no need for it.. it's training wheels... ride with the big boys, who can remember C1 is a kick. 
The 'I love ProTools' thread
- Thread starter Ermz
- Start date
digitaldeath
Member
I disagree James. Pro-Tools has many features that we all love, a lot of which reduce the "guess" work often involved. MIDI Drum Maps cannot be ignored for this very reason. It's a bit embarrassing in this day and age for a DAW to be missing said feature, regardless if "the big boys" don't need it.
PT8 does have it, doesn't it?... and i still don't need it.. and it's "a bit embarrassing" to need one. I don't need training wheels on my 10-speed, and I don't need a particular GUI layout to program drums. you should be embarrassed that you do.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
no need for it.. it's training wheels... ride with the big boys, who can remember C1 is a kick.
No, it's more like the difference between a fixed-seat and a geared bike, which makes climbing hills a hell of a lot easier.
If your workflow doesn't depend on you programming drums, and you don't do it often, I can see why you'd be fine with the standard piano-roll style. I'm fine using the piano roll, but that doesn't mean that a Cubase or DP style drum map is any less effective than it otherwise would be, or at all 'elementary' or 'assisted' like you've made it out to be.
The fact is that it's easier and far more intuitive to have your drums listed on the left (not just note values) and be able to arrange them however you want, not to mention the fact that you can click/drag for a continuous bit of 8th/16th/whatever notes, and that having diamonds land exactly on the grid makes way more sense for a percussion based instrument than bars with note durations.
Gotta agree with Jeff. Didn't realize PT was still lacking in that area - seems a bit silly. I do all my programming in Cubase.
i don't agree at all
1. i do program a lot of drums
2. when you use the drum editor you are locked 100% to the grid, and have to go to the regular editor to add back any human variation anyway... which is why everyone cries about programmed drums sounding mechanical even when there's good multi-sample set with many velocities used.
what you are all telling me is that YOU all don't program drums enough, or seriously enough, to need anything more than the drum editor window. i used to use the DP editor all the time... but grew out of it after less than 2 years, and started programming exclusively in the regular editor, despite that i was using DP and had it available to me with a single click.
you guys act like you're telling me about something new, lol... i've been there and done that. you do grow out of them, believe it... [shrug]or don't.[/shrug]
1. i do program a lot of drums
2. when you use the drum editor you are locked 100% to the grid, and have to go to the regular editor to add back any human variation anyway... which is why everyone cries about programmed drums sounding mechanical even when there's good multi-sample set with many velocities used.
what you are all telling me is that YOU all don't program drums enough, or seriously enough, to need anything more than the drum editor window. i used to use the DP editor all the time... but grew out of it after less than 2 years, and started programming exclusively in the regular editor, despite that i was using DP and had it available to me with a single click.
you guys act like you're telling me about something new, lol... i've been there and done that. you do grow out of them, believe it... [shrug]or don't.[/shrug]
AdamWathan
Member
Yeah, drum maps are not embarrassing in any way... Maybe James we should take all the track names off the channel strips in the mixer window too? Just mix from memory, you should know that the 14th track from the left is RhyGtr R 421 and that the 19th track from the right is Tom3Trig, having the track names displayed is embarrassing and only needed by amateurs... Ride with the "big boys" right...?
oh shut the fuck up asshole.... it was light-hearted debate and pissing about until you popped up with this shit. i wasn't even half serious, and was speaking only for myself regarding my own preferences, having used dedicated drum editors in the past.... your attempt to make me look like a dick by parroting back my words in a nasty, sarcastic way.. and even putting your own in my mouth, just show what an insecure little douche you are.
go ahead and report this post, i don't give two shits, i'm sick of ass-hats like you that can't engage in debate, or recognize that they aren't "arguments".... or for that matter have any concept that someone like me might have more experience than you and thus have something worth listening to, even if you don't follow it.
go ahead and report this post, i don't give two shits, i'm sick of ass-hats like you that can't engage in debate, or recognize that they aren't "arguments".... or for that matter have any concept that someone like me might have more experience than you and thus have something worth listening to, even if you don't follow it.
AdamWathan
Member
Maybe you need to revisit the MIDI drum editing in other software because even in Reaper you can use the drum mode and still place hits anywhere you want without being confined to the grid...
For you to say ProTools has leaped beyond the rest of the pack in MIDI editing when 99% of other DAWs still offer more MIDI editing functionality is kind of strange. You should be able to rename any note, rearrange any notes, etc. to organize your drum editing workflow and make things make more sense visually and let you work more efficiently. Sure it's not that hard to program drums in MIDI in PT, not really hard at all in fact, but it is definitely easier in almost every other DAW. Just because it's easier doesn't make me a novice n00b. DAWs are supposed to be about efficiency and speeding up workflow in anyway possible in order to facilitate creativity...
my POINT... if you had any inclination to pay any attention to it, rather than to your own agenda of painting me as a windbag or elitist asshole or whatever you had in mind, is that anyone... ANYONE... not just professionals or whatever smarmy way you took my words... but that anyone that's programmed drums for years knows the GM and Extended GM midi drum mapping like the back of their hands, and thus has ZERO need for the names to be listed.
if you do need them listed, then my inference was that you just don't know your drum mappings well enough yet.. and that you eventually will learn them, if you stick at this long enough. once you've done that, you simply open the drum maps less and less often until you've phased them out altogether... and not once did i infer that anyone needed to make a change... only that PT doesn't NEED to have a drum map editor, to be efficient.
when i said "ride with the big boys" i meant as in grown up kids that don't need training wheels. which could be anyone.... and it was clearly facetious... i even put a "", for Xst's effin' sake.
suck it.
if you do need them listed, then my inference was that you just don't know your drum mappings well enough yet.. and that you eventually will learn them, if you stick at this long enough. once you've done that, you simply open the drum maps less and less often until you've phased them out altogether... and not once did i infer that anyone needed to make a change... only that PT doesn't NEED to have a drum map editor, to be efficient.
when i said "ride with the big boys" i meant as in grown up kids that don't need training wheels. which could be anyone.... and it was clearly facetious... i even put a "
", for Xst's effin' sake.suck it.
AdamWathan
Member
Dude what is your deal? You come back to this thread and basically say that anyone who uses drum maps is an idiot and should be embarrassed that they can't work just as fast in the piano roll and I try and justify why I disagree by giving a comparable example that might make you reconsider your decision to patronize everyone who relies on piano roll customizability then give me shit for it and absolutely freak out on me? I guarantee I was being even less serious than you in my post but such is the nature of the internet I suppose.
Who are you quoting when you say "arguments"? As far as I know I was participating in a debate, just like you, and was less insulting towards you than you were to anyone on this forum who uses drum maps.
If you think that a standard piano roll gives you more control when programming drums than a drum style editing window like in Cubase or Reaper then I am going to continue to disagree, regardless of how much more experience you have than me. I love Pro Tools more than any other DAW on the planet but I am not afraid to admit there are some cool features in other DAWs it could serve to borrow to improve work flow in some areas.
Re-fucking-lax, it's the internet.
re-read my posts.. and pay attention this time... i had every sign in them that i was being facetious. you chose not to see them. your problem, not mine.
and FTR, i just got done programming... in one work day... an entire 10 song album of drums for pre-pro on an album i have coming up in January.. in the piano roll editor... fills and all... how's that for efficiency? you do not need the drum map editor, you want it, and that's fair enough... but don't insinuate to me that i'm inefficient compared to anyone using such an editor.. pffff.
relax your damned self.
and FTR, i just got done programming... in one work day... an entire 10 song album of drums for pre-pro on an album i have coming up in January.. in the piano roll editor... fills and all... how's that for efficiency? you do not need the drum map editor, you want it, and that's fair enough... but don't insinuate to me that i'm inefficient compared to anyone using such an editor.. pffff
.relax your damned self.
JeffTD
Senhor Testiculo
Holy shit - need Xanax much?. What the fuck. Not even worth continuing this conversation, regardless of how light-hearted it originally was.
AdamWathan
Member
sorry boys... didn't mean to hurt your little feelings... but yeah... typing curse words in a forum means you're screaming and pounding your fists in real life.
i respond to passive-aggressive behavior with active-aggressive behavior.... even if i'm really just sitting here enjoying some hot tea and a piece of homemade pumpkin pie... you choose the tone of voice you read words in a forum with, unless the author of those words actually describes his demeanor. i'm annoyed, nothing more... and last time i checked they didn't prescribe Xanax for annoyance.
i respond to passive-aggressive behavior with active-aggressive behavior.... even if i'm really just sitting here enjoying some hot tea and a piece of homemade pumpkin pie... you choose the tone of voice you read words in a forum with, unless the author of those words actually describes his demeanor. i'm annoyed, nothing more... and last time i checked they didn't prescribe Xanax for annoyance.
AdamWathan
Member
Well calling me an "asshole", "insecure little douche" and "ass-hat" without me even attacking you first just because I disagreed with you is kind of lame dude.
yes you did... you passive-aggressively, and quite sarcastically, attacked me... full stop... thus i replied with active-aggression and a complete lack of sarcasm.
>>"Maybe James we should take all the track names off the channel strips in the mixer window too? Just mix from memory, you should know that the 14th track from the left is RhyGtr R 421 and that the 19th track from the right is Tom3Trig, having the track names displayed is embarrassing and only needed by amateurs... Ride with the "big boys" right...?"<<
you may, or may not, have taken note that i didn't say anything aggressive to other posters who just stated their disagreement and stated why, i just posted back in the same vein. you however got downright smarmy and sarcastic.... but even still, had you made one indication that you weren't being serious... even a simple "", i would have simply posted back in kind.... but no, you appointed yourself "hero of the thread" and decided to "tear James down offa his high horse"... and completely misread the tone and tenor of the conversation in the process.
yep, "ass-hat" about sums it up.
>>"Maybe James we should take all the track names off the channel strips in the mixer window too? Just mix from memory, you should know that the 14th track from the left is RhyGtr R 421 and that the 19th track from the right is Tom3Trig, having the track names displayed is embarrassing and only needed by amateurs... Ride with the "big boys" right...?"<<
you may, or may not, have taken note that i didn't say anything aggressive to other posters who just stated their disagreement and stated why, i just posted back in the same vein. you however got downright smarmy and sarcastic.... but even still, had you made one indication that you weren't being serious... even a simple "
", i would have simply posted back in kind.... but no, you appointed yourself "hero of the thread" and decided to "tear James down offa his high horse"... and completely misread the tone and tenor of the conversation in the process.yep, "ass-hat" about sums it up.
digitaldeath
Member
Jeez, way to get off topic guys.
Fact is: Pro-Tools still has a bit of catching up in the MIDI department compared to the competition.
Fact is: Pro-Tools still has a bit of catching up in the MIDI department compared to the competition.
