Learning Swedish?

[Defiance]

i'm speaking of myself, i live in the centre/north of italy, i know that in the south the situation is different, dialect are heavier and much spoken than here, and there's fewer people who use correct italian in common situation, but there's lesser instruction too....not for being racist, but this is how things are... the south is a little bit underdeveloped for some reasons.

Haha I totally understand you. My girlfriend is Italian, her family was from Torino/Milano and she's like you, she can't stand the people from the South .

I guess the South is underdeveloped because of the Mafia, isn't it?

Oh, and her grandma (or great-grandma, I'm not sure) took care of Mussolini's dogs (don't know how that's a good thing though).

 

[Svarthjärtad]

You see, Swedish is a difficult language, but not as difficult as Norwegian. I don't know, never really tried learning it, myself. Although, Svenska and Norska are alike in some ways, so that gives me a more ahead. But, even now... my Swedish isn't how it was, because I speak so much English now- I have to.
But you know, Sweden.... everybody speaks English there. We have a big problem with Arabics people here. Or not only them, but immigrants. Our government says: "Here have appartment, have job, have money... here, for free!". Hehe. The childrens know more Swedish than adults, but still... not many immigrans know it. We have to use more English nowadays. What is Sweden comming to? AERGH! They say if you're proud to be Swedish, you are Nationalist/Nazi and racist. Hehe. STUPID IDEA! I am proud of who I am, neverless even if I was whatever, ummm... Croation or something! But if you hate being Swedish, you are like trader and a disgrace of Scandinavia. It really does not make any sense to me. AERGH!
Damn people!

 

[Svarthjärtad]

Heh... sorry for that little rant. Hehe. It does not deal with subject.
I am so very angry right now at this.

 

[paradoxile]

You see, Swedish is a difficult language, but not as difficult as Norwegian. I don't know, never really tried learning it, myself. Although, Svenska and Norska are alike in some ways, so that gives me a more ahead. But, even now... my Swedish isn't how it was, because I speak so much English now- I have to.
But you know, Sweden.... everybody speaks English there. We have a big problem with Arabics people here. Or not only them, but immigrants. Our government says: "Here have appartment, have job, have money... here, for free!". Hehe. The childrens know more Swedish than adults, but still... not many immigrans know it. We have to use more English nowadays. What is Sweden comming to? AERGH! They say if you're proud to be Swedish, you are Nationalist/Nazi and racist. Hehe. STUPID IDEA! I am proud of who I am, neverless even if I was whatever, ummm... Croation or something! But if you hate being Swedish, you are like trader and a disgrace of Scandinavia. It really does not make any sense to me. AERGH!
Damn people!

I imagine you're talking about Nynorsk and not Bokmål...they are pretty close from a nonscandinavian look.
Children always learn the language better and faster than their parents...kids' minds are like a sponge. it took me about three-four months to be fluent in hebrew when i was 7 and came to israel. and i learned english from watching tv...mostly american shows with hebrew subtitles...my parents however still have a russian accent when they speak hebrew and still ask for my help in spell checking and frasing letters to whoever. my parents english is not that well either...the reason for that is that they mostly watch russian channels where everything is either in russian or dubbed to russian while israeli channels use subtitles.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

Hehe. The new way of speaking Norwegian is strange. Like instead of just saying "jeg", they say "eg". It is almost like a slang or something. And from the east coast people, they call westernfolk like 'rednecks'. Hehe. Norwegian and Swedish are fairly alike, but not the same. Don't quote me on this, but the word order is different. I don't know too much about it. I know it to hear it and can pretty much make it out what a person says, but really cannot speak it myself. At Sweden Rock Festival, I met some cool Norwegians there, and we spoke to another in our own language. True, there were few things we did not understand, but we asked. If you look at all Scandinavian languages, yes they do look alike, but for people like us...they do not. It is really easy to tell actually - mainly the vowels. The vowels are the key thing you see!
For an example, the "fjäll" word. In Norsk, it is "fjell" färd...ferd /själl...sjell, etc...

Swedish is very difficult, as I'm sure as most Norse are. You have to bend words around to make them make sense. Example: You have the word 'band' and 'bandet'. You may thing 'bandet' means plural? Nope! 'Band' means like any or many bands, but 'bandet' would mean something like a certain specific band. Jag älskar det här bandet! (I love this band!) or you can use 'denna' instead of 'det här'. You really have to be kind of precise on what you say and have it in the correct word order. As of a sign of emotion also, you have to use certain words.

I don't know very many languages. Actually, none other than SWE and ENG. at least fluently! Is this how it is in Hebrew, Italian, or whatever languages you folk speak?

 

[Lupskalla]

Swedish is really easy to learn!
I don't know why but I don't feel like you are swedish SVART, are you?

 

[lefay82]

Hehe. The new way of speaking Norwegian is strange. Like instead of just saying "jeg", they say "eg". It is almost like a slang or something. And from the east coast people, they call westernfolk like 'rednecks'. Hehe. Norwegian and Swedish are fairly alike, but not the same. Don't quote me on this, but the word order is different. I don't know too much about it. I know it to hear it and can pretty much make it out what a person says, but really cannot speak it myself. At Sweden Rock Festival, I met some cool Norwegians there, and we spoke to another in our own language. True, there were few things we did not understand, but we asked. If you look at all Scandinavian languages, yes they do look alike, but for people like us...they do not. It is really easy to tell actually - mainly the vowels. The vowels are the key thing you see!
For an example, the "fjäll" word. In Norsk, it is "fjell" färd...ferd /själl...sjell, etc...

Swedish is very difficult, as I'm sure as most Norse are. You have to bend words around to make them make sense. Example: You have the word 'band' and 'bandet'. You may thing 'bandet' means plural? Nope! 'Band' means like any or many bands, but 'bandet' would mean something like a certain specific band. Jag älskar det här bandet! (I love this band!) or you can use 'denna' instead of 'det här'. You really have to be kind of precise on what you say and have it in the correct word order. As of a sign of emotion also, you have to use certain words.

I don't know very many languages. Actually, none other than SWE and ENG. at least fluently! Is this how it is in Hebrew, Italian, or whatever languages you folk speak?

i do only speak italian fluently and a bit of english
i studied german at school but you know, if you don't have a continue practice you forget it, and now i have forgot nearly everything about german grammar which is quite difficult! i remember only few basic things

speaking of my own language i can assure it's very hard to speak, for a stranger, somethimes also for us
the grammar is the hardest thing, the verbs conjugations are like a labirynth from which you never get out. some italians still use wrong tenses when we speak of conditional tenses or conjuntive tenses.
for example we have 8 tenses for the indicative, and the hardest thing is that the verb changes from a person to another.
for example to play at the present tense becomes
io gioco = i play
tu giochi = you play
egli gioca = he plays
noi giochiamo =we play
voi giocate = you play
essi giocano = they play

to play is a regular verb so it's quite easy, let's speak about an irregular one, to go
io vado
tu vai
egli va
noi andiamo
voi andate
essi vanno

quite strange isnt' it????

and this is only the simple present tense....
we have 7 other tenses
io ho giocato = i have played
io giocavo = i played
io avevo giocato = i had played
io giocai = i played
io ebbi giocato = i had played
io giochero = i will play
io avro giocato = i will have played

as you can see we have 5 kinds of past tenses which are used to explain the contemporaneity of two actions or when an actions hasn't ended yet.
for example
yesterday i played football : ieri ho giocato a football (action is ended but not far the past)
last month i played football: lo scorso mese giocai a football (action has ended and happened in a very distant past)
while i was playing i hurted my foot: mentre giocavo mi ruppi il piede (giocavo is still a past tense but the action is continue, because while i was doing an action another happened)
and so on

we have 4 tenses of conjuntive and 2 for conditional....but i have no idea of how to explain them to you!
we have also tree conjugations, the verbs divide themselves into 3 groups, because they have 3 kinds of endings and they behave in different ways.
the groups are ARE, ERE, IRE
gioc-ARE = to play
rid-ERE = to smile
ven-IRE = to come

and after that we have tons of irregular verbs, the most part of verbs from the third conjugation is irregular :zombie:

okey i should stop here

 

[Thidrek]

plz, come on, nowadays' Romanic languages are so easy when it comes to grammar. 3 verb classes German has about 9 irregular ones plus one regular one (regular != easy )

And adjectives bend another way depending on whether they are attached to a noun with a definite or an infinite article:

der große Stein
des großen Steins
den großen Stein
dem großen Stein

BUT

ein großer Stein
eines großen Steines
einen großen Stein
einem großen Stein


Okay, I see I've won, muhaha!


No, what I actually wanted to say is: It is useless to discuss which language is the hardest because it just does not exist. All Indo-European languages are pretty much alike. For us ("indo-europeans") it would be way harder to learn for example Finnish because its part of another language family plus is structured a complety other way, it's called agglutination. For them it is easier to learn for example Turkish, which is also a agglutinating language, although both are not related.

shit, gotta go to work. I'll write on later!

 

[lefay82]

you totally missed the sense of the discussion... (at least what i meant to say)
it's not a challenge about which languague is better or worse...
we were just talkinig about difficulties and easiness of our native languages.

for example i totally agree with what svarthjartad said about swedish, the fact you have to agglutinate the article at the end of the word when you want to use a definite form.
it's a way of thinking totally different from the one i'm used to.
it's hard to think that you have to say ett nytt hus (one new house) or det nya huset (the new house), the fact the abjective become weak when toghether with the article den det...while the same ending "a" is used also for the plural form, nya hus, nya husen, am I right?

the easies part of italian is instead word order, it's not fixed like in german where you have to put the verb in second place in pricipal phases and at the end in subordinate ones.
for example you can leave the subject understood because the verb tells you of which person you are speaking.
i go home today
io vado a casa oggi
or
vado a casa oggi (vado is the present of the verb to go and is used only for the first sigular person)

you can change the word order
oggi vado a casa
oggi io vado a casa
io oggi vado a casa
(it would have more sense in a longest phrase)


then you are not forced to put the adjective before the word it is referred as in english
a very beautiful day (speaking of weather)
una giornata davvero bella
una davvero bella giornata
una giornata bella davvero
davvero una bella giornata
davvero una giornata bella
una bella giornata davvero
it depends on what you would like to stress or underline....

 

[paradoxile]

as far as swedish goes most verbs are conjugated the same in first second or third singular or plural person. I believe the hardest languages to learn are: Finnish, German, Russian/Ukrainian(they're fairly similar) as far as european languages go.
Italian, French Spanish and Portuguese are relatively easy...all have their hard things about it.
Hebrew for instance is very easy compared to european languages. we have 3 tenses in which there are only the active and passive forms and some very defined rules regarding exceptions...the hard thing about hebrew is that the vowels are written as dots under constonants in which case you know how to read the word, however texts that don't teach little kids to read or newcomers for that matter including news, newspapers and books are all written without the vowels which requires a vast vocabulary to know how to read every word.
in german as in russian pronounciation isn't hard once you know the rules and the letters. problem is in russian that you don't have a regular form in a verb and conjugating every form is different moreover there are like 6 different verbs to describe every action in different situation. in german the frasing of a sentence and conjucation are the ones that are difficult....oh and both have those long unpronouncable words.

 

[Thidrek]

lefay: Maybe I missed tho point but this morning it seemed to me that everyone wanted to state that his lanuage was sooo difficult. Maybe I was wrong, sorry for that.

But anyway: Whether a language is difficult to learn or not depends on the linguistic system one has grown up in. There are several morphological categories languages can be put in (isolating, analytic and synthetic [including polysynthetic, agglutinating, flectional, ...] for those who know). So if you are used to one category it should be easier for you to learn a language of a similar one. For instance: If one's mother tounge is an Eskimo-Aleutic language and he ought to learn English but never came in contact with it via media or anything else it may be quite challanging for this person. E-A languages are so-called polysynthetic languages what means that the speakers build (from our perspective) whole sentences through attaching affixes while English is merely based on the word order and has just a few affixes.

But I have to admit: English and the East-Scandinavian languages are really easy when it comes to learning vocabulary since there are not that many irregularities and flections.


@paradoxile: You can make up really long words in many languages, even in English, but he point is that in German, Russian, Swedish and some other you just write them together whilst in other languages you don't. If you'd learn languages only by listening, that'd be irrelevant. But the problem is: Noone does!

 

[paradoxile]

superkalifragelisticexpialidoughshis now that's a long word.

yeah i guess you're right...except for russian that is...you don't connect words in russian as you would in german or swedish...in russian those words are naturally long and that's a bitch.

 

[lefay82]

But anyway: Whether a language is difficult to learn or not depends on the linguistic system one has grown up in. There are several morphological categories languages can be put in (isolating, analytic and synthetic [including polysynthetic, agglutinating, flectional, ...] for those who know). So if you are used to one category it should be easier for you to learn a language of a similar one. For instance: If one's mother tounge is an Eskimo-Aleutic language and he ought to learn English but never came in contact with it via media or anything else it may be quite challanging for this person. E-A languages are so-called polysynthetic languages what means that the speakers build (from our perspective) whole sentences through attaching affixes while English is merely based on the word order and has just a few affixes.

yes that's right!
for me spanish or french will be surely easier than other languages like german or swedish.
i think english is quite an isolated case, i mean, i'm not really good at it but honestly is one of the easiest languages i've ever faced...even if i cannot write or speak 100% correctly i hope i can make myself understood, even if i've never been to england or USA, neighter lived abroad for a while, so my experience is just with school that i ended up 5 years ago, with music or speaking with some tourists, and above all without practising it daily ...but i can understand quite a lot, i think about 90 % of written texts, i'm able to read a book or something without using the dictionary, and about 80 % of spoken tongue.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

Swedish is really easy to learn!
I don't know why but I don't feel like you are swedish SVART, are you?

Easy? Wait... you live in Sweden, but had to learn?
Maybe if you moved there and was around it, okey. But if you are learning through books or online or whatever, then it will be a bit difficult I would think.
Yes. I am, but you see I now live in USA and actually have been for five, six years... officially atleast.

 

[Defiance]

plz, come on, nowadays' Romanic languages are so easy when it comes to grammar. 3 verb classes German has about 9 irregular ones plus one regular one (regular != easy )

And adjectives bend another way depending on whether they are attached to a noun with a definite or an infinite article:

der große Stein
des großen Steins
den großen Stein
dem großen Stein

BUT

ein großer Stein
eines großen Steines
einen großen Stein
einem großen Stein


Okay, I see I've won, muhaha!


No, what I actually wanted to say is: It is useless to discuss which language is the hardest because it just does not exist. All Indo-European languages are pretty much alike. For us ("indo-europeans") it would be way harder to learn for example Finnish because its part of another language family plus is structured a complety other way, it's called agglutination. For them it is easier to learn for example Turkish, which is also a agglutinating language, although both are not related.

shit, gotta go to work. I'll write on later!

I agree, German is a very difficult language. I learnt it so I could speak with my grandpa (who was German-jewish, a lot of my/his family was killed during Auschwitz), but then he passed away. Since I think you're a linguist as I am, I have to say: "Damn affective filter!" . Ah well it passed and I really enjoy learning German now, IMO is one of the most beautiful languages (if not the most beautiful) language of the word.

And yes, Italian grammar is quite easy. I know some Italian (my girl's Italian, so I talk a bit with her), but as her mother says to me: "You have that damn Saxon accent, you can't speak Italian like that!!!" I understand most Italian since it's very similar to Spanish (more than French, Portuguese or Rumanian), but my accent... well I can't do anything about it . I did manage quite well when I was in Italy though .

But I disagree with the last part you wrote Herr Thidrek. I don't think it matters if the language is from a different family, for me Japanese was easier to learn than German. I think that what matters most is how much it relates to your Mother Tongue.

yes that's right!
for me spanish or french will be surely easier than other languages like german or swedish.
i think english is quite an isolated case, i mean, i'm not really good at it but honestly is one of the easiest languages i've ever faced...even if i cannot write or speak 100% correctly i hope i can make myself understood, even if i've never been to england or USA, neighter lived abroad for a while, so my experience is just with school that i ended up 5 years ago, with music or speaking with some tourists, and above all without practising it daily ...but i can understand quite a lot, i think about 90 % of written texts, i'm able to read a book or something without using the dictionary, and about 80 % of spoken tongue.

The hardest part for an Italian or a Japanese speaker when learning English is the oral part. No offence, but those people can't speak English. I am not flaming so you know, and obviously there are some Italians and Japanese that can speak with a near native accent. But well, Italian has too much "singing," accent, emphasis, passion in it's oral language, so that interferes a lot. With the Japanese, well their mouth has a different shape, so KAPUTT .

I love this thread .

 

[lefay82]

The hardest part for an Italian or a Japanese speaker when learning English is the oral part. No offence, but those people can't speak English. I am not flaming so you know, and obviously there are some Italians and Japanese that can speak with a near native accent. But well, Italian has too much "singing," accent, emphasis, passion in it's oral language, so that interferes a lot. With the Japanese, well their mouth has a different shape, so KAPUTT .

I love this thread .

ahahaha don't worry, i don't get offended...this is what i've always asserted! italians are totally unable to speak english and often any other language than their own.... (of course there're exceptions)
i don't know which is the real reason. maybe culture (close-minded), maybe because we're quite isolated being in the south and having the sea nearly as the only neighbour, maybe because at school languages aren't teached enough, maybe because we don't have a lot of immigration (now we have, but not so much in the past) or maybe we're just unable
i've always tought that the good weather has contributed a lot in our indolence and lazyness, it's hard to stay at home and study when outside the sun shines and the thermoter shows 25-30 degrees
in the extreme north the situation is different because some regions are bilingual, italian-french or italian-german, but just because they live near the borders.

 

[Defiance]

ahahaha don't worry, i don't get offended...this is what i've always asserted! italians are totally unable to speak english and often any other language than their own.... (of course there're exceptions)
i don't know which is the real reason. maybe culture (close-minded), maybe because we're quite isolated being in the south and having the sea nearly as the only neighbour, maybe because at school languages aren't teached enough, maybe because we don't have a lot of immigration (now we have, but not so much in the past) or maybe we're just unable
i've always tought that the good weather has contributed a lot in our indolence and lazyness, it's hard to stay at home and study when outside the sun shines and the thermoter shows 25-30 degrees
in the extreme north the situation is different because some regions are bilingual, italian-french or italian-german, but just because they live near the borders.

See, I knew it!!! I made a similar post in another forum and some Italian idiots got offended and said a load of crap to me. The moderator is racist anyhow.

I think, again, that the problem is the accent, I think it's quite strong. Also, non-verbal communication influences a lot because Italians move their hands a lot (just like us Latinos), but Brits (especially they) or US citizens don't do it as much.

And it's "taught," not "teached" .

Also, did you read the quote on the beginning of this page I made to one of your posts? You might find it interesting .

Cheers!

 

[paradoxile]

you should hear native israelis trying to pronounce stuff in foreign languages.

for some israelis shit and sheet sound the same...so do live and leave...
reminds me of a commercial for this chain of institutes that teach people english for money.
it goes like this:
naarator says in hebrew: you're in San Francisco, you walk into a diner, a cute blond in the corner is giving you an inviting look. you walk over and buy her a drink and afterwards you ask her..." let's go beach". with such English you're not going anywhere.

 

[Svarthjärtad]

The whole language thing excites me. I should go do something with it, build up my education. Although, next year we are going to study linguistics for a few weeks. I am going for Cultureal Anthropolgy.
It is amazing how a lot of languages almost have the same word - if not in spelling, but in pronounciation. It almost like sounds just like English or another language.

 

[Defiance]

you should hear native israelis trying to pronounce stuff in foreign languages.

for some israelis shit and sheet sound the same...so do live and leave...
reminds me of a commercial for this chain of institutes that teach people english for money.
it goes like this:
naarator says in hebrew: you're in San Francisco, you walk into a diner, a cute blond in the corner is giving you an inviting look. you walk over and buy her a drink and afterwards you ask her..." let's go beach". with such English you're not going anywhere.

"let's go beach" hahahaha!

The whole language thing excites me. I should go do something with it, build up my education. Although, next year we are going to study linguistics for a few weeks. I am going for Cultureal Anthropolgy.
It is amazing how a lot of languages almost have the same word - if not in spelling, but in pronounciation. It almost like sounds just like English or another language.

English has received so many influences that you can't really use it as a comparison point IMO. And Cultural Anthropology sounds great!