Official GMD Photo/Social Thread
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@ the YTMND and the sig. That is great.
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I could understand if perhaps you'd said "culture", but what the fuck does any one race have to be proud of?
Matt
Active Member
Décadent;5618225 said:
So it's also wrong to be proud of your parents, then? After all, it's just flesh and blood, right? And it's not like we choose them ourselves!
Well, I don't see why it should be so terribly wrong to be proud of your heritage. It's exactly the same as being proud of a tradition or something like that, which, in my opinion, is what makes up a huge part of our cultures, which again, is what is responsible for creating a lot of the beautiful things that mankind has spawned.
And also bear in mind, that there is a huge difference between feeling pride for your own heritage, and thinking that other peoples' heritage is less than desireable.
And also bear in mind, that there is a huge difference between feeling pride for your own heritage, and thinking that other peoples' heritage is less than desireable.
It doesn't seem worthwhile being proud of something as abstract as race, since it does not in any way affect your life.
skeptik
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Your heritage isn't an accomplishment though, so I don't see how the idea of pride, which is a feeling evoked through accomplishments, even applies to that concept at all. Why are you proud of being born into something? You had nothing to do with that. You're proud of having been the product of a given set of circumstances?
skeptik
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No, but a lot of that would be dictated by society as well, so it's kind of an unfair example, and really has nothing to do with the pride argument.
I don't feel that there's anything theoretically "wrong" with pride, it just doesn't seem to make sense to be proud of something you had nothing to do with.
That's an issue of perception and cultural conditioning. The point isn't whether or not I would be the same person, merely that if I chose to be, I could be the same person.
Which is exactly why I brought up the parents example. And, well, yes, I suppose I am. My family have lived in this land for well over a thousand years, and that is just what we have been able to trace, and they have been a part of making this country what it is today. And now, I am given the chance to carry on that legacy, and do my best to contribute with what I can, which I do, by teaching, and that gives me a sense of pride.
Of course, chances are, that if I was some pathetic loser, who sat at the local pub at three a clock in a afternoon and drank beer, with my own little private straw in the budget, I wouldn't feel particularly proud.
And I suppose that, in the process of proving my own point, I also just proved yours...
Hubster
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I think this can be expanded on somewhat.
Most ethnic races have cultural celebrations of some kind, whether related to marriages, or something else, for e.g. Diwali for Hindus. It doesn't celebrate race as such though, and I think that as a generalisation, "race" celebration isn't needed anyway.
I think to be passively (somewhat privately) proud of your ethnic roots is okay, but showing aggressive pride is pathetic, and this is the part that most people seem to fall into.
imo it is an unfortunate factor that race pride among whites is done very aggressively as a result of racial insecurity and National Socialism (and also among American blacks too for that matter but as a result of anger for the slavery).
Generally, I think the white pride thing is taken negatively because for example, if a black person celebrates Black Pride it is not to show that they are superior, it's to show that they're EQUAL, and this is because of the slavery etc in the past.
With white pride - how is this pride thing justified in a white context? How have whites been enslaved and scrutinised against as much as non-whites around the world have over the ages? I dont mean to sound racist I love multiculturalism, I love all races and find everyones culture fascinating.
I'm not saying that whites have no right to celebrate their culture - but their COLOUR? What the fuck? Again, they haven't been condemned for their colour.
On another tangent, I do empathise with Scandanavians for example - a minority celebrate their Viking and Pagan heritage, and I think this is good. I don't see Christianity as their real culture, their true ties are to the earth, forests and mountains, not the Church.
Anyway - everyone is human to me at the end of the day. If people can respect themselves and the different people around them as equals, that is all that matters. Diversity and respect is an important key to knowledge and appreciation.
Apologies if any offence is caused by my post - it's merely an observation.
Most ethnic races have cultural celebrations of some kind, whether related to marriages, or something else, for e.g. Diwali for Hindus. It doesn't celebrate race as such though, and I think that as a generalisation, "race" celebration isn't needed anyway.
I think to be passively (somewhat privately) proud of your ethnic roots is okay, but showing aggressive pride is pathetic, and this is the part that most people seem to fall into.
imo it is an unfortunate factor that race pride among whites is done very aggressively as a result of racial insecurity and National Socialism (and also among American blacks too for that matter but as a result of anger for the slavery).
Generally, I think the white pride thing is taken negatively because for example, if a black person celebrates Black Pride it is not to show that they are superior, it's to show that they're EQUAL, and this is because of the slavery etc in the past.
With white pride - how is this pride thing justified in a white context? How have whites been enslaved and scrutinised against as much as non-whites around the world have over the ages? I dont mean to sound racist I love multiculturalism, I love all races and find everyones culture fascinating.
I'm not saying that whites have no right to celebrate their culture - but their COLOUR? What the fuck? Again, they haven't been condemned for their colour.
On another tangent, I do empathise with Scandanavians for example - a minority celebrate their Viking and Pagan heritage, and I think this is good. I don't see Christianity as their real culture, their true ties are to the earth, forests and mountains, not the Church.
Anyway - everyone is human to me at the end of the day. If people can respect themselves and the different people around them as equals, that is all that matters. Diversity and respect is an important key to knowledge and appreciation.
Apologies if any offence is caused by my post - it's merely an observation.
hibernal_dream
A Mind Forever Voyaging
I agree with the rest of your post but what do today's blacks and whites have to do with their respective slavery and enslavement? If it doesn't have anything to do with what you yourself have done or achieved, it isn't anything to feel proud or ashamed of.
What you should be proud of, and this is common to all races, is making the best of your own circumstances given what you've got.
Hubster
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I mentioned that because its still relatively recent. It's only in the last sixty or so years (perhaps even less) that they have been given equal rights. Thats not a long time in terms of history.
byrne
Certavi et vici
all races have their extremists - not just blacks and whites. asians, middle eastern people (etc.) do too. pride in any one race is no more justified than in any other, regardless of the past / how recent the past was.
in particular you are narrowing your view of "black pride" to positive demonstration of equality and your view of "white pride" to active genocide.
as far as being proud of something goes, no one here should be telling people what they should and should not be proud of. pride is a personal thing and entirely circumstantial. its based on ones own experiences and therefore is inherently individual. you can only begin to critique a persons pride if it is clearly unfounded (and no, no one has demonstrated that CV has baseless pride and i doubt they will) or demonstrated in a damaging manner.
in particular you are narrowing your view of "black pride" to positive demonstration of equality and your view of "white pride" to active genocide.
as far as being proud of something goes, no one here should be telling people what they should and should not be proud of. pride is a personal thing and entirely circumstantial. its based on ones own experiences and therefore is inherently individual. you can only begin to critique a persons pride if it is clearly unfounded (and no, no one has demonstrated that CV has baseless pride and i doubt they will) or demonstrated in a damaging manner.
Hubster
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I am narrowing it, but my reasons for it are because I've found the two expressed in these forms to be the most common or widespread. I know there are both passive and aggressive versions of both, but the two versions you described are the ones I've seen the most.
I feel that as long as culturally ethnic expressions of pride (to generalise the topic) are done passively and in a manner which does not promote racial elitism, then overall it's okay. As long as people understand that at the end of the day, all races are equal, give or take the various differences.
Our differences between cultures are positive and learning tools, not negatives. It's a shame more people don't realise it.
byrne
Certavi et vici
Hubster
...
with food being the best example. except for chinese food
Most definitely - but I have to say that I swing towards Thai, I just can't get enough of Thai food. I'm salivating just thinking about it.
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