"you just don't understand"

[griffd176]

and i think, for the record, that tool is one of the worst bands of all time, and one of the most over rated. their drummer is good but not GREAT. for the record.

I couldn't agree less. I don't see how Tool could be one of the worst bands, considering the amount of dick-sucking that goes on in the metal scene for bands that come nowhere near the musicianship of Tool.

While Tool does not showcase tehnicality they do create interesting and unique music. I have no doubt that while Maynard was off with A Perfect Circle, the rest of the band could've gone off and done a technical wank-off ala Liquid Tension Experiment, but there's more to music than that. You can look up dozens of bland death metal bands who all sound so similar you would find it difficult to know who it was you were listening to. Same goes with black metal, dozens of bands that have no unique sound and all proclaim the same, useless, mind-numbing rantings "I hate God" or "It's so damn cold here" with the same shrieking voclas we've heard time and time again.

I don't dislike death metal or black metal, well at least death metal. There are numerous bands that stand out among the rest, but it seems that since more people and maybe even non-metal head know of these bands *face_shock* such as Emperor or the often mentioned in previous posts, Meshuggah, it seems to be necessary that the credibility of these bigger known bands have gone down. To counteract this unwanted surge of popularity many go in the pursuit of obscure bands that are dull and uninteresting.

In response to Tool fans I can understand the negative attitude. Considering that Tool has a legion of fans, it's bound that you'll find quite a few that can be quite annoying, whether it be pseudo-intellectualism or straight up fan-boyism. From random readings on the internets and interviews Tool enjoy taking up art and philosophy and all have an interest in "sacred geometry". This is where I believe the bias against tool fans come from, the fact that some fans believe they are smarter or whatnot because of the interests that members of Tool have. Suprisingly, similar things can be found within the area of metal. Check out metal-archives and see how many of your favorite bands have lyrical themes of "mysticism", "philosophy", or the "occult".

I do not pretend to know "sacred geometry" or pretend that I can grasp the philosophical ideas that Tool present in their lyrics. One thing that I know for certain is that Tool can actually elicit emotions and move me in ways that metal cannot. My favorite metal bands such as Suffocation, Cryptopsy, or Vader to name a few, all make me throw up the horns , but fail to move me in any other matter that Tool can. Hence my icon for Agalloch.

So to Tool I give this: . To the obscure black metal band you just came across on metal-archives I give this: uke: .

 

[Manbient]

Well again, I would pose the question, what is there to understand?

simple: the individual's interpretation of the music. There's no need to go into greater detail and disect it, this is the basic reason.

Mumblefood: Many people could like an album for completely different reasons and understand it in very different ways. Same is true of many people disliking an album. This has nothing to do with sharing an understanding of the music. It could, but not necessarily, unless I'm missing something.

yes, people don't like things for all the same reasons. However, does it still not hold that if someone "understood" an album in exactly the same way as someone else, they would have the same feelings about it? Thats almost the definition of having the same understanding.

Well noone will have the same exact "understanding" as someone else. Everyone is different and tastes in art are very subjustive.

ergo, "you just don't understand" is completely valid.

 

[Demilich]

yes, people don't like things for all the same reasons. However, does it still not hold that if someone "understood" an album in exactly the same way as someone else, they would have the same feelings about it? Thats almost the definition of having the same understanding.

Nah. I have conversations with people all the time where we agree on an understanding of things yet value them in completely different ways. I guess its up to you whether you buy into it or not, but since I've heard it happen I won't be so easily swayed.

 

[Manbient]

Nah. I have conversations with people all the time where we agree on an understanding of things yet value them in completely different ways. I guess its up to you whether you buy into it or not, but since I've heard it happen I won't be so easily swayed.

to that i say you simply DON'T have the same understanding. I think part of having the same understanding is having the same emotional response to it.

you could argue the definition of "understanding" (what this has been reduced to anyway), but i should ask then... what is it called when it includes the same emotional response if not the same "understanding"?

 

[Demilich]

I don't know, but it works for me that way, and I'm too lazy to reply further.

 

[Majesty]

I´ll solve this for you;
Meshuggah suck
Some people are too stupid to understand good music

See,that wasn´t very hard was it?

 

[Manbient]

I´ll solve this for you;
Meshuggah suck
Some people are too stupid to understand good music

See,that wasn´t very hard was it?

funny, i'd have said meshuggah are great, some people don't understand how to enjoy music like that, and it's their loss.

 

[Carcassian]

Majesty, surely your title should read:

"cursed unfunny title -1, -2 versus the literate" ?

 

[Demilich]

by your logic, Mumblefood, is it ok for someone to say an album sucks, or must they instead say that they simply don't understand why other people like it? do you do this of all the albums you dislike? maybe you do, just asking

 

[Manbient]

by your logic, Mumblefood, is it ok for someone to say an album sucks, or must they instead say that they simply don't understand why other people like it? do you do this of all the albums you dislike? maybe you do, just asking

yes, actually. I avoid saying something flat out sucks if i can. Any time somebody else really likes something and i don't, my reasoning is that i don't get it. Then it's just a matter of whether or not i want to spend the time to learn to "get it".

Agalloch for example. I don't get it. I've never once said they suck. But i get no enjoyment at all from listening to them. 4 years of trying makes me think i never will though.

EDIT: actually, that's a bit of a lie. I have said things suck before, like the new Soilwork. But i do think there is a level of objectivity to some things... like, for example, when two things are trying to achieve a similar goal. It's easier to compare them and decide who achieves that goal better.

 

[~Neurotica]

Meshuggah suck
Some people are too stupid to understand good music

Don't you see straight connection between those two phrases?.......

 

[metal paddy]

i hear this all the time, usually with bands that have some stupid "intellectual" fanebase like Tool or especially Meshuggah. I'll say, "I don't think Meshuggah are that good" and someone will say "you just dont understand the music."

Do you think this a valid argument to defend a band with?

UNDERSTAND WHAT THEM BOTH NOT VERY GOOD PADDY FINKS

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Tool is amazing.

End.

 

[Demilich]

yes, actually. I avoid saying something flat out sucks if i can. Any time somebody else really likes something and i don't, my reasoning is that i don't get it. Then it's just a matter of whether or not i want to spend the time to learn to "get it".

Agalloch for example. I don't get it. I've never once said they suck. But i get no enjoyment at all from listening to them. 4 years of trying makes me think i never will though.

EDIT: actually, that's a bit of a lie. I have said things suck before, like the new Soilwork. But i do think there is a level of objectivity to some things... like, for example, when two things are trying to achieve a similar goal. It's easier to compare them and decide who achieves that goal better.

Well, the way I see it, when I say something sucks, I'm expressing that it doesn't fit with my understanding of good music. I'm not trying to impose that view on anyone else, and I don't think any less of anyone for liking anything I dislike. I do think that I can understand things that I don't like, and make the decision not to listen to it not because I simply don't understand why people like it, but because people like different things than I.

 

[cookiecutter]

I saw a Tool video for "Prison Sex". The video was interesting in an odd sort of way, and the music was dull, so I just watched the video. I guess I don't understand Tool.

 

[griffd176]

I saw a Tool video for "Prison Sex". The video was interesting in an odd sort of way, and the music was dull, so I just watched the video. I guess I don't understand Tool.

May I ask why the music was dull? Not enough blast beats perhaps? A little more double-bass would've been good too.

 

[Demilich]

Some people on these forums presume they know way too much about other posters' reasons for doing/thinking/liking things.

 

[Carcassian]

Some people on these forums presume they know way too much about other posters' reasons for doing/thinking/liking things.

I know why you thought that.

 

[Prowler121]

Man you just don't understand Motley Crue!

 

[Ender Rises]

Where did you go, Carcassian? You were missing in action there for a while