SX and Paradise Lost = Satanic ??

[Horus]

The planet doesn't cause any problems. We create environments in which problems are able to happen.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

I've seen Mother Earths effects more times than youve seen Gods

Mother Earth? Uh oh!!! That's a term used in Wicca (Gaia), yes a religion, you're dangerously close to losing your scientific validity dude and becoming a religious zealot . I was actually not talking about natural phenomena when I posted that, but nobody seems to care.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Got any evidence to support that?

Man, you're such a fucking hypocrite, it's not even funny any more.

Actually yes, the big bang theory (orginally proposed by a Priest) has huge religious implications. Thus why physics has theorized the existance of "God Particles". The particle that has not yet been found, but must exist in order for the big bang to occur and to reverse the second law of thermodynamics. Oh my!! A modern cornerstone of historical physics actually proposed by a religious man!! How could this be? I thought the last Christian with a brain was Sir Isaac Newton. The religious bigotry in here appauls me, especially the comment about evangelical christians (which I am not one).

 

[Statler Waldorf]

But if God didnt tell us that he must not have and simple deduction would conclude that if he did every star would have a planetary system with a planet with the perfect environment to place more perfect images of himself to grovel at his feet.... invisable feet that is

Well its all too complicated so lets stick to this planet

Did God create the Dinosaurs ?

Actually the Bible says that stars are there for navigational purposes not to put more perfect planets around. Kind of funny how the only practical use for astronomy for man for the last 10,000 years has been for navigation.

 

[noble savage]

Actually yes, the big bang theory (orginally proposed by a Priest) has huge religious implications. Thus why physics has theorized the existance of "God Particles". The particle that has not yet been found, but must exist in order for the big bang to occur and to reverse the second law of thermodynamics. Oh my!! A modern cornerstone of historical physics actually proposed by a religious man!! How could this be? I thought the last Christian with a brain was Sir Isaac Newton. The religious bigotry in here appauls me, especially the comment about evangelical christians (which I am not one).

The higgs boson is the particle theorized to give mass to other particles. It has nothing to do with the big bang. The big bang most likely occurred when gravity split from the three other forces in the singularity. When nothing is certain, it is a lie to say something must exist. What if the ekpyrotic theory (A prediction of M-theory) turns out to be true?

Did you watch the video of Kenneth Miller I recommended you watch? He and Freeman Dyson are Christians and they are both brilliant scientists.



Also, I stand by my evangelical Christian comment. I'd choose a pitchfork to the neck over being stuck in that place (If I believed in it that is.)

 

[Statler Waldorf]

The higgs boson is the particle theorized to give mass to other particles. It has nothing to do with the big bang. The big bang most likely occurred when gravity split from the three other forces in the singularity. When nothing is certain, it is a lie to say something must exist. What if the ekpyrotic theory (A prediction of M-theory) turns out to be true?

Did you watch the video of Kenneth Miller I recommended you watch? He and Freeman Dyson are Christians and they are both brilliant scientists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVRsWAjvQSg

Also, I stand by my evangelical Christian comment. I'd choose a pitchfork to the neck over being stuck in that place (If I believed in it that is.)

Well I am not a Physicist, but I did take Advanced Physics and we learned about God-particles.

 

[razoredge]

Want to point us to where the bible says god created the stars for navigational purposes ?
the verse and exact quote will do, nothing less...... and it better be from Genesis..... not after mans discovery.... which we are well aware, everything was credited to........ uh....... god

My "scientific validity"? I have no science and I do believe in the nurturing of Mother Earth and all things natural, key word....... natural. I have touched her, tasted her, smelt her, fed off her, lived off her and will die on her....... yes in deed I believe she is real and has been the key to my vitality and that of all things living. I came by this from simply living, as I choose to live, not some book, twas simple evaluation..... something more humans should try.

I suppose peoples living in the desert sands might not appreaciate the earth as a country boy from N America does.... that and with the sun and thirst assulting their brain cells all the time might explain the lack of rationality seen throughout history in the birth place of all the almighty religious books..... even hardy born American white boys have said the desert can do things to a mans mind..... go figure..... not that I mean to implicate any form of insanity is present in the middle east............. or followed the almighty books where ever they may roam.........

Givin the size of the universe I also believe there are other planets that sustain life now and others that will in the far distant future. I lack the arrogance of the believers in gods special children and the concern of scientists to answer the unknown when there is more important and less expensive fish to fry where we live. All that doesnt make me brain dead or lack the ability to ponder many things in my spare time.

Wanna point to any statements made here by rational participants that indicate that believers in god have not existed and could not exist in the scientific or exploritory world ?

If there are "god particals" floating around waiting to be discovered.... does this mean god took the big bang ? Perhaps got clunked upside the head by a big meteor ?

After god created the earth and the heavens what did he do during the lenghtly pre historic ages by which the existence of mankind is petty ? Did he talk to the Dinosaurs ? Did he blow a icy cold wind and create the ice age ? Was he kind to the caveman ?.... I would hate to think Fred and Barney were not treated kindly. When lightning struck up its first discovered fire did Fred and Barney fall to their knees and say "praise the lord" ?

Theres just so many questions and you no doubt are the one that can come up with the answers......... thumb through your good book please.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Well I am going to bow out of this one. I guess if none of it's true and Christianity is all just made up I still led a good life and didn't lose anything from it, so no worries. You guys have a good night.

 

[razoredge]

what no balls ? to much heat in the kitchen ? dance floors a hoppin' but they aint playin your tune ?

 

[Statler Waldorf]

what no balls ? to much heat in the kitchen ? dance floors a hoppin' but they aint playin your tune ?

Actually I posted my good bye post at the same time as your's so I didn't see your's. However I stand by it, nobody else on here as been held to your APA style citations so therefore I owe you nothing. Trust me though, I was not scared off by your post, Noble Savage at least knows his material. Though there are things in life more absurd than believing in an all powerful God that created the universe in all it's beauty and complexity, and the first one that comes to mind is believing in Aliens

 

[proulxski]

Originally Posted by Statler Waldorf
I wasn't there, but I would say that current theories indicate yes.

No body was there to witness it, anyone can say they made it!

Well I am going to bow out of this one. I guess if none of it's true and Christianity is all just made up I still led a good life and didn't lose anything from it, so no worries. You guys have a good night.

I agree with Razoredge, you started a fire, wanted it to get bigger, and now you're backing out! I'm not going to question Christianity and whether its plausable or not, I just will not stand-by and be talked down to by Christians, or 'god' or another damn religion. That is the differince, along with certain degrees of religion, there are certain degrees of respect!

Are we going to blame God for incidents in which one person willfully does evil on another? Some would argue yes, God could step in and stop it. But if God always stopped you from committing evil, you would have no free will. Not only would you lack free will, but the world that God created, supposedly in our interest as an omnibenevolent being, would lack moral significance. It would lack significance because no matter your choice, you would be forced to do good. (God steps in). As God is also supposed to be omnipotent and omniscient, he would by definition also know how to create the best possible world, and be capable of doing so. Evil done by humans increases the moral significance of our world. The choice between good and bad is more significant when there are many more bad choices. If we still choose good, then we prove our character even more so than if there were few bad choices. Furthermore, this world allows for freedom of will. But what about the victim? Again, it provides an opportunity for moral character. Instead of retaliating, if the victim forgives the assailant, moral significance is gained. Again a choice is presented.

Very nice Ken, as far as a Christian believes, god gives you choices, doesn't make them for you! And I agree with this and your beliefs, I just find that in life I make my own choices as well as present the possible options to the table on my own. Once again I am Agnostic, I don' try to believe, or disbelieve.

I honestly believe the universe is endless, but I have no proof to back this up! Its just a gut instinct. Like if you ask most Christians how do you know God exists they will tell you "We just know!" its not about science, or witnessing god, its just about believing!

You only ever hear about Newton how about Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz ?

 

[proulxski]

Though there are things in life more absurd than believing in an all powerful God that created the universe in all it's beauty and complexity, and the first one that comes to mind is believing in Aliens

You're just asking to be flammed on that one, if you honestly believe there are no other life forms in this giant universe you are more ignorant than I thought.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

You're just asking to be flammed on that one, if you honestly believe there are no other life forms in this giant universe you are more ignorant than I thought.

I don't care whether guys who believe in ET flame me or not, I think the concept is absurd. I agree with Dr. William Dembski when he says that time and chance have become the scientific community's God. They are just as guilty as Christians who use God to explain things they are ignorant of when they use the "given enough time and chance..." argument. So absolutely no I do not believe there are aliens out there. I do not believe a Tornado can build a working Mercedes out of a junkyard once, much less more than once, no matter how many times and for how long you attempt it. So go ahead and flame me, but I stopped believing in aliens when I was in the 3rd grade.

 

[razoredge]

Actually I posted my good bye post at the same time as your's so I didn't see your's. However I stand by it, nobody else on here as been held to your APA style citations so therefore I owe you nothing. Trust me though, I was not scared off by your post, Noble Savage at least knows his material. Though there are things in life more absurd than believing in an all powerful God that created the universe in all it's beauty and complexity, and the first one that comes to mind is believing in Aliens

bah bah bah

nice duck but it seems the astroid still collided

proved my point, you are a disher unable to eat

I dont care what anybody believes in and respect Christians above most.... that is those that dont come around selectively picking others posts to shreds, selectively ignoring other statements, in an attempt to mock them, ignoring their right to their own personal ideals and placing yours on some high pony. You ripped on people for not answering questions and backing up their beliefs, even when they did...... yet make a post like the one above when its been fed back to you. I hope your poor example doesnt close the minds of others toward the rational views and positive aspects of Christianity.

 

[razoredge]

"aliens"... ha
beyond our atmosphere we are aliens
whos to say the supreme power of the "good books" does not have other playgrounds? Moses ? He'd a known right ? or was he too busy coveting other peoples land and murdering them in pursuit of his "promised land" to think about it ?
Gods presence is non existent in any form, we cant even find "God particles?"... so what is this suggesting ? another dimension ? a parallel plane ? an invisible looking glass ? a two way mirror? yet it is obsurd to think or question that their may be life elsewhere in this infinate universe ? ...... shameless !

 

[Sabin17]

This forum gets 2 cookies for even mentioning Dembski in a half-decent light.

 

[noble savage]

You only ever hear about Newton how about Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz ?

Liebnez invented the dy/dx, dy^2/d^2x Derivative notation. Way better than Newtons dot notation I think. Which I have only seen in physics anyway.

I don't believe in aliens, although the concept does fascinate me (As do most conspiracy theories. In an entertaining sense.) As of yet, I have not seen a shred of proof beyond what any hollywood special effects director could create. Until the day when someone pulls up in front of my house with a ship and bodies I will be skeptical. It's fun to think about.

Also, Kenneth I will get back to your post a little later today. I have some stuff to do this morning/afternoon. Including a date with my favorite pizza!

 

[razoredge]

So the idea that there may possibly be life elsewhere in the vastness of the universe amounts to the same as believing in flyling sausers ? How deep

 

[Yngvai X]

I think given the size of the universe and how many billions of galaxies there are and suns with planets like our own, I find it hard not to think that theres probably life somewhere else out there in the universe... however, if our planet has been around for however many billion years, and only within the last 140 or so have we even begun to advance technologically, I really don't think its possible for there to be an alien race that much more technologically advanced than ours ever reaching our solar system. I can't recall figures, but I remember reading the closest galaxy to harbor planets similar to earth is so far away it would be x amount (again, can't remember figures) of light years for them to get to us.

So aliens, while interesting to ponder, are ultimately not really worth much more than science fiction IMO.

 

[Kenneth R.]

Nah, I would simply attribute the natural suffering across the planet to the planet and its geological issues. Even assuming God made the thing as claimed in the bible a molten core and massive rock plates somethings going to give, which as we know is how the earth got a large percentage of its surface shape we see today.

As for starvation in certain areas, people just have to realize some areas of the globe are no longer very good for habitation and less children might just help... this is where the Witnesses crack me up, but I have friends that are Witnesses and I love em. This doesnt mean I want all the people from these "famished" places here. Bible says thou shalt not covet they neighbors house, so biblically they are not allowed...... [devious lol ]

Sure. That's your opinion and that's cool. However, noble savage asked how God could exist in a world with suffering. Thus the premises and conclusion, with evidence. You have to assume God exists, suffering exists, and reconcile them with all possibilities of logic. The argument on the last page does that. It isn't perfect. As a notorious classic philosophy problem, there are many good points to be heard from either side.

As for explaining my belief in God, I won't answer "I just have a feeling!" Just like with the Problem of Evil on the last page, I have rational, logical reasons for my belief, grounded in evidence. Since evidence is not proof, and I will of course say there is no absolute proof (If there were, convincing everyone I'm right would be a matter of showing that proof), I also require a measure of faith. This faith, while most people ascribe it to religion alone, also is what gets scientists from tested hypothesis to conclusion, since despite how many times I run an experiment, I can never know whether it will return the same results the next time.