rms
Active Member
That white guilt making you think that it was an Oscar worthy film? Jesus Christ
The Official Movie Thread
- Thread starter Manic Ferocity
- Start date
Einherjar86
Active Member
It was just a better movie--such a better movie, it's not even funny.
The narrative was immeasurably more appealing. Joker was, by and large, quite boring--and it relied heavily on Phoenix's acting, which, although fine, did nothing to raise the film above average. It was an unimpressive and boring film, whereas Us was an entertaining and funny film. It's not even a question of white guilt. But thanks for your dimestore diagnosis.
Also, I didn't say that either film was Oscar-worthy. Think through the logic.
The narrative was immeasurably more appealing. Joker was, by and large, quite boring--and it relied heavily on Phoenix's acting, which, although fine, did nothing to raise the film above average. It was an unimpressive and boring film, whereas Us was an entertaining and funny film. It's not even a question of white guilt. But thanks for your dimestore diagnosis.
Also, I didn't say that either film was Oscar-worthy. Think through the logic.
challenge_everything
Active Member
I didn't say that I didn't get what Tarantino was trying to achieve. I just don't think it gelled at all. There were the kernels of a good film behind Di Caprio's reinvention as a 'serious' actor, but muddled in with some indulgent, idealised (and ultimately uninteresting) iconography of 60s Hollywood, random bits of 'tough guy cool' (the Bruce Lee scene), #metoo apologism, and meanwhile the Manson hippies are given token and cartoonish bad guy treatment. Perhaps I haven't use the phrase 'fanboy' correctly because you're right, Tarantino only makes movies for himself and his fans, but what I mean is that whereas his films used to be unique beasts, now this alternative reality, wish fulfilment type approach is becoming formulaic and self-parodying, from Inglorious Basterds to Django to this. It's now a case of keeping fans happy by giving them what they already like and are comfortable with and that's what I mean by fanboyism.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
No offense but these criticisms feel kind of hollow to me. Keeping fans happy? He was always doing that. Formulaic? His films are basically collages of his influences, his formula has been that for years at this point. Hell, this film almost follows the same exact trajectory as From Dusk till Dawn.
I'm the last person to go out of his way to defend Tarantino, and by no means am I saying this film was amazing and without issues. Like I said, I thought it was pretty boring at times, and one major complaint I have is that it does a damn near nonexistent job of letting the viewer know that the film is affected by perspective of the main characters, hence the utterly retarded depiction of Bruce Lee, it's not meant to be accurate, it's meant to reflect the ego of Brad Pitt's character and how he remembers things in his past happening.
That said, Tarantino has always relied on stylism and this is no exception. I really don't view his filmography as that unique in the first place, even though I agree he used to make much better films. I agree that the depiction of the Manson Family members were pretty generic, but as fodder for the finale's massacre it's something I can live with.
Also you kind of implied you didn't get what his point was when you said the film's ending seemed to have nothing to do with the rest of the film, but fair enough...
I'm the last person to go out of his way to defend Tarantino, and by no means am I saying this film was amazing and without issues. Like I said, I thought it was pretty boring at times, and one major complaint I have is that it does a damn near nonexistent job of letting the viewer know that the film is affected by perspective of the main characters, hence the utterly retarded depiction of Bruce Lee, it's not meant to be accurate, it's meant to reflect the ego of Brad Pitt's character and how he remembers things in his past happening.
That said, Tarantino has always relied on stylism and this is no exception. I really don't view his filmography as that unique in the first place, even though I agree he used to make much better films. I agree that the depiction of the Manson Family members were pretty generic, but as fodder for the finale's massacre it's something I can live with.
Also you kind of implied you didn't get what his point was when you said the film's ending seemed to have nothing to do with the rest of the film, but fair enough...
Vegard Pompey
ALLY TO GOOD, NIGHTMARE TO YOU
Joker grossed more than a third of what the new Avengers film did on less than a fifth of its budget, with no action scenes, no superhero and an R-rating. That's pretty huge and I bet there are studio execs thinking hard on how to replicate that kind of success.
TechnicalBarbarity
Poser Disposer
i saw the Joker againa and my opinion on the film went up from above average to pretty damn solid.
EDIT: this youtube comment nailed it ... "You know what's ironic is how at the beginning of the movie he is forcing himself to smile, only to laugh freely at the end after finally letting go."
The way how he was just so miserable in the beginning to the killer ending where he seems to be so relaxed and comfortable with what he's become, or more correctly "blossomed" into was just fantastic.
EDIT: this youtube comment nailed it ... "You know what's ironic is how at the beginning of the movie he is forcing himself to smile, only to laugh freely at the end after finally letting go."
challenge_everything
Active Member
This seems harsh. I think you have to work very, very hard to argue From Dusk til Dawn, Reservoir Dogs, Pulp Fiction and Inglorious Basterds were anything other than unique films, both in terms of film generally and vis-a-vis each other. However the revision of tragic history into triumphant heroism has underpinned 3 of his last 4 films now.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Fair last point, and one of the gimmicks I wish he'd let up on at this point.
rms
Active Member
.
Saying fuck Oscars this movie got nominated and then saying another movie was better kinda makes it obvious that you're suggesting Us was more worthy and worthy l. Whatever though
Us was so bad, so boring, so poorly executed, you're probably the first person to mention that movie since release!
Anom@nder Rake
lives on the internet
quick, shit reviews of 2019 films i've recently watched:
Joker - The King of Comedy remake with some murder thrown in
The Irishman - way too long. first 2/3 is a typical Scorsese biopic.final third was interesting but not worth sitting through the first 2 hours. got the book for xmas and read it. it's a quicker read than a film viewing experience
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - pointless film. i'd rather listen to a podcast of Tarantino talking about spaghetti westerns than sit through this crap. the fake film posters were pretty cool though
Midsommar - too long. it was an ambitious idea to make a horror film during daylight. the set is incredible but the script is lacking
Avengers: Endgame - i can't fathom how someone could sit through 20+ of these films to get to this one and then be like "yea, that was worth it"
Joker - The King of Comedy remake with some murder thrown in
The Irishman - way too long. first 2/3 is a typical Scorsese biopic.final third was interesting but not worth sitting through the first 2 hours. got the book for xmas and read it. it's a quicker read than a film viewing experience
Once Upon a Time in Hollywood - pointless film. i'd rather listen to a podcast of Tarantino talking about spaghetti westerns than sit through this crap. the fake film posters were pretty cool though
Midsommar - too long. it was an ambitious idea to make a horror film during daylight. the set is incredible but the script is lacking
Avengers: Endgame - i can't fathom how someone could sit through 20+ of these films to get to this one and then be like "yea, that was worth it"
challenge_everything
Active Member
Agree 100% on all that, except I thought Midsommar was still very good overall.
Einherjar86
Active Member
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Midsommar didn't feel long to me for some reason, had to look it up and it sits at 147 minutes. I didn't even realise. Unlike Hereditary which actually had an engaging and interesting story, Midsommar was mostly a cinematic aesthetic wankfest and I didn't feel invested in the story nor any of the characters (which amounted to a pretty generic slasher film teen cast). Beautifully filmed, some nice gore, that's really about it. Definitely not better than Once Upon a Time in Hollywood or The Irishman.
Einherjar86
Active Member
I thought Midsommar was hilarious on second viewing, and have come to think it's not a horror film at all but actually a black comedy about graduate study. Unlike horror films, which typically rely on tension and suspense, Midsommar featured sustained dramatic irony that distances the audience, mostly precluding any visceral experience of terror. It's a very strange technique for a "horror" film.
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challenge_everything
Active Member
Also a satire on tourism; those who seek out a cute folksy cultural experience and are gloriously ill-prepared.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
At times it seemed like an autistic American Pie, Dani and Christian's relationship was so unrelatable that I just didn't even give a shit at the developments throughout the film. Don't want to give the impression I didn't like it, but I definitely think it flopped hard in some areas.
Interesting, but I think that's somewhat tenuous since the film implies that they didn't necessarily seek out a cute folksy cultural experience, they were manipulated by Pelle.
Interesting, but I think that's somewhat tenuous since the film implies that they didn't necessarily seek out a cute folksy cultural experience, they were manipulated by Pelle.
challenge_everything
Active Member
They all went with different motivations, some went to get the cultural experience for the purpose of phd, some went to get high, but it's all a form of tourism (plenty of backpackers go to some unique place just to get drunk or stoned). I found the fates of the various characters quite effective satire on their respective privileges eg
the phd student gets killed while trespassing in the sacred temple, the culturally insensitive stoner kid gets lured to his death after pissing on the sacred tree.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
I think it was pretty obvious they were lured by Pelle
in order to each be sacrificed, they were his marks.
The boyfriend gets sacrificed because...?
challenge_everything
Active Member
Of course they were lured there, but the students don't know that at the time, they obviously each have their own reasons for wanting to go.
I think that goes to a separate theme, connected to his indifference and neglect toward Dani. She's obviously the one who makes the call to sacrifice him.
CiG
Approximately Infinite Universe
Obviously, but how is that tourism? Probably shouldn't include a plot location nobody organically wanted to go to. That'd be like if I invited you and some of your friends to my house and then had a cult I belong to kill you all, is that tourism or did I invite you somewhere with fucked up intentions? I know I sound a bit autistic and nitpicky here. 
That gets into the bit I find completely unrelatable and frankly, unrealistic to the point of detriment. Yes distant and cold partners exist, but Dani is portrayed as basically a saint, plus her whole family dies right at the start, yet not only does he neglect her but all his friends treat her like someone farted in a windowless room. Any chance you're going to be invested in any of the characters or any of their relationships with each other is trashed from the get-go. At least that's how I felt. This wouldn't be as much of a problem if much of the impact of the film wasn't wrapped up in said relationships.
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