The thread where you talk about non-metal music you like.

[NeonMetalDude]

Bob Dylan is probably the most directly influential songwriter of the second half of the 1900s, so Justin Bieber will never be comparable to him.

My point was that popularity in the eye of the general public doesn't equal quality. Masses will listen to Bieber or shit about Anacondas and buns. Not sure how you'd go about measuring influence on song-writing, but I feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration and very genre specific.

 

[CiG]

Should have made it clearer I don't care what your opinion is on my sanity.

You like Dylan, and since I it's not like I dislike him, I don't mind. I'm speaking my mind on him since the guy before compared Lindemann and him. It's 2 totally different writers, with 2 different approaches, one works for me personally the other doesn't. And I don't buy into that God-like status of Dylan. He's good though.

Fair enough. I don't place him in any sort of God-like status either.

 

[Omni]

My point was that popularity in the eye of the general public doesn't equal quality. Masses will listen to Bieber or shit about Anacondas and buns. Not sure how you'd go about measuring influence on song-writing, but I feel like that's a bit of an exaggeration and very genre specific.

His influence extends across multiple genres of music. It's worth noting that a good part of his influence is due to him bringing existing musical ideas to the attention of a greater audience than other musicians managed to do, but he also had some originality to his work.

I'm not particularly enamored with him and his music, especially because the quality is uneven, but there's no denying that he was massively influential, for better or worse.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

His influence extends across multiple genres of music. It's worth noting that a good part of his influence is due to him bringing existing musical ideas to the attention of a greater audience than other musicians managed to do, but he also had some originality to his work.

I'm not particularly enamored with him and his music, especially because the quality is uneven, but there's no denying that he was massively influential, for better or worse.

Honestly, I don't feel like I know enough about the history of modern music to dispute that and I'm not interested enough in it to do any research, so I'm taking your word for it for now . Mind giving some examples though?

 

[Satanstoenail]

He's a whiny cunt

 

[Omni]

The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Nirvana, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Nick Cave, The Clash, The Who, Tom Waits, The Doors, The Stooges, Jay-Z, The Velvet Underground, Johnny Cash, U2, Hootie and the Blowfish, Jimi Hendrix and Eminem are a handful of well-known artists that I know consider Bob Dylan to be influential on their music. I could probably list hundreds more if I did something as simple as a Google search.

 

[CiG]

He's a whiny cunt

Who isn't.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i think the above criticisms of dylan are so reductive and so clearly not the result of engaged listening that there's no point arguing with them. i love dylan a lot though (primarily, but not exclusively, '65-'66 dylan), i may submit a song to the non-metal mixtape game one of these days...

 

[Omni]

I look forward to it. Even though I consider him wildly inconsistent, he has a lot of gems.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, David Bowie, Nirvana, Neil Young, Bruce Springsteen, Nick Cave, The Clash, The Who, Tom Waits, The Doors, The Stooges, Jay-Z, The Velvet Underground, Johnny Cash, U2, Hootie and the Blowfish, Jimi Hendrix and Eminem are a handful of well-known artists that I know consider Bob Dylan to be influential on their music. I could probably list hundreds more if I did something as simple as a Google search.

I meant which musical ideas you feel were directly inspired by him, but I guess that wouldn't be quite tricky to demonstrate or prove. Or maybe I'm wrong.

To me, it's a bit like with Hendrix for guitarists. He was important in development of the instrument a long time ago, by today's standards not so much anymore, though his musicality and "feeling" don't age. If you say this, the average guitarist will want to crucify you, yet most of them haven't listened to a full Hendrix album in years, or ever. It's just not acceptable to say anything else than "omg, he's a legend, one of the best, bla, bla". I mean, he is in a sense and was important in directing the development of electric guitar playing at some point, but I also understand why a kid these days wouldn't be impressed. If you ignore the historical value and his kind of "dirty" playing isn't what you're into, then I get it - he's not that impressive anymore. It's similar with Dylan for me. There is art that doesn't age, like the poetry of Novalis for me personally, but Dylan doesn't imo belong in that category. He's just achieved legendary status in the past for various reasons and people mostly don't even dare to say (or think) anything else than that he's a legend, for fear of ridicule or because it's just a dogma. Obviously, there's also genuine fans, no offense those. I stopped listening to shit because it's the respected shit a long time ago. If it's somebody's cup of tea - it's a good cup of tea, fine by me, nothing wrong with it. But I'll say this again, even though I said it already - I'm fucking tired of Dylan being praised as the messiah of song-writing. Of the music I listen to, I see almost no parallels between those bands and Dylan, so maybe he's not THAT influential these days, or the influence is kinda negligible, or it's just a cliche, IDK.

 

[Omni]

Speaking of Jimi Hendrix, he wasn't directly responsible for a lot of the ideas that are attributed to him either. He was massively inspired by Buddy Guy's live appearances. There is even a video of one of Guy's concerts where Jimi Hendrix is in attendance. Unfortunately, Buddy Guy's conservative record label considered his style uncommercial and wouldn't allow him to create studio recordings in that style until after Hendrix popularized the idea. That's not to say that Hendrix didn't also have original musical ideas as well.

Hendrix was decent about acknowledging his inspiration, but it is overlooked, although I believe that Hendrix's relatives asked Guy to perform at his memorial service.

 

[NeonMetalDude]

Speaking of Jimi Hendrix, he wasn't directly responsible for a lot of the ideas that are attributed to him either. He was massively inspired by Buddy Guy's live appearances. There is even a video of one of Guy's concerts where Jimi Hendrix is in attendance. Unfortunately, Buddy Guy's conservative record label considered his style uncommercial and wouldn't allow him to create studio recordings in that style until after Hendrix popularized the idea. That's not to say that Hendrix didn't also have original musical ideas as well.

Hah, didn't know that, guess you learn something new every day . Thanks!

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I personally detest almost anything "-core" (probably because most of what I've seen appears to be vapid, hyper-simplistic horseshit to me) but there's no such thing objective musical taste, so if you like what you like, so be it. And I know it's more than "noise, whining, and screaming", but from a purely technical musical rubric it seems kinda cruddy to me, and I haven't seen much in it that struck me as inspired. Then again, that's just me. If you like it, I ain't gonna be an ass about it, that's your taste, and you have every right to it.

I don't listen to any deathcore, but there is certainly musically technical stuff there, and I don't know how you can pretend it's any less technical than your average polished Nuclear Blast/etc melodeath or brutal death metal band.

The "dear diary" part was an important part of my comment's context. I didn't forget "Skin Her Alive" and songs written from the point of view of serial killers and the like is pretty common. Because it's fantasy. Death is escapism.

Death metal is like what Nosferatu is to the vampire genre and deathcore is basically Interview With A Vampire. Same topic, totally different approaches.

Suicide Silence lyrics:

Dismember lyrics:

Decide for yourself.

"Smiling at the memories / When I slaughtered the whore" sounds like angsty revenge fantasy against an ex to me.

 

[-CC-]

All this talk of Dylan

 

[HamburgerBoy]

I can't stand Dylan tbh. If there's one mega-canonized oldie that I consider to be opposite to the things I value in music, it'd be him.

 

[no country for old wainds]

I look forward to it. Even though I consider him wildly inconsistent, he has a lot of gems.

if we're going by '60s standards i'd say he's fairly consistent. there are hardly any '60s albums which aren't littered with filler, but HIGHWAY 61 and BRINGING IT ALL BACK HOME are almost wall-to-wall great. obviously he's put out plenty of garbage particularly later on, but i'd say the same about most canonised rock stars who straddled several decades.

as for timelessness, i think there's a touch of the shakespeare (only a touch, mind) about how dylan encapsulated the breadth of human experience for a period, his deceptively simple music houses an extremely layered and complicated perspective that is likely to butt up against every new era of listeners/critics and continue to offer them insights and challenges. his way of approaching music was ridiculously influential (though yes, he didn't just invent it in a vacuum and obviously had precursors like guthrie etc) and continues to be so to this day, even on bands who don't sound like him aesthetically. i get why people don't like him, but i don't think they can dismiss him, pigeonhole him etc, and i expect him to continue standing the test of time just fine.

 

[no country for old wainds]

fyi all: bob dylan considered hendrix's cover of 'all along the watchtower' to be superior to his own original, and actually took a lot of influences from that cover whenever he subsequently performed it. so there was a lot of mutual respect there.

 

[Omni]

Yeah, his 1960s material is pretty consistent.

I know we aren't talking about metal, but I think that Neil Young is more consistent than Bob Dylan and I prefer his music most of the time. They're both similar musicians who mutually influenced one another, but Young is clearly also a superior guitarist and a more varied musician. He has a lot of songs that I consider absolutely timeless.

 

[no country for old wainds]

i love neil young too, i'm surprised he hasn't been in the non-metal game yet!

 

[Omni]

I might submit him next time that I play, as long as he matches a theme.