Listening to Nile leads to fistfight

[skeptik]

It's also easy to see the motive that challenge_everything had as well, but that's not in dispute. Of course the motive is there, that's why it happened.

 

[cookiecutter]

I'm trying dude, I'm drunk. Let me try again.

I'm not disrupting anyone when I walk by them with my headphones blaring metal. They're not disrupting me if they are blaring (for example) rap from their headphones. If I'm not interrupting say them sleeping with my music, I don't see why they should care. If someone says I should turn my shit down, I will either turn it down or walk away from them if I am walking with my headphones to avoid confrontation, due to the pointlessness of confrontation on the basis of music, but I will be kinda pissed off at the fact that they asked me to turn it down when they could have easily moved 3 feet away. It's not their business what I listen to or how loud I listen to it, and it's not my business what they listen to. I may not like it, but it's their music and their choice. I'm a courteous person, so I won't go blaring music from my car loud enough so that people 2 blocks away can hear it, but regardless, I'm not going to get pissed when someone else does it... I'm just going to remove myself from the situation.

Like I said, I'm trying. Basically what I'm saying is nobody should care what I listen to, or how loud I listen to it, and I don't care what other people listen to or how loud, but I will be courteous to other people simply because it's easier.

Try to remember there are other people who may not be listening and may be disturbed by it. Also we are talking about a crowded bus, not walking/driving down the street. I'm not sure how you got that. Whether or not it bothers you is pretty much irrelevant. You are not allowed to invade other peoples lives with your noise, even if you are not bothered by others doing that to you. It is their business what you are listening to if they are forced to hear it against their will.

 

[Alteredmindeath]

the guy was a possible threat and antagonizer, good for you, good for teaching the dickhead a lesson. If someone followed me and I felt threatened, I would of pulled a gun on him and told him to fuck off or be shot.

 

[Ender Rises]

Try to remember there are other people who may not be listening and may be disturbed by it. Also we are talking about a crowded bus, not walking/driving down the street. I'm not sure how you got that. Whether or not it bothers you is pretty much irrelevant. You are not allowed to invade other peoples lives with your noise, even if you are not bothered by others doing that to you. It is their business what you are listening to if they are forced to hear it against their will.

The point I was trying to make and the whole basis of my argument was what I would do, not what he or any other person should have done. To make it about him, yes, he should have turned it down, and if I remember correctly I said that.

EDIT:

The guy was out of line for asking him to turn it down, but he should have turned it down anyway just to get the guy off his ass.

Yup.

 

[Ender Rises]

It's also easy to see the motive that challenge_everything had as well, but that's not in dispute. Of course the motive is there, that's why it happened.

True.

 

[cookiecutter]

Yup.

I am trying to point out to you why I think it is not out of line to ask someone to turn down their music in a public place.

 

[Ender Rises]

It really isn't, the only point I'm trying to make it is that I myself wouldn't ask them to.

 

[Cythraul]

Was he harming you? The boundary is crossed when you harm somebody. He was just agitating you after you were already being a dickhead. You are in the wrong primarily here, in terms of "the law" and in terms of common respectability.

You are a giant pussy.

 

[Ender Rises]

That's a good argument.

 

[Cythraul]

That's a good argument.

It wasn't intended to be some kind of argument. I was just making an observation.

 

[Ender Rises]

Ah. Good observation, then, and this time minus the sarcasm.

 

[Satanstoenail]

That's not really much of an argument. Do you care to elaborate on why it's okay to physically abuse another individual?

I don't think it's "okay" as in I'm going to punch anyone who looks at me the wrong way, I certainly don't go looking for conflict. I've only been in a small number of fights my whole life. And admittedly there have been times when I wished I'd hit certain people and didn't. I've only ever hit someone when I felt they really deserved it.

Say a guy is screaming at your girlfriend and calling her every name under the sun, you tell him to stop, you try to walk away etc., but he keeps following you and taunting you and screaming at her. It goes on for ages and your girlfriend is obviously afraid and looking to you for help. What do you do? Try to find a policeman? Basically if you own a functioning set of testicles you will defend the honour of your girlfriend and try as hard as you can to kick the fucker's arse. Even if you lose at least you tried.

 

[hibernal_dream]

Have fun in jail on assault charges then.

 

[The Ozzman]

I would have just turned the volume down, but the volume on my iPod is never loud enough to bother anyone around me because I'm not that fucking deaf

 

[waif]

Basically, you were both wrong. On a crowded, noisy bus, this guy shoulda just left you alone. How loud was the music, by the way?
You shouldn't have told him to fuck off. Just turn the volume down 1 notch or something.
He shouldn't have touched you.
He really shouldn't have followed you.
You shouldn't have threatened him.
You definitely shouldn't have punched him. It seems like this guy might be mentally disturbed or something.

However, if somebody follows you and bothers you despite repeated threats and requests to fuck off, then they really have it coming. Necuratul is just being a pussy.
Also, the assault charges are bullshit. We should bring back the days when you were actually allowed to defend yourself without fear of being locked away for having the balls to stand up for yourself.
And as a lawyer you definitely shouldn't have punched him. You should have sued him.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I think a lot of you who are against CE being physically involved are forgetting that the other guy shook his arm before CE did anything else physical. Had the guy not touched him, I don't think CE should have reacted the way he did. However, given the combined antagonism of the stranger (stalking after the exit of the bus + the original physical situation of "shaking" CE's arm probably just to get his attention but it was still unnecessary physical contact), he was probably just a cock looking for a fight. I doubt the situation could've been avoided in this case by a mere volume adjustment since the guy seemed kind of dead set on being a dickhead before anything happened (CE mentioned they were on a crowded bus and that earbuds don't provide much excess noise, two very good points and two points that I have also experienced before, and I've only been asked to turn down my music ONCE on a bus which I politely did). I think in this case it was probably OK for CE to act how he did, though the childish and irrational "fuck offs" and other issue-avoiding cop-outs are probably not common lawyer diction anywhere.

Also, Nec, I can't believe your incredibly bad point here about "was he actually harming you?!" That is some bullshit right there, and a total holier-than-thou sounding preachy question. Get over yourself...sure it is not right to just randomly punch people, but I'd say CE had a clear and defined reason to want to nail the guy. I'm NOT saying calling the cops would be an irrational or even dumb thing to do, but I don't think calling the cops works when there's a potentially dangerous guy stalking you who could snap at any second when you look at his previous irrational actions. Being a "stand-up" citizen doesn't really help you when you are in an odd and dangerous situation like this. Physical harm does not necessitate physical revenge; physicality in any sense should warrant an appropriately physical response. Simple courtesy; the guy shouldn't have touched him. When he did, he gave off the signal "it's OK to be physical with me."

 

[hibernal_dream]

Also, the assault charges are bullshit. We should bring back the days when you were actually allowed to defend yourself without fear of being locked away for having the balls to stand up for yourself.
quote]


I love how people use the terms "standing up for yourself" and "self defence" interchangeably.

 

[ohiogrinder]

the problem with turning music down is turning it down so low that you can't even hear it. so I kind of agree with the OP.

 

[The Ozzman]

I'm pretty sure if someone sitting next to him can hear the music, turning it down a few notches will not result in not being able to hear it. Even so, if you're on the bus and you can't hear it for 10 minutes or whatever, who cares?

challenge could have gotten up and sat somewhere else too. There are many alternative situations that could have played out here rather than violent intervention.

 

[skeptik]

I don't think it's "okay" as in I'm going to punch anyone who looks at me the wrong way, I certainly don't go looking for conflict. I've only been in a small number of fights my whole life. And admittedly there have been times when I wished I'd hit certain people and didn't. I've only ever hit someone when I felt they really deserved it.

Say a guy is screaming at your girlfriend and calling her every name under the sun, you tell him to stop, you try to walk away etc., but he keeps following you and taunting you and screaming at her. It goes on for ages and your girlfriend is obviously afraid and looking to you for help. What do you do? Try to find a policeman? Basically if you own a functioning set of testicles you will defend the honour of your girlfriend and try as hard as you can to kick the fucker's arse. Even if you lose at least you tried.

Can you try this again without the bogus "masculine" argument that has no relevance in an intelligent discussion?

However, if somebody follows you and bothers you despite repeated threats and requests to fuck off, then they really have it coming. Necuratul is just being a pussy.
Also, the assault charges are bullshit. We should bring back the days when you were actually allowed to defend yourself without fear of being locked away for having the balls to stand up for yourself.
And as a lawyer you definitely shouldn't have punched him. You should have sued him.

Explain to me how this is not stupid, or how "not punching somebody in the face" is equivalent to "being a pussy.

I think a lot of you who are against CE being physically involved are forgetting that the other guy shook his arm before CE did anything else physical. Had the guy not touched him, I don't think CE should have reacted the way he did. However, given the combined antagonism of the stranger (stalking after the exit of the bus + the original physical situation of "shaking" CE's arm probably just to get his attention but it was still unnecessary physical contact), he was probably just a cock looking for a fight. I doubt the situation could've been avoided in this case by a mere volume adjustment since the guy seemed kind of dead set on being a dickhead before anything happened (CE mentioned they were on a crowded bus and that earbuds don't provide much excess noise, two very good points and two points that I have also experienced before, and I've only been asked to turn down my music ONCE on a bus which I politely did). I think in this case it was probably OK for CE to act how he did, though the childish and irrational "fuck offs" and other issue-avoiding cop-outs are probably not common lawyer diction anywhere.

Also, Nec, I can't believe your incredibly bad point here about "was he actually harming you?!" That is some bullshit right there, and a total holier-than-thou sounding preachy question. Get over yourself...sure it is not right to just randomly punch people, but I'd say CE had a clear and defined reason to want to nail the guy. I'm NOT saying calling the cops would be an irrational or even dumb thing to do, but I don't think calling the cops works when there's a potentially dangerous guy stalking you who could snap at any second when you look at his previous irrational actions. Being a "stand-up" citizen doesn't really help you when you are in an odd and dangerous situation like this. Physical harm does not necessitate physical revenge; physicality in any sense should warrant an appropriately physical response. Simple courtesy; the guy shouldn't have touched him. When he did, he gave off the signal "it's OK to be physical with me."

You are aware that, if your headphones are on loud enough on a noisy bus for other people to hear it, your attention is not going to be easily grabbed by saying "hey buddy, turn your music down," right? It's not improper to shake somebody's arm to get their attention. Also, explain to me how punching a guy in the face when he didn't harm you being a bad thing is "some bullshit right there, and a total holier-than-thou sounding preachy question." You and others I've discussed this with last night have resorted to this asinine superiority argument, as if it actually made any sense, and I am at a loss as to how it is relevant. Am I "holier-than-thou" because I don't believe that you should be violently infringing upon others' rights without just cause? If so, news to me, but I would like you to try to explain how this is anyway. I've been called a pussy and holier-than-thou several times and have had my arguments called bullshit as many times, if not more, and yet nobody has actually supplied an argument to the contrary. So either do so, or shut the fuck up and stop relying on ad hominems.

What are you basing this claim on:

I doubt the situation could've been avoided in this case by a mere volume adjustment since the guy seemed kind of dead set on being a dickhead before anything happened (CE mentioned they were on a crowded bus and that earbuds don't provide much excess noise, two very good points and two points that I have also experienced before, and I've only been asked to turn down my music ONCE on a bus which I politely did).

Firstly, how do you know that the situation would not have gone differently if challenge_everything hadn't been an utter fucking neanderthal and lowered his music instead of saying "piss off," followed by "fuck off," and then "fuck off or I'll punch you" and "fuck off or I'll deck you?" Challenge_everything was the initial instigator. Asking somebody to lower the volume of their music is perfectly fine, and not at all worthy of being told to fuck off. That's just really childish and nothing more. And "earbuds don't provide much excess noise" is not a "very good point," foremost reason being because that claim is simply bullshit. Fuck, those headphones provide more excess noise than the headphones that I have now.

And your "signal" argument is also fucking stupid. How else are you going to get somebody's attention who is blasting music in their headphones short of jumping up and down in their faces, which is impossible on a crowded bus? The easiest way would be to, you know, um, maybe, uh, shake their arm or something wild like that. And if he was just looking for a fight, 1) he would have accepted c_e's challenge to a fight, which he did NOT, and 2) he would have defended himself after c_e attacked him, which he did NOT. Instead, he did what c_e should have done after already having been a dick, namely going to the police if he couldn't talk the person out of harassing him (which it should be noted that he didn't at all attempt to do).

I could go on, and will do so later if you want to carry this out, but for now I'm off to school.