The Official Good Television Thread

[Einherjar86]

What does the cabin scene matter? Maybe he's insane, maybe he isn't; all that matters is the message he receives - that is, what his relationship to Patti means to him.

Kevin and his daughter both definitely experience some form of healing; they hold hands at the end, and Kevin befriends the now-tamed dog. Those are symbolic images. The son dumped the kid, but this provided the healing impetus for Nora. It doesn't matter what the Remnant intended, only what happened; and what happened is that several central characters experienced some form of healing.

Yes, I'm happy with the show. I think all you need is one episode to show "partial healing." Healing isn't the point of the series, only a suggested conclusion; and I think it's a strong one.

The healing doesn't need to be some kind of absolute intention of the Remnant. All I'm saying is that it is a likely effect of what happened. Beneath everything, there remains the fact that something horrifying and mystifying happened, and it makes no sense and has no purpose. The show, by its very presentation as a narrative, necessarily constructs some kind of meaning around the event, whatever that meaning might be.

 

[rms]

The cabin scenario was an entire episode, I would assume it had a lot of meaning to the series creators/writers. I don't even really remember a message there, other than Patti's intent to make herself a martyr or something to that affect, but maybe i'm forgetting something.

It is weird that we consider healing 3 people who basically weren't effected at all by the 'event' other than Kevin losing that hot latina chick mid-bang or something. Feels like we are ignoring a large portion of the show and just focusing on one family, and doesn't really seem right. Wayne's storyline seemed pretty important to the show, and that all went to nothing in the last 2 episodes. What does the GR do now? Are they happy, satisfied? Are they going for it again, but a more traumatic event? Without jumping to conclusions, its hard to say that this show really has any focus, personally.

I did forget the dog ran up to Kevin at the end and obviously wasn't going crazy so that symbolizes the obvious change post-apocalypse part 2 on the town.

Are you still suggesting that the point of the show is to abolish the idea of family, and then bring it all back together? I think that was what you were arguing page or two ago?

I just don't see the GR's purpose as to help the effected in the effected mind's, more that they are trying to push their agenda on them. Now they might have miscalculated their intention and you might be right in that it helps everyone, but it seems like you're suggesting that the GR were trying to do this all along and i'm not sure I agree with that.

 

[no country for old wainds]

 

[Einherjar86]

The cabin scenario was an entire episode, I would assume it had a lot of meaning to the series creators/writers. I don't even really remember a message there, other than Patti's intent to make herself a martyr or something to that affect, but maybe i'm forgetting something.

It is weird that we consider healing 3 people who basically weren't effected at all by the 'event' other than Kevin losing that hot latina chick mid-bang or something. Feels like we are ignoring a large portion of the show and just focusing on one family, and doesn't really seem right. Wayne's storyline seemed pretty important to the show, and that all went to nothing in the last 2 episodes. What does the GR do now? Are they happy, satisfied? Are they going for it again, but a more traumatic event? Without jumping to conclusions, its hard to say that this show really has any focus, personally.

I did forget the dog ran up to Kevin at the end and obviously wasn't going crazy so that symbolizes the obvious change post-apocalypse part 2 on the town.

Are you still suggesting that the point of the show is to abolish the idea of family, and then bring it all back together? I think that was what you were arguing page or two ago?

I just don't see the GR's purpose as to help the effected in the effected mind's, more that they are trying to push their agenda on them. Now they might have miscalculated their intention and you might be right in that it helps everyone, but it seems like you're suggesting that the GR were trying to do this all along and i'm not sure I agree with that.

The show toggles a line between "meaningful" and "meaningless," which is why Wayne's story goes nowhere. Remember how he says he thinks he may be a fraud? That's terror that all the meaning he imposed on his own life was a fantasy. And yet, also remember that he ends his life by granting Kevin a wish that we never hear spoken; we can read the conclusion of the show as a fulfillment of that wish (he gets his daughter back, and presumably Nora - a family), or we can choose not to. Nothing is set in stone, but the evidence is there.

I also don't think healing needs to be the Remnant's ultimate purpose; as I said at the end of my last post, it doesn't matter if it wasn't intentional. All that matters is that we can read it as an effect, and I'm much more inclined to view Patti as a gauge of their intentions rather than Liv Tyler's character.

I was arguing that the show registers the question of family, not that it was arguing for the dissolution of family. It's far too ambiguous and oscillating to say affirmatively that it goes in only one direction. It's much more helpful and useful to talk about the show registers the social institution of the family, and how the show complicates the typical ideological concept of family.

 

[Jimmy... Dead.]

Their presence means something, whereas the original disappearance doesn't mean anything.

The show toggles a line between "meaningful" and "meaningless," which is why Wayne's story goes nowhere. Remember how he says he thinks he may be a fraud? That's terror that all the meaning he imposed on his own life was a fantasy.

This is exactly how I view the show. A bunch of characters running around trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to give meaning to the meaningless. What's really interesting is how they're shown before the incident doing the same thing in a different way. I also think the Remnant wasn't trying to remind them of what they lost after the disappearance but before, to remind them of what they had when they took their life and loved ones for granted. Not only the meaninglessness they let encompass their being but the escapism.

and there is so much more you can go into detail. It's great. I really enjoyed the show. And maybe I'm going too far here but the first 5 episodes I felt nothing, yet I kept watching and by the end I was like OHHH, that's how they feel ... idk but it struck a chord with me.

 

[rms]

That Deadwood picture is obnoxious for my tiny resolution

The thing I meant more with Wayne was his idea of spreading his seed to any asian woman around the country, apparently. I just took that last scene as a man doubting himself and I do assume that Kevin's wish was for a (new?) family and that appears to have been fulfilled. But did Wayne have Kevin's son escort that woman and her baby just to have Kevin become the step father to it later? Seems really out there if that's true.

Well I definitely agree that Patti is a better representative than Liv Tyler, but we don't get Patti at all in that last episode other than her haunting of Kevin. Unless I forgot something, she doesn't really say much about the doll-planting event. I get the effect aspect, but what does the GR do now? Are they happy with what they achieved? Are they going to rebuild their 'cult' and do an even more extravagant event? The show doesn't seem to lead at all except in Kevin's life/perspective

I get the ideological aspect of questioning family, but I feel like when you do that you are going to argue against it, no? Or support it even stronger? I feel like the show before this episode was going in that direction, that being 'against' family, but with how it ended it seems to promote it.

 

[rms]

This is exactly how I view the show. A bunch of characters running around trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, trying to give meaning to the meaningless.

Do you find it interesting that the show focuses on people who were effected the least? Except for Nora, Kevin and his family had no one who disappeared. Nothing changed for them, except Laurie's perspective, Kevin's new police problems and the son's journey to save Wayne's master plan or whatever it is.

What's really interesting is how they're shown before the incident doing the same thing in a different way. I also think the Remnant wasn't trying to remind them of what they lost after the disappearance but before, to remind them of what they had when they took their life and loved ones for granted. Not only the meaninglessness they let encompass their being but the escapism.

I didn't expect anything different, this show isn't some sort of fantastical approach to family life or anything like that. Nora was unhappy with her family, Kevin too and who knows how anyone in the GR felt before the event.

The GR, to me, makes it seem like they just want people to feel pain/remorse/guilt whatever for those who are gone, who the GR thinks are forgotten. I don't think the aspect of 'granted' is fair to these people, as most people who are portrayed aren't happy. I can back that up with the perspective of the minister, who just tries to bash the names of those who are being praised/remembered as good people before the event.

Meaningless is fine, if this was a 10 episode mini series I probably wouldn't be wondering at all. But, from what i've read, this show is going for the long haul and it doesn't seem to point anywhere.

 

[Einherjar86]

The thing I meant more with Wayne was his idea of spreading his seed to any asian woman around the country, apparently. I just took that last scene as a man doubting himself and I do assume that Kevin's wish was for a (new?) family and that appears to have been fulfilled. But did Wayne have Kevin's son escort that woman and her baby just to have Kevin become the step father to it later? Seems really out there if that's true.

It doesn't matter whether he intended it or not. That's the point: people make meaning out of remarkable (or unremarkable) circumstances. The show doesn't care about giving us the answers; it registers the endless dialectic by which people try and craft meaning out of their lives, even in the face of hopelessly meaningless circumstances.

Well I definitely agree that Patti is a better representative than Liv Tyler, but we don't get Patti at all in that last episode other than her haunting of Kevin. Unless I forgot something, she doesn't really say much about the doll-planting event. I get the effect aspect, but what does the GR do now? Are they happy with what they achieved? Are they going to rebuild their 'cult' and do an even more extravagant event? The show doesn't seem to lead at all except in Kevin's life/perspective

I get the ideological aspect of questioning family, but I feel like when you do that you are going to argue against it, no? Or support it even stronger? I feel like the show before this episode was going in that direction, that being 'against' family, but with how it ended it seems to promote it.

Patti doesn't say anything about the event, but we know she had a hand in planning it (maybe was even its original creator). As far as what comes after, again: I simply don't see why that's important.

I don't think the show promotes or rejects family; I think it has crafted a narrative that forces its audience to consider the institution itself. It doesn't have to lean one way or another. Questioning doesn't mean arguing against it; it means forcing its audience to consider the essentiality of what we call "family."

Do you find it interesting that the show focuses on people who were effected the least? Except for Nora, Kevin and his family had no one who disappeared. Nothing changed for them, except Laurie's perspective, Kevin's new police problems and the son's journey to save Wayne's master plan or whatever it is.

Kevin and his family did lose someone. Did you miss that?

 

[rms]

It doesn't matter whether he intended it or not. That's the point: people make meaning out of remarkable (or unremarkable) circumstances. The show doesn't care about giving us the answers; it registers the endless dialectic by which people try and craft meaning out of their lives, even in the face of hopelessly meaningless circumstances.

But it does give answers/resolutions to some aspects. We wondered all season what the GR were planning and what those plastic bags were. We wondered about the dogs, we wondered about the guy who only seems to talk to Kevin and we wondered where Wayne was going. We got some answers and didn't get others, maybe that's why i'm having problems. I can see your point about attached meanings to nothing and that is definitely an aspect of the show, but can the show run just on that premise? It's definitely established, but I guess personally I am looking for more.

Patti doesn't say anything about the event, but we know she had a hand in planning it (maybe was even its original creator). As far as what comes after, again: I simply don't see why that's important.

I guess we are just seeing it in two different ways, I am pretty curious as to the little details that are the GR and you like the event and its side effect aspects.

I don't think the show promotes or rejects family; I think it has crafted a narrative that forces its audience to consider the institution itself. It doesn't have to lean one way or another. Questioning doesn't mean arguing against it; it means forcing its audience to consider the essentiality of what we call "family."

You really don't think the show was against family until the last episode? I mean everything fell/falling apart in that town, and then it ends with a glimmer of hope in the Kevin family. It brings up the discussion no doubt, but the show is not objective to it, imo.

Kevin and his family did lose someone. Did you miss that?

He did? I think his father went crazy right before, wife went to GR, daughter hates him and son and doing his adventure(s), who am I forgetting? His mom?

 

[Einherjar86]

Laurie was pregnant. Their baby literally disappeared from her womb.

And I don't think the show was ever "against" family. I think the dynamics of the narrative are way to complex and varied for us to be able to say that.

 

[rms]

Laurie was pregnant. Their baby literally disappeared from her womb.

Guess I forgot that part, I don't remember Kevin ever knowing/mentioning it though, but might have forgot that too. Did the kids know as well? If not for all 3, can that be considered the same as a situation like Nora's?

 

[Matt]

Ray Donovan has been fantastic

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

... lol i'm not surprised, it's catered to the likes of you. That show is a steaming pile of crap, and no matter how showtime dresses it up, it still doesn't change the fact that it's nothing more than pure shit, near bottom of the barrel TV.

 

[Matt]

That really hurts my feelings. Is there a reason why you don't like it, or are you just being a colossal douchebag as usual?

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Outside of Schriebers acting(solid, as usual), there's really nothing to like. Eddie Marsan's doing a pretty good job also, but that's about it.

 

[Carpe Mortem]

Whether it is 'good television' or not is pretty highly debatable, but I've always had a major soft spot for How I Met Your Mother, used to watch it religiously with a few friends and a few beers. They finally put the last season on Netflix, just finished it up... and fucking fuck that show.

What a terrible fucking ending, total bullshit. I found it incredibly offensive on so many levels. It was just a huge middle finger to alternative lifestyles and ways of thinking, when I totally had hope that it would continue being respectful. Fuck that show dude. I'd have been happier if Ted just died. I always hoped he'd just die. And the shit with him and Robin in the end totally pissed me off.

Probably the most disappointing finale of any show I've ever enjoyed, worse than Weeds. And I really hated that last episode, a lot.

 

[unknown]

Thoughts on the casting for season 2 of True Detective? Vince Vaughn and Colin Farrell...

 

[Einherjar86]

Meh, whatever. Vince Vaughn can do dramatic, and I'm okay with Colin Farrell. To be honest, I would have probably balked over hearing about the cast for the first season if I had already been familiar with the show.

 

[Zephyrus]

Going to watch the season premiere of Marvel's Agents of SHIELD tonight. It's a pretty entertaining series, certainly for one who's a fan of Firefly and The Avengers (though I hardly can say I worship Whedon).

 

[rms]

Thoughts on the casting for season 2 of True Detective? Vince Vaughn and Colin Farrell...

This has sparked the dumbest outrage I've seen in awhile.