get the Eritrean government to release the Swede".

 

[NovembersDirge]

i was reading today's news on 8sidor, this news in particular tells about a swedish journalist who was imprisoned in 2001 for having criticized eritrea's government.
but now....please....tell me what the fuck this phrase means.
i know the meaning of each single word but i´m not sure i can make a sentence with some sense out of this....
"Den svenska regeringen har fått kritik för att den gör för lite för att få Eritreas regering att frige svensken"
the swedish government have criticized because it has been done too little for the eritrean govern to free swedes?
the "3 för" part is really insane

"The Swedish government has been criticized (received criticism) for doing too little to get Eritrea's government to free the Swede."

The three "för" is something like this: "för att" is basically "because" in that first sense. "För lite" is equivalent to "too little" in English, you can use "för" in those situations. And the second "för att" is basically a phrase that means "to get", or "to cause". In this case it's "to get the Eritrean government to free" Dawit Isaak.

This was the front cover story for DN, too. I'm surprised at how vigilant the Swedish papers are about this story. But good on them.

 

[lefay82]

thaks!
yes you're right fått means something like to get....i translated it in the wrong way.

what i find very hard to understand in swedish is some sentence's contruction. it's not so immediate like in english, where you understand quickly which is the verb, the subject, the preposition. with longer and composed sentences i still find some difficulty to understand, and i have to read the phrase 2 or 3 times, like has happened with the phrase above.
and the fact that the same word means very different things it doesn't help !

 

[NovembersDirge]

thaks!
yes you're right fått means something like to get....i translated it in the wrong way.

what i find very hard to understand in swedish is some sentence's contruction. it's not so immediate like in english, where you understand quickly which is the verb, the subject, the preposition. with longer and composed sentences i still find some difficulty to understand, and i have to read the phrase 2 or 3 times, like has happened with the phrase above.
and the fact that the same word means very different things it doesn't help !

"Få" can be kind of a confusing verb. It really is probably "get" or "receive". But Swedes use it in very funny ways, in my opinion. My personal favorite being "Jag fick stå i kö i tre timmar!" The way we use "get" in English is that it's something you're happy about. "I finally got to meet Vintersorg!" or "Yeah, I got to see them live one time. It was pretty awesome." So it always sounds like they're happy to be doing things they're actually complaining about to me..

Do you know about "huvudsatser" and "bisatser"? Particularly in simple Swedish those are things you want to look out for, because unless you're reading Strindberg, you're probably not going to be seeing a lot more than like a huvudsats and a bisats in any sentence. If you're breaking sentences down, try to figure out what is what. That has helped me understand confusing sentences in the past.

But, of course, if it's a phrase that you're having issues with ("för att få" for example) then it gets more difficult.

Do you find Swedish grammar to be fairly easy otherwise?

 

[lefay82]

"Få" can be kind of a confusing verb. It really is probably "get" or "receive". But Swedes use it in very funny ways, in my opinion. My personal favorite being "Jag fick stå i kö i tre timmar!" The way we use "get" in English is that it's something you're happy about. "I finally got to meet Vintersorg!" or "Yeah, I got to see them live one time. It was pretty awesome." So it always sounds like they're happy to be doing things they're actually complaining about to me..

Do you know about "huvudsatser" and "bisatser"? Particularly in simple Swedish those are things you want to look out for, because unless you're reading Strindberg, you're probably not going to be seeing a lot more than like a huvudsats and a bisats in any sentence. If you're breaking sentences down, try to figure out what is what. That has helped me understand confusing sentences in the past.

But, of course, if it's a phrase that you're having issues with ("för att få" for example) then it gets more difficult.

Do you find Swedish grammar to be fairly easy otherwise?

if i'm not worng Få is used also as a form of politeness, like "kan ja få ett glass vin?" when you're asking something....

yes i've noticed that the construction of phrase isn't complex, in italy we use to coordinate and subordinate much more, but it doesn't happen in swedish, or al least not in simple swedish like the one of 8sidor.
but there are still some grammatical things that leave me a little bit in confusion, like this. there also many words that are similar in spelling but with different meanings, it's hard to rembember all those words that change meaning with a change of vowel, for example hall-häll-håll-hål
but generally i don't find the swedish grammar to be so complicate, maybe because my language's grammar is harder. i don't know...
the verb thing is really cool....easier than english, you don't have to add either a S to the third person
when i'm reading simple stuff like 8sidor, if i don't find any word of which i don't know the meaning, i can read it fluently and understaning the meaning of the phrase while i'm reading. only with difficult constructions i have to stop and think a little bit about it.

 

[NovembersDirge]

if i'm not worng Få is used also as a form of politeness, like "kan ja få ett glass vin?" when you're asking something....

yes i've noticed that the construction of phrase isn't complex, in italy we use to coordinate and subordinate much more, but it doesn't happen in swedish, or al least not in simple swedish like the one of 8sidor.
but there are still some grammatical things that leave me a little bit in confusion, like this. there also many words that are similar in spelling but with different meanings, it's hard to rembember all those words that change meaning with a change of vowel, for example hall-häll-håll-hål
but generally i don't find the swedish grammar to be so complicate, maybe because my language's grammar is harder. i don't know...
the verb thing is really cool....easier than english, you don't have to add either a S to the third person
when i'm reading simple stuff like 8sidor, if i don't find any word of which i don't know the meaning, i can read it fluently and understaning the meaning of the phrase while i'm reading. only with difficult constructions i have to stop and think a little bit about it.

I was going to say: I'm under the impression that Italian, like the other Romantic languages has a pretty difficult grammar on its own. I think Swedish grammar is ridiculously easy when compared to other languages. Think about it, there's no case system. The verb system is pretty easy (though there are some frustrating verbs) and especially for native English speakers (and Germans) things are pretty easy to pick up. A lot of the constructions are similar between English and Swedish, I think. Sure there are minor differences, but in the end its pretty easy to pick up.

But yeah, there are still confusing things about it. And "få" is a good one. Also, the word "få" as a noun means "few", so sometimes that can be confusing if you're not close enough attention in the early stages.

Do you try to read DN ever?

 

[Thidrek]

if i'm not worng Få is used also as a form of politeness, like "kan ja få ett glass vin?" when you're asking something....

Well, the politeness is caused rather by the "kan jag" than by the "få". You could also just say "jag får ett glass vin" or "ge mig ett glass vin!" or "viiiiiin!!1" Do you see how politeness decreases by substituting/deleting words and phrases?

And speaking of "få", this little joke has to be mentioned:

son: far, får får får?
far: nej, får får lamm!
i love it

 

[Draugen]

Well, the politeness is caused rather by the "kan jag" than by the "få". You could also just say "jag får ett glass vin" or "ge mig ett glass vin!" or "viiiiiin!!1" Do you see how politeness decreases by substituting/deleting words and phrases?

One must also remember that the word "glass" means icecream and "glas" means glass. Oh, the logic

 

[Defiance]

"The Swedish government has been criticized (received criticism) for doing too little to get Eritrea's government to free the Swede."

The three "för" is something like this: "för att" is basically "because" in that first sense. "För lite" is equivalent to "too little" in English, you can use "för" in those situations. And the second "för att" is basically a phrase that means "to get", or "to cause". In this case it's "to get the Eritrean government to free" Dawit Isaak.

This was the front cover story for DN, too. I'm surprised at how vigilant the Swedish papers are about this story. But good on them.

Thanks for the explanation!

"Få" can be kind of a confusing verb. It really is probably "get" or "receive". But Swedes use it in very funny ways, in my opinion. My personal favorite being "Jag fick stå i kö i tre timmar!" The way we use "get" in English is that it's something you're happy about. "I finally got to meet Vintersorg!" or "Yeah, I got to see them live one time. It was pretty awesome." So it always sounds like they're happy to be doing things they're actually complaining about to me..

Do you know about "huvudsatser" and "bisatser"? Particularly in simple Swedish those are things you want to look out for, because unless you're reading Strindberg, you're probably not going to be seeing a lot more than like a huvudsats and a bisats in any sentence. If you're breaking sentences down, try to figure out what is what. That has helped me understand confusing sentences in the past.

But, of course, if it's a phrase that you're having issues with ("för att få" for example) then it gets more difficult.

Do you find Swedish grammar to be fairly easy otherwise?

Yes, Swedish grammar is indeed quite easy. After you learn French or German (especially the latter), it's nothing. And a lot of the words are very similar, for obvious reasons (both being Germanic languages. German a High West Germanic one, and Swedish —and its friends— North Germanic).

if i'm not worng Få is used also as a form of politeness, like "kan ja få ett glass vin?" when you're asking something....

yes i've noticed that the construction of phrase isn't complex, in italy we use to coordinate and subordinate much more, but it doesn't happen in swedish, or al least not in simple swedish like the one of 8sidor.
but there are still some grammatical things that leave me a little bit in confusion, like this. there also many words that are similar in spelling but with different meanings, it's hard to rembember all those words that change meaning with a change of vowel, for example hall-häll-håll-hål
but generally i don't find the swedish grammar to be so complicate, maybe because my language's grammar is harder. i don't know...
the verb thing is really cool....easier than english, you don't have to add either a S to the third person
when i'm reading simple stuff like 8sidor, if i don't find any word of which i don't know the meaning, i can read it fluently and understaning the meaning of the phrase while i'm reading. only with difficult constructions i have to stop and think a little bit about it.

For me Italian is not that difficult, since it's much more similar to Spanish than French or (that ugly language called) Portuguese. Of course, you need to learn non-verbal Italian, which is pretty interesting. I now know how to say to my girl "vaffanculo" and make the appropriate non-verbal expression hehe. (I only did that once, actually.)

Well, the politeness is caused rather by the "kan jag" than by the "få". You could also just say "jag får ett glass vin" or "ge mig ett glass vin!" or "viiiiiin!!1" Do you see how politeness decreases by substituting/deleting words and phrases?

And speaking of "få", this little joke has to be mentioned:

son: far, får får får?
far: nej, får får lamm!
i love it

Ha yeah the more you take from it the more it decreases! Can you explain the joke? I want to laugh, I don't get the 'lamm' part.

One must also remember that the word "glass" means icecream and "glas" means glass. Oh, the logic

Ha cool, it's like "Eis" in German is "ice-cream" and 'ice'. And look at all the meanings I found :

Eis {n} ice
Eis {n} [kurz für Speiseeis] gastr. ice cream
Eis {n} <E&#9839;> [Ton] mus. E sharp <E&#9839;>
ohne Eis without ice
ohne Eis [Cocktails] straight up [coll.]
mit Eis gastr. à la mode {adj} [Am.]
Eis entfernen to de-ice
kaltes Eis {n} cold ice
Portion {f} Eis gastr. dish of ice-cream
verstrudeltes Eis {n} gastr. ripple ice cream
Eis-Dur {n} <Eis, E&#9839;> mus. E sharp major <E&#9839; major>
eis-Moll {n} <eis, Eism, E&#9839;m> mus. E sharp minor <E&#9839; minor>
elektrochemische Impedanzspektroskopie {f} <EIS> phys. electrochemical impedance spectroscopy <EIS>
eine Kugel Eis a ball of ice-cream
im Eis eingeklemmt jammed in the ice
Achtung dünnes Eis danger thin ice
mit Eis überziehend frosting
kalt wie Eis idiom cold as ice
auf Eis liegen to be on ice idiom to be on hold
auf Eis stellen to put on ice [champagne]
von Eis befreien to de-ice
zu Eis umwandeln to convert into ice
ins Eis einbrechen to break through the ice
auf Eis legen [fig.] to shelve to put on ice [plan]
das Eis brechen [fig.] to break the spell
etw. auf Eis legen [fig.] to put sth. on hold
das Eis brechen [auch fig.] to break the ice [also fig.]
etw. auf Eis legen idiom to put sth. on the back burner
Eis {n} am Stiel gastr. popsicle [Am.] gastr. ice block [NZ] gastr. ice lolly [Br.] gastr. icy pole [Aus.] [coll.]gastr. lolly [Aus.] [Br.] [coll.]
Eis {n} mit Rippelung gastr. ripple ice cream
Eis- und Schneewärter {m} [kgl. Hof] hist. Keeper of Ice and Snow [Br.] [royal household]
Wasser erstarrt zu Eis. Water congeals to ice.
so kalt wie Eis idiom as cold as ice
auf dem Eis gleiten to slide on the ice
im Eis eingeklemmt sein to be ice-bound
Wasser in Eis verwandeln to change water into ice
vom Eis geschliffener Findlingstein {m} boulder
Das Eis wird nicht tragen. The ice will not bear / hold.
Sei vorsichtig wenn du übers Eis gehst! Use caution in crossing the ice!
Unsere Pläne müssen wir auf Eis legen. We must put off our plans.
Du bewegst dich auf dünnem Eis. [fig.] You're treading / skating on thin ice. [fig.]
Ich versuche nur, das Eis zu brechen. [fig.] I'm only trying to break the ice. [fig.]
ein Loch ins Eis schlagen to cut a hole in the ice
die Kuh vom Eis bringen [fig.] to save the situation
eine Fahrstraße durchs Eis brechen to break a channel through the ice
die Autoscheiben (von Eis) freikratzen to scrape (the ice off) the car windows
etw. erst einmal auf Eis legen [fig.] to put sth. into cold storage [fig.] [plan, idea]
Eis {n} nach Fürst-Pückler-Art gastr. Neapolitan ice cream

 

[lefay82]

Well, the politeness is caused rather by the "kan jag" than by the "få". You could also just say "jag får ett glass vin" or "ge mig ett glass vin!" or "viiiiiin!!1" Do you see how politeness decreases by substituting/deleting words and phrases?

yes you're right...but i think is more polite to ask "kan ja få" than "kag jag ha", or am i wrong?

And speaking of "få", this little joke has to be mentioned:

son: far, får får får?
far: nej, får får lamm!
i love it

ahahahah, could i get a sheep? right?
and answer should be (for defiance): no, you can have/get a lamb

far should be the abbreviation for fader.

 

[lefay82]

a thing i havent' understood yet.
i don't know when exactly an article is needed.
i mean you have the definite form : the ball - bollen
the indefinite form: a ball - en boll
but when you don't need to add any kind of article? like in the joke you have mentioned above?
i never know how to translate a word without article...a sheep in that case, or only sheep?

 

[NovembersDirge]

Ha yeah the more you take from it the more it decreases! Can you explain the joke? I want to laugh, I don't get the 'lamm' part.

Really, there are two ways to interpret this joke: and it will not be funny once it has been explained, as with all jokes:

Får is a sheep. Får is also the verb "to receive". So either it could be a kid asking "Can I? Can I? Can I?" or it could be a kid asking a question "Do sheep have sheep?" to which his father replies "No, sheep have lambs." See. Not funny. Though I did laugh the first time I saw it. It's the kind of joke my dad would tell, sadly..

In reference to your question: that can be hard. The article is used when you're speaking about a specific thing. I still have issues with this as well, because Swedes talk about generalities with and without articles and it's hard for me to know when. Often times you talk about, for example, THE global capitalism or THE feminism, things that you would never talk about that way in English. Får is also a strange word because it doesn't have a plural form, or well, it does, but it's the same as the singular. Also, it doesn't have an article because you're talking about sheep in general. The kid isn't asking about a specific sheep, and therefore it doesn't need an article.