opeth and tool

dont get me wrong i have all of tools albums, ive listened to all their songs. good music... but progressive? no. maybe if i was used to listening to radio songs all day and heard a tool song on the radio it would stand out from the rest as being a lot more "progressive" then them...
 
Originally posted by KielbasaSausage
dont get me wrong i have all of tools albums, ive listened to all their songs. good music... but progressive? no. maybe if i was used to listening to radio songs all day and heard a tool song on the radio it would stand out from the rest as being a lot more "progressive" then them...

How do you define progressive then? Do you mean like Opeth or Dream Theater? Or something completely different?

BTW: The songs on the radio are edited down, which takes away all the good stuff about the song. Besides, they don't even play the best on the radio. They just play the shortest ones.
 
Tool has actually had enormous growth. Undertow is their weakest album. If you can't see the changes from then on, then it's rather laughable. The lyrics on Undertow, about half the songs, are very average and without skill (while the other half is great, of course). AEnima is a masterpiece, as is Lateralus. There is a lot of intricate details through both, although more on Lateralus. The lyrical growth is VERY obvious. Although AEnima had some awesome lyrics, Lateralus is so much more balanced. Also, the lyrics and music of Lateralus is mature. It's from from trying to act like some crazed youth, when Maynard is what? 38? The music of Tool is certainly progressive, even in its simplicity. It's incredibly subtle. Finally, Maynard is one of the best vocalists I've ever heard, if not the best. He has a great range and has incredible emotion in his voice. Tool is not a band to look at with each part individually, dissecting each section. Tool is a band to look at the whole, and once you do, you'll probably realize just how brilliant and appealing it is.
 
Well I've read all of this thread and theres some very interesting and very ignorant comments flying about. I don't have much to say but here goes:

Firstly I LOVE Radiohead, one of my favourite bands of all time, particulary OK Computer, Kid A and Amnesiac which are combined three of the greatest triumphs in modern music. Secondly I used to be obsessed with Tool, but don't listen to them so much anymore. However, they hold a place in my heart no other band does, and I am thankful to them for my subsequent forays into more 'progressive' groups and other metal bands. And lastly, of course, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Opeth...that kinda oges without saying.

I am a fellow Radiohead fanatic to you MA, but your behaviour in this thread and attitude towards Tool is disgusting. It would not be so wrong if your view was subjective, and you said 'I don't like Tool because of this and this and this'. Instead your view is covered in ignorant comments, your whole view seems based on how Tool compares to Radiohead and this is idiotic to say the least.

This is how it seems to me, and yet, what the fuck warrants a comparison of either of these groups? My god...they are so different as to make a comparison laughable. And basing your opinion of Tool, and treating others opinions in a scornful way because you are sick of people calling Tool 'progressive', when you think Radiohead is much more so, is also pretty close-minded. You must try to base Tool on its own merits.

I think Tool have become 'progressive hard rock/metal' with Lateralus. The epic songs, the odd time-structures...Reflection, Lateralis, The Grudge, if these aren't progressive songs I don't know what is. On Aenima there were glimpses of this new progressive twist to their music with classics like 'Pushit' and 'Third Eye' (best Tool track EVER!). They are progressive in a wholey different sense than Radioheads music so who really gives a poop about how they compare to each other??]

Also...Sober and Schism being similar in anyway is absolutely laughable. For starters they have different time signatures...and that massive mid-section of Schism...how the fuck does that bare any resemblence to anything in sober!? Sober is much more normally structured with chorus/verse a lot more, whereas Schism goes on this huge tangent at the end into this entirely new part. Are you on drugs!? I don't get this....

Well thats me done.

ps. @TheLedTool...You are right, they have progressed a in a massive way since their beginnings with Opiate...which I liked better than Undertow, which has been my least favourite Tool ever since I got it years ago.
 
Originally posted by KielbasaSausage
ya id never compare tool and radiohead, but i still dont think tool is progressive.

They are 'progressive' simply in a much different way then most 'progressive purists' would think qualifies as fitting to the concept and ideals of what 'progressive' music should sound like. Its all about preconceptions my friend. ;)
 
Originally posted by KielbasaSausage
ya i guess you can apply you're preconception view of 'progressive' to any band - even "the Locusts"

Well...I suppose preconeptions are a bit of a double edged sword. You could say a band that isn't really progressive is progressive based on what you know, or that a progressive band doesn't qualify as being so. In the end its too fucking vague a definition to actually know what the hell being 'progressive' is.

I'm just using my preconception on the matter to label Tool as 'progressive' although you could easily not agree with me. ;)
 
Originally posted by Vile1011
I actually got into Opeth because people compared it to Tool. Numerous people were going on and on about how one note of Opeth completely obliterated everything Tool had ever done, and how Tool was in effect a crippled mosquito in comparison to the gods that were Opeth.

Opeth came in with all biases against them. Up until then I had never heard a band even approaching Tool. Their music just appeals to my personal tastes more than any other band I've heard. So I gave Opeth a try with the preconceived opinion: "They're over-rated".

Well, Opeth took that preconceived opinion and beat the holy hell out of it. A few months later, I've bought all of their CDs and can't find one song I don't like.

Tool and Opeth both share the #1 slot, alternating back and forth depending on which one I'm listening to at the moment. Both bands accomplish their goal in very different ways, and in many areas the weaknesses of one bad are the strengths of the other. Tool has more emotional energy, and their songs rarely feel like a stream of riffs pasted end on end. One of my major complaints about Opeth is most of their songs lack true climaxes. Bleak is one of my favorite songs, but about 3/4 of the way through it just repeats itself, instead of giving us a good finisher. Tool are much better and making songs that actually go someplace without adhering to the stone-set structure of most mainstream rock. With the proper buildup, progression, and juxtaposition of segments, a guitar chord that never would have liften your eyebrow by itself can become the most emotion piece of music you've ever heard.

While Opeth songs are usually just riffs pasted end on end, they are EXTREMELY good riffs pasted end on end. Their soft sections are soothing, the heavy sections empowering, the transitionals perfect.

Tool could never pull of The Funeral Portrait, Opeth could never pull of Third Eye. People who love Opeth for their style of music may not appreciate Tool's method, and vice versa.

Vile, my thoughts exactly! You are a clone!;)
 
I'm sure someone pointed this out, but no one said Tool was any form of extreme metal. Thats just plain stupid to say that.

I for one, would love to see Opeth opening for Tool for a North American tour. Most people would probably hate them. All bands that open for Tool usually get booed. Meshuggah for example.
 
Originally posted by Battman
I'm sure someone pointed this out, but no one said Tool was any form of extreme metal. Thats just plain stupid to say that.

I for one, would love to see Opeth opening for Tool for a North American tour. Most people would probably hate them. All bands that open for Tool usually get booed. Meshuggah for example.

sounds like a bunch of slack fans.


perhaps they would enjoy opeth who knows...
 
ya im sure everyone that likes opeth doesnt mind tool in the least bit. but i have to say all of tool's other fans are fuckin retarded closed-minded idiots. lotta my friends praise tool in every fuckin way saying "oh look at the drummers kit soo many cymbals best drummer in the world" and other crap like that. now that i think of it they are not my friends just allies lol
 
Myself being a huge Opeth fan, I think Tool is one of the best bands out there. They're so creative and original, not like nu-metal shit (meaning: Tool is NOT nu-metal).
My list of best bands:

1. Soundgarden
2. Opeth
3. Tool
 
Originally posted by redreflection
I had to reply to this..........

That's ridiculous!!!!!!!! Disposition is a lead into Reflection, and if Reflection is not enough energy at the end of Lateralus, then you must be deaf.

Reflection is the single most powerful song i have heard in my life.

I said I didn't like Disposition... on the other hand, I do enjoy Reflection a lot. It may be the lead-in to it, but I think the album would be better if it had another song with more interesting vocals in place of Disposition. It's just my opinion, that's all. I happen to think the album would flow better with a different song there. Triad is an interesting track and all but after their other 3 discs all having great epic songs to end the cd; this one doesn't do it for me as much.
 
masters i agree with everyone who is against you.... there is a clear evolution from album to album....are u kidding me sober the same as schism????, do u have any understanding of time signatures, chord progressions, basslines or vocal patterns?? because if u did, youd notice that the two songs have complete different structures and sounds...a dumb comment. your entitled to your opinion obviously, thats fine, music is subjective..but your reasoning is terrible..discussion over.
 
Anyone who lumps TOOL with bands like Limp Bizquit and Disturbed just don't know what the hell they're talking about. I agree that TOOL is "progressive hard rock" but they are FAR from nu-metal. What are you people listening to that make you think they're nu-metal? Most of the nu-metal bands I've heard use a lot of rap/rock vocals, the music is simple with no solos and d-tuned guitar and the songs are never over the 4-5 minute mark. Tool's latest album Lateralus includes quite a few tracks that are in between the 7-10 minute mark and their are no rap/rock vocals. Or is it their image? The nu-metal image seems to portray a baggy clothing look with the members of the band "bouncing" on stage. Tool's clothing is normal and the band doesn't show much emotion on stage.
 
Originally posted by Cynical Bastard
I said I didn't like Disposition... on the other hand, I do enjoy Reflection a lot. It may be the lead-in to it, but I think the album would be better if it had another song with more interesting vocals in place of Disposition. It's just my opinion, that's all. I happen to think the album would flow better with a different song there. Triad is an interesting track and all but after their other 3 discs all having great epic songs to end the cd; this one doesn't do it for me as much.

I love Disposition. It's such a somber track, and it's a pefect lead-in to Reflection. I don't think that the lyrics matter so much because it is a lead-in. It's not really meant to be on its own. As for Triad, I think it's a great ending song (not counting Faaip De Oiad) because it's such a blast of energy at the end, stemming from the very quiet Reflection. It and The Grudge are perfect bookends.
 
Regarding the comment about Tool being "corporate rock," how would you explain the big fight/law suit they had against their label?

And addressing the Sober/Schism thing, I personally feel that they are two completely different songs, but whatever, to each his own. However, I would like to point out that the old bassist was behind Sober, whereas the "new" guy, Justin, wrote Schism. I don't know about you, but both bassists have totally different styles are very, very evident in their songs. (Compare Opiate/Undertow to Aenima/Lateralus.)

But if you don't like Tool, then you don't like them. Just like you can't expect everyone to like Opeth (or ANY band), you can't expect everyone to like Tool. I don't understand why people are so close minded that they simply can't fathom other people disliking the bands they like/love. To me that's just a sign of insecurity and immaturity.

But for those of us who do happen to like them (both Tool and Opeth), more power to us. We know we're getting satisfaction from both bands' music, and nothing can take that away.

:headbang: