Not a big Death Metal guy ? Explain why
- Thread starter Bruticus
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You're saying that from the standpoint of a person who listens to mainly genres where ideology is a total non-factor, which you can't do, as black metal is not one of those genres. You can't analyze a genre based on factors that define another.
And like it or not, black metal is based in ideology and must be analyzed as such. To not do so, is to have a flawed, surface-level understanding of it. And when you combine Christianity and black metal, it literally just ceases to be either. It may sound like black metal, it may look like black metal. But you cannot be a part of a genre when you are an affront to everything the genre represents.
Same as how black metal is an affront to Christianity. The two are just diametrically opposed; oil and water do not mix. And no amount of cheap buzzwords like "fart-huffing" will change that.
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EternalMetal
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I want to disagree with The Butt, but he's got a point. Black metal at its core is anti-Christian/religion and pro-pagan/satanist. Nevertheless, it has definitely evolved to become a musically stylistic genre as well. What do you call a modern black metal band that doesn't have those ideologies, but still sounds like straight up BM? Im talking about that space or nature or existentialist themed stuff mostly, but this is where the slippery slope begins.
And what happens when a good black metal band comes along with Christian lyrics? Do you call it black metal, do you decry it because 'religion', or are you actually calling it something else?
And what happens when a good black metal band comes along with Christian lyrics? Do you call it black metal, do you decry it because 'religion', or are you actually calling it something else?
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I might not listen to black metal as much as other genres, but 99% (maybe even 100%) of the black metal I listen to follows the ideological and aesthetic traditions you're talking about. By contrast I know you like DSBM so you're more willing than I am to enjoy black metal that strays the path.
Also in terms of analysis, that's a meme. Black metal bands could have been singing about jellybeans since 1989 and without the available lyrics you'd probably never have known. I'm judging the music purely on how it sounds.
Literally? That's just plain incorrect lmao.
Your entire position is filled with buzz. It's a genre of metal, all you have to do to play black metal is write music that is technically black metal. All the ideological stuff is just dressing and minutiae.
Allfader
Kvelding
The vast majority of black metal is still about:
- Worshipping an "evil" entity and/or blasphemy on the established "good" ones. This involves all bands praising Satan + being against god/christ, + the ones about Thelema and others using biblical references and adding philosophy to portray new branches of occultism or evil thoughts/ideas (like Deathspell Omega and all most dissonant black metal acts). This might also incorporate DSBM as well.
or
- Worshipping nature and ancient mythology. This involves all black/folk, viking, neo folk and pagan black metal bands.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
In terms of being founded on anti-religious/pro-satanic ideology death metal and black metal were really no different in the early days. Death metal is just more self-aware and black metal disappeared up its own asshole, probably because death metal approached those themes simply as a point of interest or parody, whereas black metal acts much more religiously about its anti-Abrahamism.
And I'll admit I get a small amount of amusement seeing people screech about "unblack" metal. They tend to oppose it louder than they do fascist black metal, which is ironic given the historical relationship fascism and organized religion has.
And I'll admit I get a small amount of amusement seeing people screech about "unblack" metal. They tend to oppose it louder than they do fascist black metal, which is ironic given the historical relationship fascism and organized religion has.
HamburgerBoy
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Black metal is not fundamentally ideological. Most of the big names of the first-wave disavowed their lyrics by the late 80s and admitted it was mostly shock-value. And as said above, death metal was just as anti-Christian early on. If black metal faggots had any consistency they'd admit that Slayer was an essential founding black metal band, but they don't because it makes other parts of the narrative complicated.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
It definitely attracts ideologues though, for me a big part of why it can be so insufferable. If you're telling me I could start a band, totally rip off a song by Darkthrone or Mayhem, change the lyrics to be about God defeating Satan, and it magically becomes not black metal, that's absolutely retarded.
Allfader
Kvelding
Sure. Music is mainly music, then anything else.
What is hard to argue is that black metal is a style that is quite more closed in terms of lyrical themes than the rest of the metal styles. The style's early and ongoing elitism, plus the deeper "urban tribe" subculture around it push the members of those groups to be far more personally involved with the style, thus making the product to meet certain "requirements" to be recognized as such by the other members of that self imposed group.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
What it means is that black metal isn't a musical genre, if the music itself can be disqualified based on how it's dressed up.
HamburgerBoy
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Not true. Just look at Liturgy and Sunbather. The era of elitist neo-fascist gatekeeping is over. WE are the new black metal.
Sophii
lil' rat
Krow
Garbage Connoisseur
Sophii
lil' rat
Allfader
Kvelding
Liturgy and Deafheaven are a joke for the black metal community and the vast majority of black metal bands still sing about the same shit that people did on early 90's.
Phylactery
Active Member
Are you talking about the musicians or the fans here? Because which early black metal bands don’t worship early Slayer?! And really any fan of the genre can see that Slayer were essential in shaping black metal.
I don’t really understand the “fart sniffing” comments either. The most pretentious black metal bands these days are ones like like Liturgy and Wolves in the Throne Room, which a lot of black metal fans don’t even care for. And if you’re taking about the fans, then the purer than thou kvlt types are such a small minority these days in my experience. 10-15 years ago yeah there was a lot of them in Internet circles, but not so much any more I don’t think.
Anyway that Horde album isn’t very good, black metal or not.
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CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
HamburgerBoy
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They might respect Slayer (though I'm pretty sure the early second-wave hipsters like Euronymous and Varg didn't, at least at the time), but they don't recognize Slayer as black metal. And yeah Araya's religious beliefs and his open statement that he thinks King's lyrics are shit kind of ruins that.
Most retro-thrash bands still sing about fairly ordinary Western political issues just as the bands of the 80s did. Black metal is a little more lyrically unified than some metal sub-genres, but it's hardly defining. I mean, power metal is still 90% fantasy/Tolkein/D&D shit afaik, but if a power metal band sings about sucking Satan's dick (Angelripper's way of describing black metal iirc) they're still power metal.
Most retro-thrash bands still sing about fairly ordinary Western political issues just as the bands of the 80s did. Black metal is a little more lyrically unified than some metal sub-genres, but it's hardly defining. I mean, power metal is still 90% fantasy/Tolkein/D&D shit afaik, but if a power metal band sings about sucking Satan's dick (Angelripper's way of describing black metal iirc) they're still power metal.
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