Modern Thrash metal vs. NWOTHM?

[Halberd3]

Okay well this is kind of a continuation of an old thread in the old school metal discussion. The difference being we're going to modern times and acknowledging everything that's happened in the past 30 years that's happened to metal. Now to acknowledge both sides.

Modern Thrash:
-Taken a bit of everything that's happened in the past 30 years and throwing it all together from Death metal, to black metal, to prog metal, speed, even the cringey core shit, and hardcore punk.
-Seems to be more well known in circles, and I've heard some pretty interesting stuff out of some of these guys and it's appeasing.
-Were very inspired by 80's thrash. Some even enough to claim they're bringing it back (Seriously? Get with the times. No reason for production to sound like shit) And some who are very innovative and willing to bring more to the style.

From what I know on Modern thrash and can name down some good bands: Warbringer, Hexen, Vektor, Havok, Suicidal Angels, Bio-Cancer, Municipal Waste, Ripper, Crisix, Revocation, etc.

NWOTHM (New Wave of Traditional Heavy Metal)
-Took a lot from late 70's early 80's heavy metal. In my book a reminder of what was the NWOBHM. And a revitalization of that style. Now I can't say if they've learned from music and what's happened in the past 30 years. From the sounds I could say maybe. A lot of them are fans of thrash metal and death metal, sound wise. Stuff like Enforcer sounds a bit thrashy, Cauldron sounds like it has a doom metal influence, Skull Fist I hear a bit of thrashness to it, and Alpha Tiger I definitely hear power metal influence. In my books they're doing a bit of what thrash is doing today.
-A little less well known, Like thrash I've heard some stuff from them and I've heard some bad. A lot of it isn't too derivative. Like the NWOBHM, I fear they'll get outextremed again or their relevance just won't be made known. And maybe for the right reasons in some sense.
-Oh yeah they were definitely inspired by 80's heavy metal. Production is generally pretty good. I don't think innovation is really too key here. I don't know how you can really innovate late 70's early 80's metal any further than what thrash did in '83.

And to people who don't know the sound I'll lay out some videos




That's NWOTHM

Thrash




Also the bassline to Await your death was fucking amazing. Get the bassist a beer.

Anyway do you guys have preferences for which you like more or think is doing better for metal in modern times?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's approximately a wash for me. Only a handful of interesting bands in either, and lots of redundant retro stuff. I'll vote retro-thrash just because the majority of this forum will go the other way.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

NWOTHM

 

[Halberd3]

It's approximately a wash for me. Only a handful of interesting bands in either, and lots of redundant retro stuff. I'll vote retro-thrash just because the majority of this forum will go the other way.

What do you mean? They'll go NWOTHM?

 

[no country for old wainds]

you can pick out an obscure '80s album at random and put it next to, say, five acclaimed new releases in either of these 'movements' and i'd probably be able to pick out the '80s one due to its superiority. but yeah overall i'm not sure there's much difference. very few great bands, plenty of solid but unmemorable/derivative bands, plenty of crap.

 

[Halberd3]

you can pick out an obscure '80s album at random and put it next to, say, five acclaimed new releases in either of these 'movements' and i'd probably be able to pick out the '80s one due to its superiority. but yeah overall i'm not sure there's much difference. very few great bands, plenty of solid but unmemorable/derivative bands, plenty of crap.

I think that comes with every musical movement. The NWOBHM had a lot..... of shit bands. Same with 80's thrash.

 

[no country for old wainds]

that's true to a point, and of course the '80s can seem better than it was because a lot of the shittier stuff has been totally forgotten at this point. still, i believe genres tend to have the most energy and creativity in their youth, just as most bands do. once they're categorised and blueprinted, or the world moves on from the climate that gave birth to those genres, you get a loss of the original 'spirit' and a devolution of standards, plus of course the longer a genre goes on the less room there is for real innovation or spaces in which to carve out a distinctive voice. couple that with the overall rise of 'postmodernism' and the accompanying democratisation of music, accelerated by the internet, and it's not surprising there's a lot more mediocrity around.

 

[Halberd3]

that's true to a point, and of course the '80s can seem better than it was because a lot of the shittier stuff has been totally forgotten at this point. still, i believe genres tend to have the most energy and creativity in their youth, just as most bands do. once they're categorised and blueprinted, or the world moves on from the climate that gave birth to those genres, you get a loss of the original 'spirit' and a devolution of standards, plus of course the longer a genre goes on the less room there is for real innovation or spaces in which to carve out a distinctive voice. couple that with the overall rise of 'postmodernism' and the accompanying democratisation of music, accelerated by the internet, and it's not surprising there's a lot more mediocrity around.

A lot of them are mediocre? Any of them that stood out?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I think that comes with every musical movement. The NWOBHM had a lot..... of shit bands. Same with 80's thrash.

Yeah, but the difference is while nearly every band in existence begins as a mediocre copycat of their influences, some stuck to it long enough to really build their songwriting skills and maybe even innovate a bit. Today the barrier-to-entry is extremely low with the internet and hyper niche markets, so anyone can pick one very specific sound, make a career out of that, and be content selling a couple hundred CDs to their target audience. I mean, Vektor was a little older than some of the other re-thrash bands, but since they've blown up you see 1) the two albums after really aren't much different from the first and 2) every other new tech-thrash band is a Vektor clone rather than at least a different kind of tech-thrash tribute band, let alone something new. In the 80s you really had to stick with it a while just to get signed to a second-tier metal label, and it was also harder to stand out.

 

[Halberd3]

Yeah, but the difference is while nearly every band in existence begins as a mediocre copycat of their influences, some stuck to it long enough to really build their songwriting skills and maybe even innovate a bit. Today the barrier-to-entry is extremely low with the internet and hyper niche markets, so anyone can pick one very specific sound, make a career out of that, and be content selling a couple hundred CDs to their target audience. I mean, Vektor was a little older than some of the other re-thrash bands, but since they've blown up you see 1) the two albums after really aren't much different from the first and 2) every other new tech-thrash band is a Vektor clone rather than at least a different kind of tech-thrash tribute band, let alone something new. In the 80s you really had to stick with it a while just to get signed to a second-tier metal label, and it was also harder to stand out.

But at the same time. It's made it easier for bands with potential to get noticed. I will admit. The nwothm has some killer melodies.

 

[Baroque]

Modern thrash (surprise) and I don't feel like debating this atm

 

[Master_Yoda77]

I find both terms to be pretty pointless. Neither of these genres went anywhere. Just because we've seen a recent resurgence in both doesn't mean there is a significant "movement" going on.

That being said, the dude who runs the NWOTHM youtube page has a lot of awesome shit on there.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

But at the same time. It's made it easier for bands with potential to get noticed. I will admit. The nwothm has some killer melodies.

Bands get noticed too early and it makes most of them lazy. Some exceptions, like In Solitude who worked their way up to Metal Blade and released the best new-trad album I've heard, but of course they couldn't make it last. But name these NWOTHM bands with killer melodies, Enforcer is fun and have good pop sensibility but they can't touch top NWOBHM, that Cauldron song in the OP sounds pretty basic, and that Katana song just sounds like a fake 2000s Maiden clone. I will admit that NWOTHM is generally stronger than retro-thrash when it comes to aesthetic, production, and vocalists, but there's not much else going for most of those bands.

Deceptor sorta did NWOTHM and new-thrash, and better than anyone else in either, maybe mixing them is the key.

 

[Pitiless Wanderer]

I'd take thrash any day and I don't even like thrash that much anymore.

 

[Halberd3]

Bands get noticed too early and it makes most of them lazy. Some exceptions, like In Solitude who worked their way up to Metal Blade and released the best new-trad album I've heard, but of course they couldn't make it last. But name these NWOTHM bands with killer melodies, Enforcer is fun and have good pop sensibility but they can't touch top NWOBHM, that Cauldron song in the OP sounds pretty basic, and that Katana song just sounds like a fake 2000s Maiden clone. I will admit that NWOTHM is generally stronger than retro-thrash when it comes to aesthetic, production, and vocalists, but there's not much else going for most of those bands.

Deceptor sorta did NWOTHM and new-thrash, and better than anyone else in either, maybe mixing them is the key.

Not even better guitarists or bassists? Or overall appeal to the tastes?

 

[Halberd3]

I find both terms to be pretty pointless. Neither of these genres went anywhere. Just because we've seen a recent resurgence in both doesn't mean there is a significant "movement" going on.

That being said, the dude who runs the NWOTHM youtube page has a lot of awesome shit on there.

Yes that he does. A lot of awesome shit. Maybe you're right there. But there's gotta be some reason for a resurgence.

 

[Master_Yoda77]

More people my age are discovering older underground 80s metal due to the increase in amazing heavy metal festivals in the US.

 

[Halberd3]

More people my age are discovering older underground 80s metal due to the increase in amazing heavy metal festivals in the US.

I wouldn't so much as call it 80's metal as I would call it an influence from the nwobhm.

 

[Halberd3]

Which leads to me to think. Would thrash still have happened without a band like Metallica? Do I see more extreme styles of metal as the eventual evolution of what was the nwobhm?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Not even better guitarists or bassists? Or overall appeal to the tastes?

I haven't heard much retro-trad notable on any of those fronts.

Which leads to me to think. Would thrash still have happened without a band like Metallica? Do I see more extreme styles of metal as the eventual evolution of what was the nwobhm?

Thrash and extreme metal in general would have happened a little more slowly without Metallica, but with Welcome to Hell many essential elements already were there.