SX and Paradise Lost = Satanic ??

[Statler Waldorf]

First, there's nothing but the word of the people who wrote the collective bible to "prove" any of it. Jeff's point is that the scientific community requires proof and the process is entirely transparent, so anyone can see how the person arrived at their conclusions and what evidence they have to support it. The bible doesn't have that. Now, if one chooses to believe it and take it on faith that this is the truth (as is the whole point of the religion), that's awesome. Good for them. It's strange when Canto will be ok with that method but deny things that require sticking to strict guidelines to prove.

Misrepresentation of the facts. Only peer-reviewed technical journals require the oversight you described, not your text books and not your instructors. Secondly, the places, historical events, and people discussed in the Bible are all supported by archeology, and the Bible is often used as a reference for modern archeology. Pretty interesting considering you paint it as a fairy tale book with no validity. How could a book be accurate enough for historians and archeologists to use but not some guy on a Symphony X forum? Funny ol' world isn't it?

 

[razoredge]

I agree with the joke...... lets give this a stab.... for more laughs

Where did God come from ?

 

[Wander]

I agree with the joke...... lets give this a stab.... for more laughs

Where did God come from ?

My answer: He came from human mind.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Misrepresentation of the facts. Only peer-reviewed technical journals require the oversight you described, not your text books and not your instructors. Secondly, the places, historical events, and people discussed in the Bible are all supported by archeology, and the Bible is often used as a reference for modern archeology. Pretty interesting considering you paint it as a fairy tale book with no validity. How could a book be accurate enough for historians and archeologists to use but not some guy on a Symphony X forum? Funny ol' world isn't it?

This post is awesome because i never did paint it as a fairy tale book. I don't take it as a religious text, i think there his historical validity (though I don't believe it's 100% accurate) and i think again, it has a great basis for good moral values. My problem with the bible is that it is used as a weapon by religious extremists to put themselves above other people. I also have a problem with people who take it as fact without even thinking about questioning it.

As for the scientific community, you're right. But most text books are written by people with degrees in the field they are teaching and thus, are written by the people who generally know more about that subject than anyone else. They are also often written by a number of people or at the very least they have contributions from others. You make it sound as though any ol' jackoff can bullshit an entire textbook and get it into schools. This just is not the case. As for instructors, i will not attempt to defend every instructor in the world. I'm sure there are some that are shit. I've had a few myself. But we're not talking about school or instructors, we're talking about the peer reviewed scientific community and the folks who spend their lives studying and researching these subjects. You're making this into something that you can argue when that's not the point of the discussion, so please, let's not change the point of the subject.

 

[Kenneth R.]

I love throwing wrenches. It makes me happy. Here is another wrench in the face of this thread.

I'm a christian.
I believe in evolution.

 

[Swabs]

I seriously think some people have missed the crux of my posts.

CantoX, you said that it's up to people to think for themselves because neither Science nor Religion can prove themselves? Well that I agree with.

BUT: If people did properly think for themselves, I see no reason to decide to believe a God exists. Because although neither side can prove themselves.. Science is the only side that is able to (and has done) find evidence that supports its theories, not "proves", supports.

Until a religion can can conduct research and find reliable evidence to support its theories, then I won't even consider it. And I don't see why anyone else would...... And then we get into the "Blind Faith" argument...blablablabla.

 

[razoredge]

Wheres Waldo............ ?...... oh Waldo

Where did God come from ?

 

[Kenneth R.]

You're basically saying that your opinion should be shared by everyone. You're asking religion to conduct science. In a sense I agree. We must be rational and rigorous in our search for truth, yet if religion did use rational means to provide evidence, you would ascribe it to science, and credit not religion. So you've basically set up religion to fail in your worldview Swabs. Great if that's your view. I respect it. But you can't ask others to share it and call themselves rational.

 

[Swabs]

I'm not asking others to share it. I'm just saying that from my point of view belief in a God is illogical. People can do it as much as they like, I just don't know why and nobody has been able to explain to me why.

So far I have only been able to come to the conclusion that religion is based on dogma and blind faith.

 

[CantoX]

Nobody will explain to you why you should believe in a faith, it's up to you to find out if you really want to believe in a religion or believe in God.

What makes you come to those conclusions that religion is just about blind faith? Religion, for me, is a way to a good life, can you explain to me that I have blind faith because I want to have a good life? Guidlines are really nice, especially in todays world.
Have you even given any of the three major religions a chance? Have you actually picked up a Bible, Torah, and Quran and said hey, you know what, i'm actually going to read into this and maybe I'll give it a chance. Well, we know you picked up a Bible and seemlesly laughed at it..

 

[progmetaldan]

I would highly recommend everyone actually read the bible before dismissing it.

I actually I disagree.

It's not just religious people's crackpot theories that I think is illogical and senseless.

But it's the very belief in the existance of a God that I have a problem with. My parents are Christians, I grew up in a Christian household, but as a child, before I even started to study science in any extensive manner I thought "wait, this makes no sense at all".

I just don't see any logical reason to belive in a God in the first place, there's no evidence to suggest he/she/it exists. You can't use "Nature and Creation" as evidence, because they don't, in any way, suggest that a God exists. And not to mention, Nature/Humans ect is no evidence for the existance of a specific God , be it the Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish or Islamic God. So why choose to belive soley in say.. the Christian God for example? You cannot say "because the bible lol". As not only is the Bible simply not evidence, but it's generally one of the most unreliable sources of information ever.

Blind faith is an ironic gift to return to the "Creator of human intelligence." (It's also a pretty decent song, but thats irrelevent )

To be honest, I don't know why I'm posting this. No religious person has ever been able to explain to me why they themselves chose to believe in a God, based on anything that can actually be taken as evidence.

(I say "themselves" because obviously many people are forced into it by their family)

Did you not read my epic post further back (how could you have missed it? ) I explained why I myself am a Christian, and what I believe in. I was brought up in a Christian home, but I haven't been brainwashed, I've learned a lot about other religions as well, and I've made the decision to believe what I believe because I believe it to be the truth and I'll stand by that.

Progmetaldan - Thank you for giving a response that says exactly what religion and spiritualism is all about: Faith. Not needing to search for evidence, but just believing it because you want to.

no probs.

Allow me to decipher for you:

"MJR is objectively the best guitarist on the planet," they mean it's something

zomg!1 but JohN Petruci is teh best!1

Yeah, they wrote the whole thing on Jesus's birthday.

Just to clarify, the bible wasn't written as one big book, it didn't come together like that until well after Jesus' time on earth...

The first 5 books (known as the Torah which make up Jewish law) were written around 6000 years ago, its thought by Moses, the books from Joshua through to about Esther are more historical and were written by various authors, mostly stories, epics, historical accounts of battles, kings etc. in the development of Israel as a nation, Psalms, Proverbs etc. are poetry and songs and Isaiah, Jeremiah etc. were prophesy. That is the Old-Testament, which was all written many years before the birth of Christ. The new Testament begins with the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John which are accounts of Jesus life written by eyewitnesses. Them come the letters from Paul to various churches throughout the Roman empire who at the time were undergoing persecution. These were written over Pauls life span before he died in Rome. Then there's a couple of other letters, and then Revelation which is prophesy of things to come (and if you actually read it you'll realise some of the stuff is happening right now...)

What I'm getting at is that the amazing thing about the bible is that it was written over a span of over 5000 years, by many different authors, and yet it doesn't contradict itself, stuff which was written back in the Old-Testament was witnessed by people in the New-Testament, and when put all together, gives some amazingly insightful information, which at the time, could have been given by none other than God himself.

But even if you don't believe in God, the bible is still an amazing book, and it is stupid to suggest you could even have Christianity without it.

I love throwing wrenches. It makes me happy. Here is another wrench in the face of this thread.

I'm a christian.
I believe in evolution.

Please clarify this statement. Do you believe that things, theories, processes can 'evolve' over time, or do you actually believe that life began via the theory of evolution?

 

[noble savage]

Evolution has nothing to do with abiogenesis.

 

[progmetaldan]

Evolution is a word that can mean a lot of things, thats why I just wanted clarification on the context that he was saying it in.

EDIT: Sorry, I mean human life.

 

[noble savage]

Evolution is a word that can mean a lot of things, thats why I just wanted clarification on the context that he was saying it in.

EDIT: Sorry, I mean human life.

Oh ok, I mis read that.

Some may find this video interesting. Ken Miller was one of the scientists in favor of teaching evolution at the Pennsylvania Dover trial a few years ago. He actively opposes ID. He is also a practicing Christian and explains why evolution is important.

Statler, please watch this video. This man is brilliant and he explains your arguments better than I ever could.

 

[CantoX]

Ohh videos !
There are a lot of videos I saw by and inspired by this guy named Harun Yahya, talking about a lot of ideas of today. A lot of the videos I found very interesting. Most of them are based on the Islamic faith.

http://www.harunyahya.tv/detail.php?l=4&pid=1245&cid=76

^^Saw that one, it's about evolution. On that site theres like 10 other videos proving ( or attempting to ) evolution is wrong in the eyes of Islam. Theres also videos about Jesus, atheism, science, and lots of other things.. so if you were ever interested in the Islamic view of things you can check those videos out.

 

[Wander]

What I'm getting at is that the amazing thing about the bible is that it was written over a span of over 5000 years, by many different authors, and yet it doesn't contradict itself

I didn't really care to read all the shit in your post, BUT THAT IS THE BIGGEST LOAD OF CRAP I'VE EVER HEARD.

"The bible doesn't contradict itself!?!?!?!" PLEASE! Have actually read the book yourself?




Nothing else to add.


Humanity is flawed.


Nothing else to add.

 

[razoredge]

Humanity is flawed.

thats because we were created in the image of an imperfect god

WHO CAME FROM WHERE ?........... Waldo......... oh Waldo

 

[Swabs]

thats because we were created in the image of an imperfect god

WHO CAME FROM WHERE ?........... Waldo......... oh Waldo

Or God was created in the image of an imperfect race.

 

[Wander]

Or God was created in the image of an imperfect race.

Exactly. Why so many can't see it this way, I don't know.

Imo. The real questions are:

How did universe and therefor life come to exist?
Why does universe exist?
Why does life exist?

Ofcourse, it's quite useless to ask the last two questions as no one can have a sensible answer to them. The first one seems just as impossible though. Where did the materia come from? Has all the stuff always been here?

 

[Swabs]

did the materia come from?

Final Fantasy.


But seriously, I've made my points and stated my opinions, so I officialy resign myself from this never ending debate.

(Unless someone makes an absolutely ridiculous post, then I'll probably come back just to rip the shit out of them )