viktor rydberg.
i've found a lot of similarities in the choice of words. there are some words that appears also in vintersorg's lyrics, like sorlande, stilla, häves which all appear in the song "stilla". is it a conicidence or not?
Learning Swedish?
- Thread starter Svartvintras
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i've found a lot of similarities in the choice of words. there are some words that appears also in vintersorg's lyrics, like sorlande, stilla, häves which all appear in the song "stilla". is it a conicidence or not?
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
viktor rydberg.
i've found a lot of similarities in the choice of words. there are some words that appears also in vintersorg's lyrics, like sorlande, stilla, häves which all appear in the song "stilla". is it a conicidence or not?
Haha I'm not sure if it's a coincidence, but I wouldn't be surprised if Andreas sees Mr Rydberg as a linguistic/poetic inspiration; they do seem to have certain word usage in common.
Well I haven't read it so I can't have an opinion yet
.
NovembersDirge
Angry Metal Guy
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
Yes, yes, I'm sure it is!
next goal of mine...learn Sardinian ahahaha
it's alien
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyRjxfHSRyE&feature=related
Non capisco NIENTEEEE!!!
I understand most Italian (i.e. Tuscan dialect), but holy crap I only got like two words from that video! Sardinian is very different, it's the most conservative Romance language in regards to phonology, i.e. closest thing to spoken Latin nowadays
. I guess that since it's an island the influence of other variants was minimal, and so didn't change much. Really, I even understand more vènet hahaha .Interesting articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_language
I'll post it on my FB now hee hee.
Non capisco NIENTEEEE!!!
I understand most Italian (i.e. Tuscan dialect), but holy crap I only got like two words from that video! Sardinian is very different, it's the most conservative Romance language in regards to phonology, i.e. closest thing to spoken Latin nowadays
Interesting articles:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinian_language
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sardinia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetian_language
I'll post it on my FB now hee hee.
do you think i understand more words than you?
the answer is no!
it's too far from italian....
i find this thing really amusing, because we live in the same nation!
and what's really funny is that people from the island call the peninsula "il continente" (the continent)
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
do you think i understand more words than you?
the answer is no!
it's too far from italian....
i find this thing really amusing, because we live in the same nation!
and what's really funny is that people from the island call the peninsula "il continente" (the continent)
Haha no, of course you don't understand any words. Outside of the island, who does?
Yeah, but even if it's the same nation most people won't know how to speak Vènet or Sardu hehe. There's always a lot of controversy in the Italian government because, well, since the Italian government sucks, they've wanted to impose the Tuscan dialect on everyone. I remember them trying to elimnate Vènet
from the Venetian courts. .Hopefully Berlusconi will be kicked out, why the heck aren't there more protests?!? The Italian government's always been very corrupt, but jeez Berlusconi really tops everything that's been in power before. Egypt is an example to follow.
Haha no, of course you don't understand any words. Outside of the island, who does?
Hopefully Berlusconi will be kicked out, why the heck aren't there more protests?!? The Italian government's always been very corrupt, but jeez Berlusconi really tops everything that's been in power before. Egypt is an example to follow.
they decided to use tuscan because tuscany has been the home of some of the greatest writers in italian litterature, like dante, boccaccio, petrarca, machiavelli (and always a region of art, see michelangelo, cimabue, donatello, cellini, vasari, brunelleschi, or such) even if the language has changed a little bit from their period it's still very similar to the artistic language. we can still easily read those writers now, i mean also people outside tuscany, but for us is quite simplier because some words have remained in our vocabulary.
the question when italy united was if to use this "poetic" dialect or to make a new language mixing all the dialects together....i think they did the best choice. not because i am tuscan, but because the language has a strongest unity this way, and also a nobler birth.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuscan_language
oh i forgot...
being you a linguist you may be interested in this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusca_Academy
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
Yeah, I was mostly complaining that nowadays the Italian government tries to override other variations with the Tuscan one; it's not fair to ask a Vènet to learn Tuscan, is it?
Thanks for the links, I'll see them later.
I thought this was nice:
"In the middle of life it happens that death comes and measures man. The visit is forgotten and life continues. But the suit is made, quietly".
- Tomas Tranströmer (Swedish poet)
Thidrek
Dichter (und) Denker
Well, the idea of one language per country is a really European one. You will hardly find a country outside Europe where there are not at least 3 different languages spoken in. Even in Europe there are several minority languages and different dialects (the borders often overlap). But a lot of them will probably among those 50% of languages that are going to die withing the current century: Frisian (Germany), Sorbian (Germany), Gutamål (Sweden), Occitan (France), Norman (France), Breton (France), several Finnic languages, etc.
The state of having several languages spoken in one single country is by no means a sign of seperation, seen globally it is the normal state. Even for the individual being monolingual is quite rare (but increasing). In most countries you have one or two linguae francae and then several other languages. For example Papua-New Guinea: about 10% of all languages of the world are spoken on that (though big) island. If you assume 6.000 languages, that's 600 different languages. On one island!!! And people are not killing each other. Or take a look at South America: You have Spanish and/or Portuguese as languages nearly everyone speaks plus several hundred different indigenous languages.
You see, there is no need to be afraid or whatsoever of having more than one language in one country. It's no sign of seperation. See it as a kind of cultural diversity. Do you want everywhere to be like the Tuscany? Or Brussels? Or New York?
If there are fights among differnt cultures in one country, you can be sure the diversity of languages is not the reason. But people like to think like that, because apart from skin color and other biological features, the language of another human is the most obvious differentiator.
The state of having several languages spoken in one single country is by no means a sign of seperation, seen globally it is the normal state. Even for the individual being monolingual is quite rare (but increasing). In most countries you have one or two linguae francae and then several other languages. For example Papua-New Guinea: about 10% of all languages of the world are spoken on that (though big) island. If you assume 6.000 languages, that's 600 different languages. On one island!!! And people are not killing each other. Or take a look at South America: You have Spanish and/or Portuguese as languages nearly everyone speaks plus several hundred different indigenous languages.
You see, there is no need to be afraid or whatsoever of having more than one language in one country. It's no sign of seperation. See it as a kind of cultural diversity. Do you want everywhere to be like the Tuscany? Or Brussels? Or New York?
If there are fights among differnt cultures in one country, you can be sure the diversity of languages is not the reason. But people like to think like that, because apart from skin color and other biological features, the language of another human is the most obvious differentiator.
Well, the idea of one language per country is a really European one. You will hardly find a country outside Europe where there are not at least 3 different languages spoken in. Even in Europe there are several minority languages and different dialects (the borders often overlap). But a lot of them will probably among those 50% of languages that are going to die withing the current century: Frisian (Germany), Sorbian (Germany), Gutamål (Sweden), Occitan (France), Norman (France), Breton (France), several Finnic languages, etc.
The state of having several languages spoken in one single country is by no means a sign of seperation, seen globally it is the normal state. Even for the individual being monolingual is quite rare (but increasing). In most countries you have one or two linguae francae and then several other languages. For example Papua-New Guinea: about 10% of all languages of the world are spoken on that (though big) island. If you assume 6.000 languages, that's 600 different languages. On one island!!! And people are not killing each other. Or take a look at South America: You have Spanish and/or Portuguese as languages nearly everyone speaks plus several hundred different indigenous languages.
You see, there is no need to be afraid or whatsoever of having more than one language in one country. It's no sign of seperation. See it as a kind of cultural diversity. Do you want everywhere to be like the Tuscany? Or Brussels? Or New York?
If there are fights among differnt cultures in one country, you can be sure the diversity of languages is not the reason. But people like to think like that, because apart from skin color and other biological features, the language of another human is the most obvious differentiator.
i haven't understood who's afraid? me or defiance?
i'm not afraid in any way, and i don't want the things to change in italy, it's really beautiful that we have so many dialect, because they are dialects, only sardo and few others are considered indipendent languages, but let me tell you it's quite funny sometimes, becuase the dialects are really different and we don't understand each other.
but i think that an official language is really important for comunication, and the problem here is that sometimes people is not able to speak the correct official language, and i see it as a sign of ignorance instead of cultural diversity.
sometime watching the tv news i shiver hearing people who cannot speak italian...i mean, you're on the national tv and you cannot speak your language!!!
Thidrek
Dichter (und) Denker
I was adressing you, because you have already said something similar in another thread some months (or years? stopped counting
) ago. And when I get confronted with something like this it's most often because of fear due loss of any national identity. But, of course, I cannot be sure what you are thinking and/or feeling, so I added a "whatsoever" just to cover all other cases Italy, similar to Germany and some other countries, has not always been one nation. A national feeling on a broader basis had not evolved until the 19th century. Since different parts of the country developed differently in respect to language or just culture in general throughout the years, it is kind of natural to me that there are people still relying on those differences. And as long as the government does not force one single culture upon the people, they probably won't ever change. BUT that is in my eyes only the top of the iceberg. If there are people who do not accept that there is a language which is spoken by nearly everyone else in the country, then there seems to be some social or cultural gap.
But that's the price you pay if you put together what probably doesn't belong together. We in Germany have had luck that there are afaik no Frisians or Sorbians refusing to speak German. But the other side of the story is that their culture is vanishing.
I was adressing you, because you have already said something similar in another thread some months (or years? stopped counting
Italy, similar to Germany and some other countries, has not always been one nation. A national feeling on a broader basis had not evolved until the 19th century. Since different parts of the country developed differently in respect to language or just culture in general throughout the years, it is kind of natural to me that there are people still relying on those differences. And as long as the government does not force one single culture upon the people, they probably won't ever change. BUT that is in my eyes only the top of the iceberg. If there are people who do not accept that there is a language which is spoken by nearly everyone else in the country, then there seems to be some social or cultural gap.
But that's the price you pay if you put together what probably doesn't belong together. We in Germany have had luck that there are afaik no Frisians or Sorbians refusing to speak German. But the other side of the story is that their culture is vanishing.
i don't think it's my case. which phrase in particular make you think that?
i'm a lover of diversity, i'm always attracted from what's different from me, i mean different cultures, languages, habits. i always do a lot of questions about that, i'm curious to know how other people live in other parts of my nation or europe.
i've have some good friends who come from the center/south, one is from sardinia, one from abruzzo, and the other one from calabria (the very south of the peninsula) and i enjoy everytime i hear them speaking in their language and i'm the first one who encourage them, or ask for some brief dialect lessons
one funny happening: i've learned from my calabrian friend that there's a word in her dialect which has a pronunciation similar to swedish!!!! the word is sciusciarulo (it's a sort of tube in which you blow with your mouth to make up the fire) and those groups of letters "sciu" are read like "skju" in "skjuta" (to shoot). and that's weird because it's a sound that we don't have in standard italian (we have this group of letters of course but read in a different way), so i had a lot of fun hearing this fact
Thidrek
Dichter (und) Denker
i don't think it's my case. which phrase in particular make you think that?
i'm a lover of diversity, i'm always attracted from what's different from me, i mean different cultures, languages, habits. i always do a lot of questions about that, i'm curious to know how other people live in other parts of my nation or europe.
i've have some good friends who come from the center/south, one is from sardinia, one from abruzzo, and the other one from calabria (the very south of the peninsula) and i enjoy everytime i hear them speaking in their language and i'm the first one who encourage them, or ask for some brief dialect lessons
Ok, then I probably got you completely wrong. I'm sorry for that!
one funny happening: i've learned from my calabrian friend that there's a word in her dialect which has a pronunciation similar to swedish!!!! the word is sciusciarulo (it's a sort of tube in which you blow with your mouth to make up the fire) and those groups of letters "sciu" are read like "skju" in "skjuta" (to shoot). and that's weird because it's a sound that we don't have in standard italian (we have this group of letters of course but read in a different way), so i had a lot of fun hearing this fact
Sounds interesting! Especially because Swedish is said to be the only language having that sound. But why shouldn't there be more languages with it? The "u"-sound and that Swedish "skj" in fact share some properties regarding articulation, so what you say sounds plausible. What's her dialect called btw?
Blind Guardian
Member
I usually refer to the Swedish sj-sound as "the Mandarin sound". I think several Asian languages have that sound, or at least a sound which is very similar.
Anyway, speaking of dialects, here's some music sung in Jämska. If you have studied standard book Swedish for some time you should notice quite the difference.
Veit vår sola ahllten skin
fauglan kvitter
inger grin
veit vår stårsan e bra fin?
Veit vår gräse ahllten e
brano grönt
å grönar tre
veit vår all får vae i fre?
Veit vår ingenting e svårst
å e öft
e huskut kort
om nättran er e lagom mårt?
De e västa
nola vaerln
å åsta
sönna hagan
nola västa sjön
å sönna
åsta dagom
Man,
kjårdda ge se, de vål vårn
snön, han smähllt bort
baer vål gårn
sjön å himlen, bå vål blå
Vaerla vaken, lauve grönt
sommarn artu
som mae drömt
Vaermen! som mae trodd mae glömt
Ongan näckjen! Uttan krim!
Hör på fauglan!
Melodin!
A momma glöm bort krämpan sin!
Anyway, speaking of dialects, here's some music sung in Jämska. If you have studied standard book Swedish for some time you should notice quite the difference.
Veit vår sola ahllten skin
fauglan kvitter
inger grin
veit vår stårsan e bra fin?
Veit vår gräse ahllten e
brano grönt
å grönar tre
veit vår all får vae i fre?
Veit vår ingenting e svårst
å e öft
e huskut kort
om nättran er e lagom mårt?
De e västa
nola vaerln
å åsta
sönna hagan
nola västa sjön
å sönna
åsta dagom
Man,
kjårdda ge se, de vål vårn
snön, han smähllt bort
baer vål gårn
sjön å himlen, bå vål blå
Vaerla vaken, lauve grönt
sommarn artu
som mae drömt
Vaermen! som mae trodd mae glömt
Ongan näckjen! Uttan krim!
Hör på fauglan!
Melodin!
A momma glöm bort krämpan sin!
Last edited by a moderator:
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
yes, it's pretty different.
the main difference in pronunciation that i've hear is the sk/sj sounds, also manegarm use to pronunce them this way (i mean harder that vintersorg does) and also the L is pretty different, the L is Vaerla reminds me the danish L (more soft and liquid)
some words are different, like fauglan which i suppose stands for fågel/fåglen.
but i can understand only some parts of the text....
the main difference in pronunciation that i've hear is the sk/sj sounds, also manegarm use to pronunce them this way (i mean harder that vintersorg does) and also the L is pretty different, the L is Vaerla reminds me the danish L (more soft and liquid)
some words are different, like fauglan which i suppose stands for fågel/fåglen.
but i can understand only some parts of the text....
Defiance
I vårens ljusa kvällar
Finnish and Inukituvut seem VERY similar; just llok at the bold part.
"We have to be understandable in all dialects to everyone," Elijah Erkloo, chair of the Inuit Uqausinginnik Taiguusiliuqtiit language authority, said Thursday at a discussion session on language standardization.
Read more: http://new.canada.com/life/Arctic+l...ndardization/4288017/story.html#ixzz1E6IT00zZ
"We have to be understandable in all dialects to everyone," Elijah Erkloo, chair of the Inuit Uqausinginnik Taiguusiliuqtiit language authority, said Thursday at a discussion session on language standardization.
Read more: http://new.canada.com/life/Arctic+l...ndardization/4288017/story.html#ixzz1E6IT00zZ
yes, i definitely think andreas has read rydberg at least once in life.
i've continued reading his poetries, like skogsrået, tomten, loreley (yes pretty similar to heine's one), spillror, snöfrid, and there are some words in common which not belong to the normal/everyday language, or are a little bit old.
for example i´ve found a lot of times the word gåtful in rydberg which is also used by andreas.
but also a lot of more normal words are in common, it's like they share a certain number of favourite words, mostly regarding nature and the description of his features, which always reappear from poetry to poetry and from song to song, that's why i'm finding reading rydberg's lyrics "not so much hard", because i already know so many words of his vocabulary....
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