Listening to Nile leads to fistfight

[False Joe]

I place you entirely in the blame.

It's not too much hassle to lower your music abit.

 

[NinjaGeek]

I think a lot of you who are against CE being physically involved are forgetting that the other guy shook his arm before CE did anything else physical. Had the guy not touched him, I don't think CE should have reacted the way he did. However, given the combined antagonism of the stranger (stalking after the exit of the bus + the original physical situation of "shaking" CE's arm probably just to get his attention but it was still unnecessary physical contact), he was probably just a cock looking for a fight. I doubt the situation could've been avoided in this case by a mere volume adjustment since the guy seemed kind of dead set on being a dickhead before anything happened (CE mentioned they were on a crowded bus and that earbuds don't provide much excess noise, two very good points and two points that I have also experienced before, and I've only been asked to turn down my music ONCE on a bus which I politely did). I think in this case it was probably OK for CE to act how he did, though the childish and irrational "fuck offs" and other issue-avoiding cop-outs are probably not common lawyer diction anywhere.

Good job pointing out the same thing I did a while back, but hey at least people noticed this time.

You are aware that, if your headphones are on loud enough on a noisy bus for other people to hear it, your attention is not going to be easily grabbed by saying "hey buddy, turn your music down," right? It's not improper to shake somebody's arm to get their attention. Also, explain to me how punching a guy in the face when he didn't harm you being a bad thing is "some bullshit right there, and a total holier-than-thou sounding preachy question." You and others I've discussed this with last night have resorted to this asinine superiority argument, as if it actually made any sense, and I am at a loss as to how it is relevant. Am I "holier-than-thou" because I don't believe that you should be violently infringing upon others' rights without just cause? If so, news to me, but I would like you to try to explain how this is anyway. I've been called a pussy and holier-than-thou several times and have had my arguments called bullshit as many times, if not more, and yet nobody has actually supplied an argument to the contrary. So either do so, or shut the fuck up and stop relying on ad hominems.

Honestly, if it's just 1 shake or tap it's not that big a deal. I have homeless people tapping my arm all the time to ask for money when my music's loud and I can't hear them. It doesn't bother me, but if they continued to do it and follow me around grabbing and shaking my arm, I would definitely feel threatened and use some sort of physical force back, though not necessarily a punch right away.

 

[skeptik]

Wouldn't be more reasonable to try to talk to him in a non-dickheaded way first? For example, by apologizing for being an obnoxious dickhead and proceeding to ask him kindly to respect your privacy by not following you? Or is that just being too much of a pussy?

 

[genocide roach]

He deserved it.

i'm with her. the guy was harassing you and stalking you. and it sounds like the cops figure that out too. otherwise they would have arrested you on the spot
~gR~

 

[NinjaGeek]

Wouldn't be more reasonable to try to talk to him in a non-dickheaded way first? For example, by apologizing for being an obnoxious dickhead and proceeding to ask him kindly to respect your privacy by not following you? Or is that just being too much of a pussy?

He definitely could of handled it better. But think of the situation in reverse, if you're harassing someone and they're telling you to fuck off, does that give you the right to keep following them and harassing them just because they didn't politely ask you to go away?

 

[thisisaformicatable]

The headphones shit is irrelevant, if a random guy is following you around and talking shit, and continues to do so after you threaten to knock him, then go ahead and knock him. Personally I would have started with a push and seen if that did the trick but whatever. The guy is probably already guilty of assaulting you (under Canadian law, at least).

 

[ThisIsACoolName]

Hypothetical scenario:
One day while you're away at school your next-door neighbor slaughters your family. Evidence makes it obvious that he is the one who did it. The police arrest him and the legal process ensues. Your neighbor hires quality, experienced lawyers who aid him in jumping through obscure legal loop-holes to achieve a miracle not guilty verdict. Your neighbor falls through the cracks of the system and remains a free, undamaged man. Could you still maintain this level of restraint? He still hasn't physically harmed you specifically in any way.

Obviously this is where you take the law into your own hands. Justice failed Kil. So Kil decided to make his own. This Summer. [/Don LaFontaine].

 

[cookiecutter]

Obviously this is where you take the law into your own hands. Justice failed Kil. So Kil decided to make his own. This Summer. [/Don LaFontaine].

I'd see it

 

[waif]

I love how people use the terms "standing up for yourself" and "self defence" interchangeably.

I don't mean them interchangeably. But you don't have the right to stand up for yourself (if some guy is fucking with you like this) and you don't have the right to defend yourself unless some asshole punches you first.

Explain to me how this is not stupid, or how "not punching somebody in the face" is equivalent to "being a pussy.

I'm not saying that he should have punched the guy in the face. I'm saying that the guy deserved to be punched in the face. People rarely get what they deserve. In an ideal world, God would have punched this guy in the face. I'm saying you were being a pussy (which, by the way, I don't mean really mean) by saying that there was no reason for violence unless someone slugs you. Which is debatable.

Anyhow, as V.V.V.V.V. said, people are missing some really important points:

1. The music wasn't loud enough for it to be an issue
2. The guy kept touching him
3. The guy followed him
4. The guy indicated a willingness to fight (nobody seems to have noticed this one)

1 indicates that the guy was looking either for a confrontation or just trying to be a dick.
2 is debatable - you don't touch strangers, but Necuratul made at least one good point in his monolithic post, which was that it may have just been to get his attention.
3 is downright creepy. If some guy is stalking you, then you start to wonder if he's going to attack you, and then you get ready to defend yourself. It's easy to see how that could lead to slugging the guy. Moral: Don't follow people, it's a fucking asshole thing to do.
4 is big. While the guy backed down, he indicated a willingness to fight AND he knew that Challenge was ready to slug him. If you walk down a dark alley in a shitty neighborhood and get mugged, obviously you didn't mug yourself, but that doesn't mean you don't bear any responsibility. The guy was either fucking crazy, a total dumbass, or he wanted to get hit.

Basically, this dumbass forced Challenge into a situation which Challenge handled poorly (should have turned the music down, in retrospect), but the guy brought it on himself.

 

[cookiecutter]

1. The music wasn't loud enough for it to be an issue

If someone else can hear your headphones it is an issue.

 

[False Joe]

1. The music wasn't loud enough for it to be an issue
2. The guy kept touching him

1. It obviously was, because the guy could hear it through his headphones.
2. The guy probably kept touching him because the music was loud enough that he couldn't hear the guy talking to him. The reason for the complaints in the first place. The loudness.

 

[NinjaGeek]

If someone else can hear your headphones it is an issue.

So you're saying I can't choose to block out other people's conversations with my music, just because they might hear it quietly and muffled amongst all the other talking, noise and what not?

 

[cookiecutter]

If the only way to do that is bother other people then yes

 

[NinjaGeek]

My point is that it's a hell of a lot more annoying to hear people talking over your music than to hear someone else's music amongst all the other noises going around in the city.

Plus when traveling most people will only have to deal with me for maybe 5-10 minutes whereas my full half hour trip to class is full of people and noises that disrupt my music listening if my volume isn't loud enough.

They also have the option of moving away (and if it's too crowded to move away there's usually plenty of noise to block out my music anyways). You don't have to go far to stop hearing headphone music, but I can't exactly move away from all noises.

 

[cookiecutter]

Plus when traveling most people will only have to deal with me for maybe 5-10 minutes whereas my full half hour trip to class is full of people and noises that disrupt my music listening if my volume isn't loud enough.

This doesn't make it right.

They also have the option of moving away (and if it's too crowded to move away there's usually plenty of noise to block out my music anyways). You don't have to go far to stop hearing headphone music, but I can't exactly move away from all noises.

This a terrible argument. Other people shouldn't have to move because you are doing something irritating. You might as well say "I can go on the bus smelling like shit because other people can always move"

 

[NinjaGeek]

Smelling like shit is a hell of a lot more bothersome than some music, and there are plenty of homeless people who smell like shit on the subway, who I move away from to avoid, and it's not like the move is all that troublesome.

Loud headphones are rarely ever that loud or bothersome to the people around you. True you are being rude by blasting them loud, but anyone who is annoyed by it is probably more annoyed at the fact you're being rude than the actual music is annoying them.

 

[Vimana]

Loud headphones are rarely ever that loud or bothersome to the people around you. True you are being rude by blasting them loud, but anyone who is annoyed by it is probably more annoyed at the fact you're being rude than the actual music is annoying them.

I'm not so sure, depends on the loudness. And how easily annoyed people are. But its more the music in my opinion. The only time I've been told to turn down music was when I was listening to Metal. Whenever I was listening to Old School Rap or Classic Rock (even louder than I listen to Metal) noone said anything.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

He definitely could of handled it better. But think of the situation in reverse, if you're harassing someone and they're telling you to fuck off, does that give you the right to keep following them and harassing them just because they didn't politely ask you to go away?

Great post. Thanks.

 

[panzerfaust666]

i'm with her. the guy was harassing you and stalking you. and it sounds like the cops figure that out too. otherwise they would have arrested you on the spot
~gR~

yeah i agree with you

On the other hand, I still think Challenge went to far for what the situation required.I can totally imagine the stranger: he originally wanted the music turned down, which is reasonable. Then Challenge went ahead and said " fuck off" etc( which any lawyer should no is not a good way of handling a situation.)
This provoked the stranger to just have a bit of "fun", which would just have been following him around ,to make him uneasy.Im sure thats all he meant to do, which isn't to bad, seeing that challenge mouthed him off and was being a bigger dick then necessary.

So you were both in the wrong. You didnt need to say "fuck off", and he also didn't need to follow you around and harass you.You both could have handled it alot better. You both asked for it i would say

Well thats my take

 

[panzerfaust666]

He definitely could of handled it better. But think of the situation in reverse, if you're harassing someone and they're telling you to fuck off, does that give you the right to keep following them and harassing them just because they didn't politely ask you to go away?

Exactly what my last post was getting at.