Learning Swedish?

[Vildvarg]

^ Toll! Vielen dank!

in Swedish people say "verstoch itte" right? There was this woman telling me some phrases in Swedish because she heard me speaking German . Funny that it's quite similar to Norse's "ikke."

I went to a conference by a famous woman here about Cultural and Linguistic Diversity in Asia, it was immensely interesting! I sure learnt a lot.

Thenb I got to my German class and flunked a written test :Smug: . I didn't study, so I think it went pretty well anyhow hehe.

I never heard a swed say "verstoch itte" :S

 

[Defiance]

Nichts zu danken!



Do you mean "Förstår inte" (Don't understand)? ^^

Haha yes yes, I only know a bit Norwegian and no Swedish, so I basically did some weird "Deutsvenk" or something .

 

[paradoxile]

Is it me or are there some Dr. Daniel Jackson fans here? I'm talking about the Stargate SG1 character, not the actor obviously.
that guy is bloody multilingual.

 

[Mantraschism]

If you're at all interested in Old Norse, you must get E. V. Gordon's An Introduction to Old Norse. With its finely selected samples of prose (both in Old West Norse and Old East Norse), grammar, and, perhaps most interestingly, its introduction, which discusses at length the history and evolution of the Old Norse language, this book is just indispensable.

As to the question of Ancient Swedish being the same as Old Norse, this is only partly true. It is certainly true that it is Old East Norse, but it's only half of OEN; you surely wouldn't call the runic inscriptions in Denmark AS, would you? They're AD. And of course there were slight differences in these two dialects, which only began more apparent with time, resulting in Old Swedish and Old Danish, by which time you could safely call Old East Norse extinct. The same goes for OWN. Icelandic and Faroese, owing to their geological isolation from their birthplaces, became distinctly separate from Norwegian, which could be viewed as their progenitor. Norwegian (like its mainland siblings) 'progressed' much faster, while the other two Old West Norse languages (not counting Norn) lagged behind (happily). Yet at one time, they were all simply Old West Norse, with small dialectical differences at first, which grew vastly for the reason I have already explained. If you look at Old Norwegian and Old Icelandic, you can see how close they are, but not identical (with spelling differences being the most obvious distinction). So, yeah, all the same once, but eventually quite different. The continental Scandinavian languages are obviously the most similar and most 'modern', and could really be considered parts of a 'dialect continuum', except for the nationalistic and historical factors that result in these countries' insistence that they're different languages. Oh well, they're all great, except for Danish, which turned out pretty shitty. I'm inclined to blame its proximity to non-Scandinavian countries for this, although I imagine that rural Danish isn't so bad.

Now that I've got that out of the way, I'll address the real topic: learning Swedish. I've got back into trying to learn Swedish, myself, and I've been using Rosetta Stone for that. I was using Teach Yourself in the past, but I don't have it with me, and anyway online Rosetta Stone is easier to use at work. I can't say how good it is right now, as I'm only on Unit 2, but I'm enjoying it. I also got myself a dictionary a few years ago, and occasionally I apply its use to wading through Swedish texts. That's probably not the best way to go about learning a language, but I like it, so I persist. Sorry if that's not very helpful, but since I can't say that I've successfully 'learned Swedish' yet, I'm not much more knowledgeable about how to learn it than you are. Just keep at it. My biggest problem has been that I take long periods (talking many months) of time off, and when I finally come back, I've forgotten a lot of stuff. Don't do that, heheh. Best of luck to you!

Ryan

P.S. The other day, I encountered the word 'faanga' ('to catch), and I immediately had 'Faangad Utav Nordens Sjael' stuck in my head. =] (Sorry I can't type the actual letters on this laptop.)

 

[Defiance]

^ Thanks a lot for the book recommendation and explanation!

I have pretty much the same problem as you, I've been trying to study again Norsk, but it was really impossible with German and a M.A. . It makes me sad because Norwegian seemed like a fairly easy language to learn, the German bases really helped a lot (right now I can only remember that the words for church (die Kirche) were pretty similar).

I've thought about buying the Rosetta too but they don't have for Norwegian yet, so booooooo.

 

[Thidrek]

P.S. The other day, I encountered the word 'faanga' ('to catch), and I immediately had 'Faangad Utav Nordens Sjael' stuck in my head. =] (Sorry I can't type the actual letters on this laptop.)

I never understood that sentence. What's it supposed to mean? "Catched out of the soul of the North"? Sounds strange...

If you want to write å, press ALT and type 0229 on the num block. Using a laptop you can press the fn key to activate the num block, as long it's not a very old-fashioned notebook.

I have pretty much the same problem as you, I've been trying to study again Norsk, but it was really impossible with German and a M.A. . It makes me sad because Norwegian seemed like a fairly easy language to learn, the German bases really helped a lot (right now I can only remember that the words for church (die Kirche) were pretty similar).

Should be "kyrke" The consonants seem to be reversed in actual speech

 

[Mantraschism]

Yeah, 'Caught Out of the North's Soul'. I don't really get it, either.

 

[amf]

Yeah, 'Caught Out of the North's Soul'. I don't really get it, either.

It means "Captured by the spirit of the North".

 

[Defiance]

Should be "kyrke" The consonants seem to be reversed in actual speech

That's it, takk . I was too tired too think at that moment hehe.

 

[Mantraschism]

It means "Captured by the spirit of the North".

Oh, thanks! How come it's 'utav' and not just 'av'? Does that change the meaning?

 

[Gaunerin]

Nope, it has the same meaning. I've once read an article about the use of the words and if I remember correctly so is "utav" generally informal.

 

[tobz]

It's an older form of the same word. Still used, but very rarely...

 

[Svarthjärtad]

If you're at all interested in Old Norse, you must P.S. The other day, I encountered the word 'faanga' ('to catch), and I immediately had 'Faangad Utav Nordens Sjael' stuck in my head. =] (Sorry I can't type the actual letters on this laptop.)

I cannot speak for all Swedes, but most people that I know, do not understand like that. When people write me using them, I get confused a bit, but I can understand it some. Most people would just have you write "Fangad" instead of "Faangad" for Fångad.
And people normally do not understand the songtexts of Mr. V, people do not speak like this. If you honestly want to learn Swedish, he is not the way to go. Hehe. People will look at you like a quesion mark. I suggest Nordman or like Blåkulla or something. This way, people can understand and you'll get a good catch of how you pronounce.
Oh yeah, do not listen to hiphopars like Rullar Fram! or... Markoolio! Hehe. You can listen to Solar Plexus! Hehe.

No meaning to be criticle, just informative.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

Utav is a word I use actually. It's RARELY used. But, there is a bit of a slight change of the words of my understanding. You can use it, but most people don't know. Like "ulv"! It is old word, folk now use 'varg'.

 

[lefay82]

i wonder how is it possibile that swedish is so changed in time that you're not able to understand vintersorg texts?
i've tried to translate some texts and they are quite difficult for me cause i'm learning, but i'm using a good online dictionary and nearly almost all the words i find in his lyrics are also on the dictionary, so that should mean they are still in use, am i wrong!?!
i know that languages change in time, but it sounds strange that swedes are not able to read things written one ore two centuries before....
speaking of italian, it has changed too of course, but we are still able to read Dante which is from the IVX century without big problems (i'm speaking for the Inferno and Purgatorio which are written in a more vulgar language, because the Paradiso is very hard also for us), maybe it's just because we have tons of old litterature we are forced to study at school, so some poetic and old therms were not lost in time....like disio which is desiderio in modern language (=wish) or tosto which as become subito (immediatly) or poscia which as become poi (later), guatare which is not used anymore but means guardare intensamente (to look intensely) and so on and on

 

[Mantraschism]

I cannot speak for all Swedes, but most people that I know, do not understand like that. When people write me using them, I get confused a bit, but I can understand it some. Most people would just have you write "Fangad" instead of "Faangad" for Fångad.
And people normally do not understand the songtexts of Mr. V, people do not speak like this. If you honestly want to learn Swedish, he is not the way to go. Hehe. People will look at you like a quesion mark. I suggest Nordman or like Blåkulla or something. This way, people can understand and you'll get a good catch of how you pronounce.
Oh yeah, do not listen to hiphopars like Rullar Fram! or... Markoolio! Hehe. You can listen to Solar Plexus! Hehe.

No meaning to be criticle, just informative.

Well, it's my understanding that, if you can't use the diacritics, it's best to use 'aa', 'ae', and 'oe'. Maybe that's only for Norwegian and Danish.... Don't see why it would be, though.

I don't really use Vintersorg to learn Swedish, by the way. It just reminded me of that song.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

OH yes! I know Norwegians and Dans use it sometimes and so do Swedes, but it is very uncommon. What I mean when I says, a normal person from a pub may not understand that text.

Some of the words used are being used, but very rarely. Like uncommon! It is not that these words are not part of the language anymore, but not just being taught. Hmmm... depends on the area, really. The seniors of Sweden would have a better chance understanding these texts before a modern-day teenager. To be quite honest, dialect or area has a lot to do with the words. As I said in the past, people of Skåne speak a lot different than say a person from Åre or something. I don't mean to keep picking on the people Skåne. Hehe. I just find their language a bit rough and discusting. Hehe. A bit hard to understand because I don't really speak much to them.
So... it is not that people just cannot understand these texts, but this way of speaking is just uncommon. Not just the words, but the way of speaking as well, the word-order and stuff. I don't know Itailan, so I really don't know much what you're talking about. But what I mean or try to say, is that these texts aren't just "weird" so to say because of the old words, but dialect, the word-order... it's not exactly common Swedish.

Take this for an example!
Hiphopars use a certain form of Swedish called "Rinkeby" or "Rinkebysvenska" to be percise. This is a mix of a lot of different languages - Spanish, Afrian, and a lot of mid-eastern languages goes into this form. This is utterly (to me) just fucking uncomprehendable (not to mention silly). As you would say something like Hallå or Hej, you would say (I think) Sho bre!
This is common, mostly in southern Sweden but largely populated areas like Stockholm and Malmö or Göteborg.
This form is unknown to certain poeple, just like the V-texts are unknown. So you see what I say?

 

[braddtatum]

go to sweden then, or take some lessons with some swedish mothertongues.

i'm studying swedish by myself and i can assure you i can understand written texts but i cannot speak or understand people who speak.

I'm in the same boat with Norwegian here. I have been studying it for years out of books and I can read well, write poorly and not really communicate orally worth a damn at all. When I was in Sweden however, my Norwegian book study kicked into gear and I was quickly speaking broken Swedish (because the two languages are very similar) but as soon as we left it wore off... maybe I should just move to Scandinavia like I have been dreaming of!

 

[lefay82]

OH yes! I know Norwegians and Dans use it sometimes and so do Swedes, but it is very uncommon. What I mean when I says, a normal person from a pub may not understand that text.

Some of the words used are being used, but very rarely. Like uncommon! It is not that these words are not part of the language anymore, but not just being taught. Hmmm... depends on the area, really. The seniors of Sweden would have a better chance understanding these texts before a modern-day teenager. To be quite honest, dialect or area has a lot to do with the words. As I said in the past, people of Skåne speak a lot different than say a person from Åre or something. I don't mean to keep picking on the people Skåne. Hehe. I just find their language a bit rough and discusting. Hehe. A bit hard to understand because I don't really speak much to them.
So... it is not that people just cannot understand these texts, but this way of speaking is just uncommon. Not just the words, but the way of speaking as well, the word-order and stuff. I don't know Itailan, so I really don't know much what you're talking about. But what I mean or try to say, is that these texts aren't just "weird" so to say because of the old words, but dialect, the word-order... it's not exactly common Swedish.

Take this for an example!
Hiphopars use a certain form of Swedish called "Rinkeby" or "Rinkebysvenska" to be percise. This is a mix of a lot of different languages - Spanish, Afrian, and a lot of mid-eastern languages goes into this form. This is utterly (to me) just fucking uncomprehendable (not to mention silly). As you would say something like Hallå or Hej, you would say (I think) Sho bre!
This is common, mostly in southern Sweden but largely populated areas like Stockholm and Malmö or Göteborg.
This form is unknown to certain poeple, just like the V-texts are unknown. So you see what I say?

i'm trying to understand!
we have the dialects problem in italy too, if you go in the north or in the south two different tongues are spoken but we still have an official form, the correct italian language which is spoken and understood by everyone when we have to dialogate between each other.
from what you are explaining (sorry if i understood wrong) it seems to me that swedish hasn't an official form ....i quote what you say ---> some words are not part of the language anymore or just not being taught, depends on the area.
it is like the language has broken up in many diverse realities.
i mean, how is seen a person who speaks a dialect there? is it normal or is it seen as a form of backwardness? here dialect are sometimes seen like a form of ignorance, you can speak your dialect when you're at home, with friend, but not in public occasion or at work, at school you're taught to speak correct and there should not be italian words of which you don't know the meaning.
i'm speaking of myself, i live in the centre/north of italy, i know that in the south the situation is different, dialect are heavier and much spoken than here, and there's fewer people who use correct italian in common situation, but there's lesser instruction too....not for being racist, but this is how things are... the south is a little bit underdeveloped for some reasons.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

Official form? Yes and no. I would say that the people in Stockholm have a more general form of speaking. Some people say they have no dialect, but I slightly disagree. The Swedish that you read on webpages is, I would say, a standard form. Speaking and writing are two different things you know, I write better English than I speak. Hehe. And that being said, since I have moved to USA and speak a lot more English, a lot of my Swedish has turned into like a Swenglish or something like that. Lately, my Swedish is more English-oriented. Anotherwords, not it's true form. My dialect is actually of Färgelanda, obviously, but I was taught from parents of Åre and of Umeå. Why we lived in Färgelanda of all places... I have no idea.