Learning Swedish?

[Elvina]

hey i didn't see you moved it here, neat hehe

I've always wanted to learn Polska and Cymraeg (Welsh), I love languages that have few people that speak them . I'll learn Svenska first, and then probably move on to Welsh. Because Celtic languages are awesome. I mean, how can you beat a name for a city like this?

Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, i.e. St Mary's Church (Llanfair) in the hollow (pwll) of the white hazel (gwyngyll) near (goger) the rapid whirlpool (y chwyrndrobwll) and the church of St Tysilio (llantysilio) by the red cave ([a]g ogo goch).

Epic, simply epic.

lollll it made me think of Finnish... for ex. different verb forms of "to jump":

hypätä "to jump", hyppiä "to be jumping", hypeksiä "to be jumping wantonly", hypäyttää "to make someone jump once", hyppyyttää "to make someone jump repeatedly" (or "to boss someone around"), hyppyytyttää "to make someone to cause a third person to jump repeatedly", hyppyytellä "to, without aim, make someone jump repeatedly", hypähtää "to jump suddenly" (in anticausative meaning), hypellä "to jump around repeatedly", hypiskellä "to be jumping repeatedly and wantonly", hyppimättä "without jumping", hyppelemättä "without jumping around". Often the diversity and compactness of this agglutination is illustrated with juoksentelisinkohan "I wonder if I should run around aimlessly".

after i read this, i doubted i would ever be able to learn Finnish! but i want to! I would love to learn so many languages! i just don't have the patience to seriously learn a language just for the sake of it

 

[Sigurðr]

Hehe, finnish is pretty hard
The worst part is the SPOKEN finnish..its so different from the writen language who already is very different
Ex:
Written language: Minä ( I )
spoken language: Mä
north part (rovaniemi): Minen

This is very easy to see but there are other words that are very different in spoken and written and some dialects like swedish-finnish.
Ex:
written language: Tulen. spoken language: mä tuun (Tulen is a way to tell 'I am coming').

and there are some contractions with the number system too
Ex:
written language: kahdeksan. spoken language:kasi
In finnish we cut the most part of the numbers names when we are counting fast, like a lottery or a hide-and-seek game.
It's like: Y,Ka,Kol,Ne,Vii..etc so it's kindda weird to listen in this way

Hyvää Joulua ja hyvää uutta vuotta

 

[lefay82]

at what age is a child able to speak correct finnish?
sounds like a total madness....

 

[Sigurðr]

at what age is a baby able to speak correct finnish?
sounds like a total madness....

After 8 years the baby-now child will be able to read a 10 phrase book just kidding I really don't know what is the age but I think it's like any language, our brain is very powerful, we have a great adaption system inside our heads.
And the baby will be in a 100% finnish ambient so it will be easy for him/her understand what other people are saying to him/her.
And the easy part of finnish is the spoken part, you talk like is written, there are no differences between the written and the spoken finnish..different from swedish who is totally different when you talk some words.

 

[lefay82]

ahaha i've noticed that baby wasn't the right term so i edited
yes of course childreen are really adaptable and their brains are like sponges, but i suppose it's a very difficult language also for a mothertongue.
i mean if there are 2 thousand ways to say to jump or to go it will take a little time before to understand every shades of meaning...also for a child.

anyway, even if you have oulu written under your avatar i didn't notice you were finnish. i remember you have dark hair and maybe dark eyes so in my immagination you were not from the north

 

[lefay82]

yes i know that not all russians are blond (elvina) not all italians are black (me) and not all finnish are blond (you), we are a sort of circus of freaks , but it's hard to delete a mental clichè you have toward a nation or such...

 

[Sigurðr]

ahaha i've noticed that baby wasn't the right term so i edited
yes of course childreen are really adaptable and their brains are like sponges, but i suppose it's a very difficult language also for a mothertongue.
i mean if there are 2 thousand ways to say to jump or to go it will take a little time before to understand every shades of meaning...also for a child.

anyway, even if you have oulu written under your avatar i didn't notice you were finnish. i remember you have dark hair and maybe dark eyes so in my immagination you were not from the north

Yes, there are a lot of ways to say some variations of an action but you remember the last time you said "to, without aim make someone jump repeatedly" or "to make someone jump repeatedly"? there are a lot of variations but a finn never gonna use all of them once in a lifetime, these variations are for some obscure and rare situation, at least for me , I never needed to say "Hey, yesterday i made someone jump repeatedly"

And well...finland is not made only by blond people, there are a lot of dark-haired finns .. I have light brown hair and green eyes, actually im in brazil right now ^^ i have parents in finland and sweden so 40% of my family is from finland, and 60% is from here in brazil ^^ so now im living here *sadly but true lol* but sometimes i visit my parents but nowadays im in a complicated situation with them so I wont be able to go to europe for a time ):



Edit: yes, its so clichè I lived in oulu for 2..3 years..something like that, but i need to finish my university course here before i go back

 

[Elvina]

wait... i remember a thread you started about going to Scandinavia...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/vintersorg/578035-traveling-trought-scandinavia-off.html

you didn't mention that you parents lived in Finland? or i missed it... i thought you were just going on a vacation there?... now i'm totally confused

 

[Sigurðr]

wait... i remember a thread you started about going to Scandinavia...

http://www.ultimatemetal.com/forum/vintersorg/578035-traveling-trought-scandinavia-off.html

you didn't mention that you parents lived in Finland? or i missed it... i thought you were just going on a vacation there?... now i'm totally confused

yes its complicated but now you mentioned i will explain:
I have parents both in finland and sweden but they are not soo close of me, its from my mother's part..my mother and my father broked up so i stayed with my father..i actually lived in finland but i was too young so i cant remember very well and i dont have a native finnish, actually i prefer swedish than finnish...and nowadays my mother's family part are very away from me..because my father don't like my mother and they just fight :\ so my mother's family part started to fight against my father and i didn't like that so i cutted the relation with them

 

[Elvina]

^ wow!! that sounds very complicated indeed!

yes i know that not all russians are blond (elvina) not all italians are black (me) and not all finnish are blond (you), we are a sort of circus of freaks , but it's hard to delete a mental clichè you have toward a nation or such...

no no, you guys really must adjust your STEREOTYPE of russians - they are not blond at all!! Probably less than 30% of all population. Of course there are all kinds of appearances everywhere, what i'm trying to say is that your mental cliche about russians is even wrong If you think of "a cliche russian" you should imagine someone with light brown hair and medium body length, leave blond giants cliche to scandinavians and the dutch

 

[Sigurðr]

^ wow!! that sounds very complicated indeed!


no no, you guys really must adjust your STEREOTYPE of russians - they are not blond at all!! Probably less than 30% of all population. Of course there are all kinds of appearances everywhere, what i'm trying to say is that your mental cliche about russians is even wrong If you think of "a cliche russian" you should imagine someone with light brown hair and medium body length, leave blond giants cliche to scandinavians and the dutch

you are russian? :OOO that's a surprise for me x) why are you living in the lowlands? Russia is so beautiful *-*

And yes, it's complicated :\ but what im gonna do? ^^' i need to stay here

 

[Elvina]

you are russian? :OOO that's a surprise for me x) why are you living in the lowlands? Russia is so beautiful *-*

And yes, it's complicated : but what im gonna do? ^^' i need to stay here

why do you want to stay in Scandinavia? Brazil is so beautiful and warm!! And the girls are hotter and prettier

I was married to a dutch guy that's why i moved here 10 years ago. At the times i got to know him i was actually almost packing my bags to go to Oslo to work au-pair there. It was my dream to live in Norway since i was 15 so i was making plans to go there. But then i met this dutch guy who was just as crazy about Norway as i was, so we fell in love and i ended up in the Netherlands instead We were going to move to Norway as soon as i would get my dutch passport but by that time we were already living separately... So now i'm stuck here for a while it seems

 

[Sigurðr]

why do you want to stay in Scandinavia? Brazil is so beautiful and warm!! And the girls are hotter and prettier

I was married to a dutch guy that's why i moved here 10 years ago. At the times i got to know him i was actually almost packing my bags to go to Oslo to work au-pair there. It was my dream to live in Norway since i was 15 so i was making plans to go there. But then i met this dutch guy who was just as crazy about Norway as i was, so we fell in love and i ended up in the Netherlands instead We were going to move to Norway as soon as i would get my dutch passport but by that time we were already living separately... So now i'm stuck here for a while it seems

Oh, what a sad situation ): but the lowlands are beautiful too
because i don't like warm weather and the europe and 'outside' world just see the beautiful part of brazil, here we have too much traffic problems and the metal scene isn't too strong..and i miss trees and nature like sweden )': here we have but its very different

 

[Defiance]

Holy crap lots of stuff to quote, 2:08 here but nothing else to do whilst listening to the new Ace of Base.

hey i didn't see you moved it here, neat hehe


lollll it made me think of Finnish... for ex. different verb forms of "to jump":hypätä "to jump", hyppiä "to be jumping", hypeksiä "to be jumping wantonly", hypäyttää "to make someone jump once", hyppyyttää "to make someone jump repeatedly" (or "to boss someone around"), hyppyytyttää "to make someone to cause a third person to jump repeatedly", hyppyytellä "to, without aim, make someone jump repeatedly", hypähtää "to jump suddenly" (in anticausative meaning), hypellä "to jump around repeatedly", hypiskellä "to be jumping repeatedly and wantonly", hyppimättä "without jumping", hyppelemättä "without jumping around". Often the diversity and compactness of this agglutination is illustrated with juoksentelisinkohan "I wonder if I should run around aimlessly".
after i read this, i doubted i would ever be able to learn Finnish! but i want to! I would love to learn so many languages! i just don't have the patience to seriously learn a language just for the sake of it

Rosetta Stone, Rosetta Stone! It's working quite well for me with Svenska, although I don't think there's Suomi. Well when you put words like that, without context, they'll obviously seem quite difficult. But if you study them in a (cultural) context they won't be so hard.

Hehe, finnish is pretty hard
The worst part is the SPOKEN finnish..its so different from the writen language who already is very different
Ex:
Written language: Minä ( I )
spoken language: Mä
north part (rovaniemi): Minen

This is very easy to see but there are other words that are very different in spoken and written and some dialects like swedish-finnish.
Ex:
written language: Tulen. spoken language: mä tuun (Tulen is a way to tell 'I am coming').

and there are some contractions with the number system too
Ex:
written language: kahdeksan. spoken language:kasi
In finnish we cut the most part of the numbers names when we are counting fast, like a lottery or a hide-and-seek game.
It's like: Y,Ka,Kol,Ne,Vii..etc so it's kindda weird to listen in this way

Hyvää Joulua ja hyvää uutta vuotta

I don't think Finnish is particularly hard, Cymraeg (Welsh) seems more difficult. The thing is that it sounds quite different to our ears because we're used to Indo-European languages, whilst Finnish (and Hungarian) is an Uralic one, a totally different branch.

Most languages have different forms of written and spoken languages IMO, but those differences are stronger in other languages. Take Norsk, you have Bokmål and Nynorsk.

Although the Swedish-Finnish variation seems to be quite complicated. That's what the guys from Finntroll speak, right? At least Vreth, I think. I want to be able to say something in Svenska to them when they come here, but they probably won't understand standard Swedish accent .

at what age is a child able to speak correct finnish?
sounds like a total madness....

Just like any normal child, why should it be any different?

Yes, there are a lot of ways to say some variations of an action but you remember the last time you said "to, without aim make someone jump repeatedly" or "to make someone jump repeatedly"? there are a lot of variations but a finn never gonna use all of them once in a lifetime, these variations are for some obscure and rare situation, at least for me , I never needed to say "Hey, yesterday i made someone jump repeatedly"

And well...finland is not made only by blond people, there are a lot of dark-haired finns .. I have light brown hair and green eyes, actually im in brazil right now ^^ i have parents in finland and sweden so 40% of my family is from finland, and 60% is from here in brazil ^^ so now im living here *sadly but true lol* but sometimes i visit my parents but nowadays im in a complicated situation with them so I wont be able to go to europe for a time ):

Edit: yes, its so clichè I lived in oulu for 2..3 years..something like that, but i need to finish my university course here before i go back

Yeah not all the guys from CoB or Stratovarius are blond . Ah I wasn't sure if you were Finnish or what, I was so bloody confused to be honest. Thanks for clearing that up.

yes its complicated but now you mentioned i will explain:
I have parents both in finland and sweden but they are not soo close of me, its from my mother's part..my mother and my father broked up so i stayed with my father..i actually lived in finland but i was too young so i cant remember very well and i dont have a native finnish, actually i prefer swedish than finnish...and nowadays my mother's family part are very away from me..because my father don't like my mother and they just fight : so my mother's family part started to fight against my father and i didn't like that so i cutted the relation with them

Ah well that sucks, I've seen first hand how hard a divorce can be on the children. But hey, as long as you're happy down there in Brasil it's fine .

^ wow!! that sounds very complicated indeed!


no no, you guys really must adjust your STEREOTYPE of russians - they are not blond at all!! Probably less than 30% of all population. Of course there are all kinds of appearances everywhere, what i'm trying to say is that your mental cliche about russians is even wrong If you think of "a cliche russian" you should imagine someone with light brown hair and medium body length, leave blond giants cliche to scandinavians and the dutch

The problem is that here in Western countries all Russians are presented like that. But hey, I just think of Rasputin; he wasn't blond. Remember Rasputin! p.)

why do you want to stay in Scandinavia? Brazil is so beautiful and warm!! And the girls are hotter and prettier

I was married to a dutch guy that's why i moved here 10 years ago. At the times i got to know him i was actually almost packing my bags to go to Oslo to work au-pair there. It was my dream to live in Norway since i was 15 so i was making plans to go there. But then i met this dutch guy who was just as crazy about Norway as i was, so we fell in love and i ended up in the Netherlands instead. We were going to move to Norway as soon as i would get my dutch passport but by that time we were already living separately... So now i'm stuck here for a while it seems

It's a matter of taste, I prefer cold countries, and can't wait to get out of here. Brasil seems a fine place to visit, but for me not for living. It depends on the girls, I think CRn girls are prettier hehe. I guess you should try to move to Norge since Nederlanden is going to sink .

 

[lefay82]

^ wow!! that sounds very complicated indeed!


no no, you guys really must adjust your STEREOTYPE of russians - they are not blond at all!! Probably less than 30% of all population. Of course there are all kinds of appearances everywhere, what i'm trying to say is that your mental cliche about russians is even wrong If you think of "a cliche russian" you should imagine someone with light brown hair and medium body length, leave blond giants cliche to scandinavians and the dutch

my sterotype of russian girls is not blond, but dark haired instead with icy blue eyes.
blond people lives in the north, scandinavia, holland, belgium and germany.
the spanish and portuguese are dark haired and dark skinned (a little bit arabian) and also the italians (mainly in the south of italy) and the greeks.
we don't have a particular stereotype about eastern contries like romania, bulgaria or hungary, the population in quite mixed, blond, brown and black haired, they are mostly know for prostitution, sorry to say that, but most of prostitutes that you find in italian streets are from there (or they are brasilian trans )
the frenchs sound gay and they are frog-eaters
the english are pale and with washed brown hair, while the irish are red haired with blu/green eyes and freckles.

i find this site some time ago, i had lot of fun to see how europe and the world are seen through the eyes of various nations:

http://alphadesigner.com/project-mapping-stereotypes.html

europe seen by the vatican is one of the best maps!!!!

 

[lefay82]

Just like any normal child, why should it be any different?

becuase children tend to use simple words at first, then they widen their dictionary with synonyms, so you if you have 10 ways to say a single action like to jump i think it will take a little bit more to leanr everything. but sigurd explained that not all this ways are used, so the situation is probably less tragic than i figured out

 

[NovembersDirge]

I just want to make a shout out to Brazilian chicks.

Brazilian chicks are hot.

That is all.

 

[Sigurðr]

I don't think Finnish is particularly hard, Cymraeg (Welsh) seems more difficult. The thing is that it sounds quite different to our ears because we're used to Indo-European languages, whilst Finnish (and Hungarian) is an Uralic one, a totally different branch.

Most languages have different forms of written and spoken languages IMO, but those differences are stronger in other languages. Take Norsk, you have Bokmål and Nynorsk.

Although the Swedish-Finnish variation seems to be quite complicated. That's what the guys from Finntroll speak, right? At least Vreth, I think. I want to be able to say something in Svenska to them when they come here, but they probably won't understand standard Swedish accent .

The guys from finntroll speaks standart swedish, as far as i remember there is only one song in finnish,"Madon Laulu" from Visor Om Slutet.
But yeah, that finnish-swedish *finsk * is pretty alien to me, i can't understand a simple phrase
But now you mentioned, it's difficult because it's different, most part of the languages are in some patterns that finnish isn't, like the example from lefay, many forms to say 'to jump' you don't writte these forms in a phrase..you make one word..you derive that word in many forms..that's the main difference.. i think the most close language from finnish is estonian, but it's not like norwegian bokmål and swedish, but you can understand some things. And the other problem is that these languages are rich in specific ancient words, like Hiiekoda in estonian that means an ancient sacred wood building,but how the hell we will know that?I only know because i love metsatöll

Yeah not all the guys from CoB or Stratovarius are blond . Ah I wasn't sure if you were Finnish or what, I was so bloody confused to be honest. Thanks for clearing that up.

Normal i think im more brazillian than finnish, but well..i was raised in finland and i had a finn-creation but for just a few years.

Ah well that sucks, I've seen first hand how hard a divorce can be on the children. But hey, as long as you're happy down there in Brasil it's fine .

yes, but i prefer cold countries and the european culture...but here i have some good moments too so i think i can handle myself here ^^'


EDIT:

I just want to make a shout out to Brazilian chicks.

Brazilian chicks are hot.

That is all.

hehe, really?

 

[Defiance]

my sterotype of russian girls is not blond, but dark haired instead with icy blue eyes.
blond people lives in the north, scandinavia, holland, belgium and germany.
the spanish and portuguese are dark haired and dark skinned (a little bit arabian) and also the italians (mainly in the south of italy) and the greeks.
we don't have a particular stereotype about eastern contries like romania, bulgaria or hungary, the population in quite mixed, blond, brown and black haired, they are mostly know for prostitution, sorry to say that, but most of prostitutes that you find in italian streets are from there (or they are brasilian trans )
the frenchs sound gay and they are frog-eaters
the english are pale and with washed brown hair, while the irish are red haired with blu/green eyes and freckles.

i find this site some time ago, i had lot of fun to see how europe and the world are seen through the eyes of various nations:

europe seen by the vatican is one of the best maps!!!!

Yeah, most of the prostitutes of Central Europe are from the eastern part of the continent. Ever seen Eastern Promises? If not, you should.

WHen you go get a prostitute in Brasil you've to go to specific parts so that you don't get the transvestites.

becuase children tend to use simple words at first, then they widen their dictionary with synonyms, so you if you have 10 ways to say a single action like to jump i think it will take a little bit more to leanr everything. but sigurd explained that not all this ways are used, so the situation is probably less tragic than i figured out

But words will be words, even if it seems difficult to you, it won't be to the children learning the language because children are simply absorbing the sounds; they don't distinguish one language from another. They don't know it's a "language", they're simply learning various sounds and ("grammatical") forms.

You should read the book I'm translating into ESP: [ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Little-Book-Language-Histories/dp/0300155336"]Little-Book-of-Language [/ame]

The guys from finntroll speaks standart swedish, as far as i remember there is only one song in finnish,"Madon Laulu" from Visor Om Slutet.
But yeah, that finnish-swedish *finsk * is pretty alien to me, i can't understand a simple phrase
But now you mentioned, it's difficult because it's different, most part of the languages are in some patterns that finnish isn't, like the example from lefay, many forms to say 'to jump' you don't writte these forms in a phrase..you make one word..you derive that word in many forms..that's the main difference.. i think the closest language to Finnish is Estonian, but it's not like norwegian bokmål and swedish, but you can understand some things. And the other problem is that these languages are rich in specific ancient words, like Hiiekoda in estonian that means an ancient sacred wood building,but how the hell we will know that?I only know because i love metsatöll

Normal i think im more brazillian than finnish, but well..i was raised in finland and i had a finn-creation but for just a few years.

yes, but i prefer cold countries and the european culture...but here i have some good moments too so i think i can handle myself here ^^'

They speak standard Swedish? I thought they spoke finlandssvenska. I think that at least Vreth (vocalist) does. I must seize the opportunity of these guys coming here to CR and record them; it shall be an interesting linguistic analysis.

The Hiiekoda info is very interesting, and I'll listen to Metsatöll. Thanks for the recommendation!

Apparently there are three variations of Svenska:

Standard Swedish · Finland Swedish · Åland Swedish

and several "dialects":

Gotländska mål · Götamål · Norrländska mål · Östsvenska mål: Ostrobothnian · Sveamål: Stockholmska · Rinkebysvenska · Uppländska · Gnällbältet · Sydsvenska mål: Skånska · Småländska

And there's even a flag for Swedish speaking Finns, quite interesting:

 

[Elvina]

my sterotype of russian girls is not blond, but dark haired instead with icy blue eyes.
blond people lives in the north, scandinavia, holland, belgium and germany.
the spanish and portuguese are dark haired and dark skinned (a little bit arabian) and also the italians (mainly in the south of italy) and the greeks.
we don't have a particular stereotype about eastern contries like romania, bulgaria or hungary, the population in quite mixed, blond, brown and black haired, they are mostly know for prostitution, sorry to say that, but most of prostitutes that you find in italian streets are from there (or they are brasilian trans )
the frenchs sound gay and they are frog-eaters
the english are pale and with washed brown hair, while the irish are red haired with blu/green eyes and freckles.

i find this site some time ago, i had lot of fun to see how europe and the world are seen through the eyes of various nations:

http://alphadesigner.com/project-mapping-stereotypes.html

europe seen by the vatican is one of the best maps!!!!

omg lmfao!!! thnx for this awesome link!

it's funny how on almost all maps Denmark is called "Vikings", and Norway is called "Heathen tribes" pretty often