Megadeth vs Metallica

[MrTagoMago]

I just wanna point out there's nothing actually wrong with songs and albums being long, it's only an issue when the songs themselves don't need to be as long as they are and suffer from being stretched out rather than benefitting from it. I think with Metallica I've mentioned this before but it feels like they were making their songs and album long just for the sake of having them appear more epic or giving the illusion they were more mature than other bands. I know that sounds weird and kinda silly but it's the impression I get.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

I don't think that's what they were trying to do at all, even though I think that the album could be shorter than it is. I think that they just got too ambitious and overreached a bit.

 

[CiG]

Master Of Puppets is roughly 8 minutes longer than Ride The Lightning, which doesn't sound like much when written down, but man does it make itself known upon listening.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I don't think that's what they were trying to do at all, even though I think that the album could be shorter than it is. I think that they just got too ambitious and overreached a bit.

Yeah I can see that as well. Master of Puppets certainly does seem ambitious by thrash standards at the time it was made. Too bad the end product of that ambition is rather boring but I can to a degree see why people eat it up.

Master Of Puppets is roughly 8 minutes longer than Ride The Lightning, which doesn't sound like much when written down, but man does it make itself known upon listening.

The fact that it's a lot more boring in comparison is what makes the leagnth noticeable. The years of decay is a tad longer than MOP (ofcourse it has 9 tracks not just 8) however I don't have near as much trouble listening to it from beginning to end.

 

[CiG]

The fact that it's a lot more boring in comparison is what makes the leagnth noticeable. The years of decay is a tad longer than MOP (ofcourse it has 9 tracks not just 8) however I don't have near as much trouble listening to it from beginning to end.

Between those two albums I'm taking Master Of Puppets personally.

 

[MrTagoMago]

Between those two albums I'm taking Master Of Puppets personally.

You can if you want to.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Typical opinion but Mustaine's vocals break Megadeth in a lot of ways. Metallica's first four albums are pretty much unstoppable in the songwriting department while I don't feel like that's always the case with Megadeth. Either way, Tornado of Souls still has one of my favorite solos of all time. Friedman is a magician when it comes to leads.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Well if they're as similar as you say (HamburgerBoy will jump on you for this, as he did me when I said it), then why bother listening to the inferior version?

But it's not inferior goddammit!

I've had this opinion since I was 15/16. MoP just never did anything for me, can't really explain other than I just don't find it enjoyable. I gave it another listen recently and still didn't like it much. "Disposable Heroes" did stand out more than in the past is the only positive thing that I can say.

Well I've had my opinion since I was 14 and I'm 42 now so I clearly win.

I'll also add that I'll take AJFA over MoP. It's full of flaws but I find it more interesting at least.

Wut. I mean AJFA has some great moments, but I can't believe you criticize MoP for "plodding along" and then go and like AJFA more when AJFA does a whole lot more plodding.

For a start, the album length. Secondly, song length. Every song on Master Of Puppets is over 5 minutes long. The album is quite wanky at times, long dragging intros.

I love slow, leisurely doom metal of course, but I like quite the opposite with thrash metal, but I just thought they used the right amount of flourishes and fancy musicianship on Ride The Lightning without tarnishing the intensity that makes thrash metal so good to me.

Master Of Puppets was like a good dessert recipe with a little too much rich chocolate sauce on top.

I have no problem with it's production though. Sounds amazing, it just drags a little for me.

I don't get how you can regard one as "wanky at times" and not the other. Intros are pretty much the same for both albums.

Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets have the same number of tracks, but the latter album is a good deal longer. The average track length is roughly a minute longer on Master of Puppets than it is on Ride the Lightning. The album lacks direct, intense songs that hit you hard and then leave before they overstay their welcome.

MoP has Battery and Damage Inc. RtL has Fight Fire With Fire and Trapped Under Ice. That's 2 each. I like Trapped Under Ice, but it's the only song on RtL that sounds like it almost could have been on Kill 'Em All.

A good example of a song that I think is overblown is the title track. I think that it's longer than it needed to be and the stop-start sections kill the buildup and intensity that a song of that length should have.

The title track is one of their greatest achievements imo. Which stop-start sections do you mean?

I think you're both nitpicking with regard to song/album length. The only songs that under 5 minutes on RtL are Fight Fire With Fire (just), Trapped Under Ice and Escape (which are the 'weaker' songs on the album anyway).

Here's how the tracks go for me:

Battery = Fight Fire With Fire
Master of Puppets > Ride The Lightning
The Thing That Should Not Be < For Whom the Bell Tolls
Sanitarium = Fade to Black
Damage Inc. > Trapped Under Ice
Disposable Heroes = Creeping Death
Orion < Call Of Ktulu
Lepper Messiah > Escape

 

[CiG]

You can if you want to.

The drum sound is basically unbearable to me.

 

[MrTagoMago]

The drum sound is basically unbearable to me.

Well it's fine to me :/

 

[HamburgerBoy]

The stop-start-iness is one of the more novel things about Master of Puppets. Hetfield/Burton (probably the contribution of both) were the first metal guys to really realize the power of what was between the notes, and the build-up in the title track, the lurching proggy weirdness of TTTSNB, the heavy syncopation in Disposable Heroes, and the ridiculously tight stop-start riffing in Damage Inc all show that. The album is huge on dynamics, not always implemented perfectly (the intro to Damage Inc is throwaway) but it took things much further than nearly any metal album before, where dynamics originally just meant "Heavy metal song with an acoustic intro or blues guitar interlude" or similar.

EDIT: I mean in fairness I guess Fight Fire With Fire did have a similar approach even earlier, but the riffs themselves are still different. You can pick individual riffs from either Metallica album and trace entire band's or even sub-genre's developments from them. There isn't a single song from one that I would say sounds like a song from another, even if they serve similar purposes in the context of their respective albums.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I don't understand how anyone can call Master of Puppets overlong but not have issues with The Years of Decay btw. That album is basically just Overkill's take on Puppets-Justice-era Metallica with one long doom metal song thrown into the middle.

 

[Elric of Melniboné]

But it's not inferior goddammit!


Well I've had my opinion since I was 14 and I'm 42 now so I clearly win.


Wut. I mean AJFA has some great moments, but I can't believe you criticize MoP for "plodding along" and then go and like AJFA more when AJFA does a whole lot more plodding.


I don't get how you can regard one as "wanky at times" and not the other. Intros are pretty much the same for both albums.


MoP has Battery and Damage Inc. RtL has Fight Fire With Fire and Trapped Under Ice. That's 2 each. I like Trapped Under Ice, but it's the only song on RtL that sounds like it almost could have been on Kill 'Em All.


The title track is one of their greatest achievements imo. Which stop-start sections do you mean?

I think you're both nitpicking with regard to song/album length. The only songs that under 5 minutes on RtL are Fight Fire With Fire (just), Trapped Under Ice and Escape (which are the 'weaker' songs on the album anyway).

Here's how the tracks go for me:

Battery = Fight Fire With Fire
Master of Puppets > Ride The Lightning
The Thing That Should Not Be < For Whom the Bell Tolls
Sanitarium = Fade to Black
Damage Inc. > Trapped Under Ice
Disposable Heroes = Creeping Death
Orion < Call Of Ktulu
Lepper Messiah > Escape

The stop-start sections are when the music stops and then starts again in the title track. It seems pretty obvious.

Master of Puppets is a noticeably longer album, so no, I don't personally feel that I'm nitpicking as the songs are a good deal longer on average.

 

[Phylactery]

But it's not inferior goddammit!

Except for that it is.

Wut. I mean AJFA has some great moments, but I can't believe you criticize MoP for "plodding along" and then go and like AJFA more when AJFA does a whole lot more plodding.

Well I never said I really liked AJFA, it certainly has many flaws. I just find it to be more interesting than MoP at least.

Battery < Fight Fire With Fire
Master of Puppets << Ride The Lightning
The Thing That Should Not Be << For Whom the Bell Tolls
Sanitarium <<< Fade to Black
Damage Inc. < Trapped Under Ice
Disposable Heroes << Creeping Death
Orion < Call Of Ktulu
Lepper Messiah >Escape (no one cares about either)

Glad we agree

"Trapped Under Ice" isn't one of the best songs on the album, but it's not a weak track in the same way that "Escape" is. I'll skip that one sometimes.

 

[MrTagoMago]

I don't understand how anyone can call Master of Puppets overlong but not have issues with The Years of Decay btw. That album is basically just Overkill's take on Puppets-Justice-era Metallica with one long doom metal song thrown into the middle.

Its a more enjoyable better executed album. More fun and energetic songs plus more heavy crushing riffs certainly help. No throw away instrumentals either. The Years of decay just has a lot more attitude than Master of puppets.

 

[The Ozzman]

KEA > KIMB
RTL > Peace Sells
MOP > SFSGSW
RIP > AJFA
CTE > The Black Album
Youthanasia > Load

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Metallica > Megadeth

Both are gay past their fourth albums.

 

[CiG]

I have a feeling the next time I listen to Master Of Puppets I'm going to wind up doing a 180º and end up preferring it.

 

[Manic Ferocity]

Master of Puppets is honestly my least favorite out of the first four. My favorite is Ride the Lightning but ...and Justice for All holds major nostalgic value for me, seeing as it was my introduction to metal.

 

[CiG]

Re-listened to it and nope, still prefer the first two over it.