SX and Paradise Lost = Satanic ??

[razoredge]

I say its wrong to fuck with someones life or family

any questions.... come see me.... give it a try

we'll take it from there

 

[razoredge]

Actually nowhere in the Bible does it describe God as a dude sitting on a cloude in a robe, but nice attempt at simplifying the arguement. So the only reason you don't kill someone is because of what other people might do to you as punishment (cops, parents)? That's kind of scary. What if a person doesn't feel bad when they kill people is it then magically no longer wrong? Ted Bundy actually described killing as a pleasurable act, was it right then for him to do it?

We already covered the sane and reasonable aspects, you are pages behind and far from any point.

 

[noble savage]

Excellent posts Zach! I couldn't have said it better myself.

What I don't understand is, almost all sane people have no intrinsic urge to see/preform acts of violence on other people. It's basic human nature. I don't believe in an invisible man in the sky, yet I have stayed awake at night because of the suffering people on Earth go through. It really makes me sad thinking about it. I am even questioning whether to become a vegetarian for the same reason.

Statler, your saying that it's as if people such as myself, Zach and others are degenerates for holding different views. I am really baffled why people such as yourself can really hold such an opinion. The fact is, your view does not hold.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Actually nowhere in the Bible does it describe God as a dude sitting on a cloude in a robe, but nice attempt at simplifying the arguement. So the only reason you don't kill someone is because of what other people might do to you as punishment (cops, parents)? That's kind of scary. What if a person doesn't feel bad when they kill people is it then magically no longer wrong? Ted Bundy actually described killing as a pleasurable act, was it right then for him to do it?

Yeah, i'm aware god is not described that way. I'm not retarded, it was a sarcastic comment

-No, the cops are not the only reason i don't kill someone. You just decided to completely ignore my point on people having empathy for one another as a valid point. I don't kill people because i see no reason to bring pain to the people surrounding someone, regardless of how i feel about the subject. Am I a violent person? No. My parents taught me otherwise.

Just because Ted Bundy killed some people doesn't destroy my moral values. He obviously had different feelings on the matter and he paid the consequences. By the law of our society, yes, he was wrong.

Now, since we're talking about how killing is wrong because God says it is so, please enlighten me why it was ok for christians to kill in the name of God during the cruisades? Why is it that spilling blood in the name of God is suddenly ok? I mean, these were moral people right?

 

[razoredge]

Noble...... your gonna start eating vegies and cause the beef & chicken farmers as well as fisherman to suffer ? Just pointing that out.... read my thing in the political thread about the timber industry and "save a tree" propaganda for similiar rationality.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Excellent posts Zach! I couldn't have said it better myself.

What I don't understand is, almost all sane people have no intrinsic urge to see/preform acts of violence on other people. It's basic human nature. I don't believe in an invisible man in the sky, yet I have stayed awake at night because of the suffering people on Earth go through. It really makes me sad thinking about it. I am even questioning whether to become a vegetarian for the same reason.

Statler, your saying that it's as if people such as myself, Zach and others are degenerates for holding different views. I am really baffled why people such as yourself can really hold such an opinion. The fact is, your view does not hold.

All I did was ask a simple question, a question that I know none of you can answer without using a standard greater than yourself, parents, cops, government, and society. Humans are programmed to feel killing is wrong, I agree with this, however why is that? How could someone who believes in no supernatural power greater than themselves believe in wrong or right? It's not possible, I am sorry, and I am still waiting for a decent answer to this question......waiting......

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Noble...... your gonna start eating vegies and cause the beef & chicken farmers as well as fisherman to suffer ? Just pointing that out.... read my thing in the political thread about the timber industry and "save a tree" propaganda for similiar rationality.

I think it was a statement more to prove a point about how non-christians can still feel empathy. SW seems to be out to demonize those who don't share his views, calling their logic flawed and so forth when he really doesn't have a leg to stand on. I am guessing that Noble is just illustrating how ridiculous this is.

 

[noble savage]

Noble...... your gonna start eating vegies and cause the beef & chicken farmers as well as fisherman to suffer ? Just pointing that out.... read my thing in the political thread about the timber industry and "save a tree" propaganda for similiar rationality.

No, I just don't like the idea of killing a cow so I can eat a sandwich. Seeing animals being led to mass slaughter makes me feel horrible. There has been no time in the past year that I haven't got those type of images in my head when eating meat products.

 

[DoomsdayZach]

All I did was ask a simple question, a question that I know none of you can answer without using a standard greater than yourself, parents, cops, government, and society. Humans are programmed to feel killing is wrong, I agree with this, however why is that? How could someone who believes in no supernatural power greater than themselves believe in wrong or right? It's not possible, I am sorry, and I am still waiting for a decent answer to this question......waiting......

It's been answered over and over. You refuse to recognize it. It's your problem, not ours.

Also, your "why" bullshit works when turned around. You just use your religion as a safety net. Killing is wrong. Why? Because God says so? That doesn't satisfy me (heh, playing your game now). Try again.

 

[razoredge]

Ted Bundy was a wack job.... end of story

forget the crusades just read the bloodbath that was I believe Moses as he "rightously" stormed across the desert seeking some "promised land" that was promised to him by........ some dude that spoke to him... from.... the clouds ?..... clear desert sky ? inside the rock ? who da fuck knows

 

[Statler Waldorf]

It's been answered over and over. You refuse to recognize it. It's your problem, not ours.

Also, your "why" bullshit works when turned around. You just use your religion as a safety net. Killing is wrong. Why? Because God says so? That doesn't satisfy me (heh, playing your game now). Try again.

Actually the question has not been answered once, much less over and over. I asked several questions as a rebutal, still no response. However because i am a stand-up guy I will answer your question though you have not granted me the same curtousy. Killing is wrong because man is God's favorite creation, he loves all men equally. Man was created in his own image unlike animals. When men kill eachother they are destroying what God loves, this in turn hurts God. This is why killing is wrong, you may think it's silly but I sure think it's a better reason than "my mommy tells me it's wrong"

 

[DoomsdayZach]

Ok ok ok, here's a question Statler. Using Ted Bundy as the example. Let me, for a minute, assume you're right. The fact that there's a diety who oversee's all of us as humans (We'll call him God) lets us know what's right and wrong, and as humans he embeds the inherent belief that one should not kill, steal, rape, etc. These are products put in your being by God. It's not something that parents teach their kids from an early age, it's not the product of a society who needs a structure and has put these laws in place. Seriously, let's assume it's God.

Ted Bundy killed people. Other folks have killed people quite intentionally with no feelings of remorse, and as you pointed out some even get an enjoyment out of it. So, did God just decide "you know, fuck those guys. I'm not going to deal with them, the're going to be serial killers and rapists." I mean, i guess i don't understand how this works... if God really instills these laws within people, then despite free will, people should behave fairly reasonably unless there is a great emotional sense of being wronged. There's no way that something that is "wrong" or "evil" under God's law would be allowed to happen.

 

[razoredge]

No, I just don't like the idea of killing a cow so I can eat a sandwich.

understood, thats why I buy my meat at a store, still doesnt change the fact that we are decendents of meat eating hunters. Bovin has been breed and hybridized over the centuries to supply many of our dietary needs and untill the last 100 years... allowed us to spend more of our time growing crops to expand our diet and less time "out in the hunt".

crude but it is a reality of being a carnivorous mammal, its also a natural life cycle

 

[noble savage]

Statler, I should have asked this first to gauge what I was dealing with:

What are your views on evolution?

 

[DoomsdayZach]

All I did was ask a simple question, a question that I know none of you can answer without using a standard greater than yourself, parents, cops, government, and society. Humans are programmed to feel killing is wrong, I agree with this, however why is that? How could someone who believes in no supernatural power greater than themselves believe in wrong or right? It's not possible, I am sorry, and I am still waiting for a decent answer to this question......waiting......

Actually the question has not been answered once, much less over and over. I asked several questions as a rebutal, still no response. However because i am a stand-up guy I will answer your question though you have not granted me the same curtousy. Killing is wrong because man is God's favorite creation, he loves all men equally. Man was created in his own image unlike animals. When men kill eachother they are destroying what God loves, this in turn hurts God. This is why killing is wrong, you may think it's silly but I sure think it's a better reason than "my mommy tells me it's wrong"

Once again, get off your high horse and stop preaching to me. Your question HAS been answered. Again, you are too much of an arrogant prick to recognize it as an answer. It is VERY EASY to have a concept of right and wrong without believing in a supernatural power. I would know. You refuse to accept that, and it is NOT my problem that you can't wrap your head around that.

Ken, Dan, I am very sorry to be ragging on your religion so much. I'm sure both of you are just as disgusted with this clown as I am. I'm leaving this conversation, not because i'm "afraid" of not being able to answer. I feel like i have backed my points very well and clearly, I just don't feel the need to argue with a fucking brick wall.

And a big fuck you to Statler... you should know better than my agnostic ass that faith is a personal thing. It is supposed to be a personal relationship with God. And once again, fuck you for preaching to me.

 

[noble savage]

understood, thats why I buy my meat at a store, still doesnt change the fact that we are decendents of meat eating hunters. Bovin has been breed and hybridized over the centuries to supply many of our dietary needs and untill the last 100 years... allowed us to spend more of our time growing crops to expand our diet and less time "out in the hunt".

crude but it is a reality of being a carnivorous mammal, its also a natural life cycle

Yeah, the human brain evolved because of a few certain chemicals only found in meat. There is no doubt meat is an important (well, was important. There are vitamins/supplements available now.) part of our diet. I have just become strange over the past year.

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Ok ok ok, here's a question Statler. Using Ted Bundy as the example. Let me, for a minute, assume you're right. The fact that there's a diety who oversee's all of us as humans (We'll call him God) lets us know what's right and wrong, and as humans he embeds the inherent belief that one should not kill, steal, rape, etc. These are products put in your being by God. It's not something that parents teach their kids from an early age, it's not the product of a society who needs a structure and has put these laws in place. Seriously, let's assume it's God.

Ted Bundy killed people. Other folks have killed people quite intentionally with no feelings of remorse, and as you pointed out some even get an enjoyment out of it. So, did God just decide "you know, fuck those guys. I'm not going to deal with them, the're going to be serial killers and rapists." I mean, i guess i don't understand how this works... if God really instills these laws within people, then despite free will, people should behave fairly reasonably unless there is a great emotional sense of being wronged. There's no way that something that is "wrong" or "evil" under God's law would be allowed to happen.

Finally, a decent response, I appreciate it man. The crux of my argument is not that God is the reason we believe murder is wrong, rather God is the reason we can classify things as right and wrong. I refuse to believe the only reason murder is wrong is becaue my mom or government tells me so. As for the Bundy question, I believe Ted originally had these feelings of right and wrong but through years of deviant behavior these feelings were withered away, so not God's fault. This is where man's free will comes into the equation. Though it is important to realize that Ted was far from insane, as is the case with most serial killers.

 

[razoredge]

Actually the question has not been answered once, much less over and over. I asked several questions as a rebutal, still no response. However because i am a stand-up guy I will answer your question though you have not granted me the same curtousy. Killing is wrong because man is God's favorite creation, he loves all men equally. Man was created in his own image unlike animals. When men kill eachother they are destroying what God loves, this in turn hurts God. This is why killing is wrong, you may think it's silly but I sure think it's a better reason than "my mommy tells me it's wrong"

What question ?

What question or points brought about stories in the bible that just threw this paragraph of yours to hyprocracy are you ignoring ?

Its simple, killing someone for pleasure is a phsyciological mutation not the norm.... and if it was not for laws, more people would be going down for their dealings with fellow man.

Amusingly enough it seems that vast majority or those that seem fit with the idea of killing for pleasure live around the "promised land"

 

[Statler Waldorf]

Once again, get off your high horse and stop preaching to me. Your question HAS been answered. Again, you are too much of an arrogant prick to recognize it as an answer. It is VERY EASY to have a concept of right and wrong without believing in a supernatural power. I would know. You refuse to accept that, and it is NOT my problem that you can't wrap your head around that.

Ken, Dan, I am very sorry to be ragging on your religion so much. I'm sure both of you are just as disgusted with this clown as I am. I'm leaving this conversation, not because i'm "afraid" of not being able to answer. I feel like i have backed my points very well and clearly, I just don't feel the need to argue with a fucking brick wall.

And a big fuck you to Statler... you should know better than my agnostic ass that faith is a personal thing. It is supposed to be a personal relationship with God. And once again, fuck you for preaching to me.

Yes you really did make your argument It's so relieving to know the only reason you aren't out killing people is becaue it makes you feel yucky inside and your mommy tells you not to, good boy.

 

[HackerX]

I personally respect the opinion of a theist on this subject more than an agnostic for this reason, because at least a theist is actively saying "I have weighed the evidence and come to a conclusion about this."

To which I'd reply:
I've weighed the evidence and realised that you, nor anybody else, haven't presented me with anywhere near enough evidence to make any sort of decision. I can only suggest you take another look at everything and question how you can come to any conclusion.

I've known catholic priests who understand this concept far better than most atheists.