Chimaira leaked....

ah hah...touche

Ok, I'll concede that sounded pretty harsh, but it's the mentality that the record companies take that makes me crazy. That it is my fault they aren't getting paid. So to set a couple of things straight,

1. if there is an album I like...I go to my local record shop (yes there are still some locally) and buy it. I figure "pay the boys the money" because they deserve it. Even though it kills me to pay the record companies. I just bought Tenacious D and SoilWork over the weekend.

2. You missed the point. Wal-Mart offers some incentive for the person to get the CD...discount, other merch, etc...Believe it or not, it's not just about the music these days.

3. I honestly don't think that isharing is impacting the industry too much. Yes, I have 100 "shared" CD's at home. All 100 of them are CD's I would have never gone out to the record store and bought anyway...but I do have them. So, no loss there.

4. The real problem is going to be when physical media is extinct. Then what will they do? They better start thinking about that now.

5. Here's another idea...how about some game company comes up with some kick-ass online game ie. (world of warcraft) and you can get a free 1 year online subscription with the registration code on the cd insert. The game company gets you as a hooked player, and sells your info to a marketing list, you get a free cd and online gamage. I'm not saying they're perfect ideas but it is something to think about man.

ok...getting off of soap box now.
 
Funky Animal said:
p.s. isn't this one of the reasons derek roddy had to quit hate eternal, cause it was impossible to pay the bills with just the cd sells of hate eternal albums?
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Yeah it was. I quote Roddy
"Real-life situations have forced me to resign as a member of HATE ETERNAL. I can on longer afford the expenses of touring. I have put MUCH thought into this for the last several years and kept coming to this conclusion. I must be able to afford the quality of life that I enjoy, and thus far... touring in extreme bands has not allowed me to do anything other than go into a financial hole. Every tour has put me in finanancial burden. Now, I'm not complaining (because I never expected to 'make it' playing metal), but I cannot continue to pay to do it either!!! Too expensive. Besides, I value the scene and would rather GIVE my music away than be insulted at the end of the year with a $600.00 royalty check!!!! This in NO WAY means I won't be recording and releasing extreme music. In fact, you will hear more from me (as I now have the freedom to do what I want when I want.)

"I wish HATE ETERNAL the best of luck."
 
The way Rich is doing his things is a very good way for independent bands show them out

instead on trying to get a good deal (loosing time, patience, getting frustated) i think it's much better spread out the music, freely and if anybody else like it, support them! if more and more bands do it together better will be the local scene and better bands will arise

sooner or later with good work and passion they will get exposure! it's what i think and it's what i think would work here!
 
Andy Sneap said:
Theres always the argument that if you don't like the way the business works there's nothing stopping you doing exactly what Rich is doing. But you are also limiting yourself by lack of advertising, tour support, distribution, press etc, the % will be better for sure but it just depends how you want to play it. Like someone said earlier, with illegal downloading, it's no different to shop lifting. I don't see how people can expect music to be free. Everytime something is played on TV or the Radio theres performance royalties through publishing.
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exactly. And, just because someone doesn't like illegal DL'ing doesn't mean they like the rules of the current game, either.

Hell, my band is some shitass local act, and I have felt the anger from illegal copies and downloads. We spent the money to get recording equipment, I spent the time recording mixing and mastering, our band spends time rehearsing and playing shows...And, yes, we do sell CD's pretty well...But, man, if I get one more email saying "a friend gave me a copy of your CD" or someone emailing me through our Myspace asking to allow our songs to be downloaded, I'm gonna go off...It's 100% absolutely killer that people like us or any band enough to even want to download it illegally...But, jeesh, throw us a freakin' bone! Too often these days, music is viewed as free entertainment rather than a craft or art that merits thankful compensation. If I dig a band, I want to support them, bottom line...If I like an artist, I want to support them buy paying them in thanks for providing me with something I can enjoy...I guess I don't see the point in thinking I'm entitled to freely take someone else's intellectual property and steal the time and money they've spent to make it available for my enjoyment.

The music biz may need an overhaul, but so does the general population's consensus that we are entitled to everything. I don't see how someone who even posts on here who plays an instrument or helps bands by engineering, producing or whatever can throw up a valid argument in support of pirating. But, hey, you're so "revolutionary"...:rolleyes:
 
Massili said:
The way Rich is doing his things is a very good way for independent bands show them out

instead on trying to get a good deal (loosing time, patience, getting frustated) i think it's much better spread out the music, freely and if anybody else like it, support them! if more and more bands do it together better will be the local scene and better bands will arise

sooner or later with good work and passion they will get exposure! it's what i think and it's what i think would work here!
Click to expand...

But, see, that's BS...Because the way of the world is, once it's free, it's free...Support? They don't need support because they are giving it away free! It's a vicious cycle.
 
http://negativland.com/albini.html

Steve Albini said:
The band is now 1/4 of the way through its contract, has made the music industry more than 3 million dollars richer, but is in the hole $14,000 on royalties. The band members have each earned about 1/3 as much as they would working at a 7-11, but they got to ride in a tour bus for a month. The next album will be about the same, except that the record company will insist they spend more time and money on it. Since the previous one never "recouped," the band will have no leverage, and will oblige. The next tour will be about the same, except the merchandising advance will have already been paid, and the band, strangely enough, won't have earned any royalties from their T-shirts yet. Maybe the T-shirt guys have figured out how to count money like record company guys. Some of your friends are probably already this fucked.
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nwright said:
But, hey, you're so "revolutionary"...:rolleyes:
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I'm not a revolutionary, just a realist and the reality of the situation is that soon the talent is going to figure out that the industry is screwing them.

Dude, you should be happy people are trading your music and that someone is taking the time to tell you they are listening to it. That is a HUGE compliment. Maybe you should focus on market penetration, live shows and merchandising before trying to make a living selling CD's.

I heard somewhere (and I'm sure someone will correct me here) that bands make most of their money from live shows and merchandising...not CD sales.
 
nwright said:
Fans of bands who DL leaked material and still buy the disc are rare I'd bet.
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I guess I am rare then, I dl'ed the latest killswitch before it came out and promptly purchased when it realesed. Why? Cause the promo sounded like shit but the songs sounded great.

I like the band I will buy the CD.

And fuck buying shit on itunes. Why does apple think that I wouldn't want to own my songs?

That being said I understand your argument. Especially if your fucking struggling, and unsigned with no support. It is frustrating when you maybe sell 100 cd's a month and people are copy and sharing that shit.


P.S. And I won't be downloading the album I will wait :)
 
ScottCash said:
I heard somewhere (and I'm sure someone will correct me here) that bands make most of their money from live shows and merchandising...not CD sales.
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Most of the touring bands I know make practically nothing... The money they make off merch goes straight to food and shit...
 
an aside: If the labels and RIAA spent as much time tracking down those retailers selling pirate cd's as they did on downloaders, I'm sure whatever revenues they deem to be "losing" in one sense may just be balanced out by a reduction in losses in another sense. The costs of pirate selling retailers is estimated to cost the industry in Europe in the hundreds of millions of Euros.

also: no one has mentioned distribution yet, and their cut of the pot (let alone the retailers)...If someone comes out with a better model for distribution which cuts out paying some of the scum distributors that don't pay bands (like yours truly) perhaps the costs of CD's could be lowered and more people would be more inclined to buy them. The amount of "middle-men" involved with the process hasn't changed in 40 years despite the lower costs of distribution and retail. This is mainly the reason I buy my CD's from a bands website. Hopefully a couple of middle men have been taken out of the equation thus reducing the time a band has to spend trying to get paid, therefore they can focus on what they do best.
 
I guess there should be a clear distinction between "Pirating" and "Sharing". I am totally against pirating. I agree that people who copy media and then sell it for a profit without consent are in violation of the law. Sharing, in my mind...a different story.
 
ScottCash said:
3. I honestly don't think that isharing is impacting the industry too much. Yes, I have 100 "shared" CD's at home. All 100 of them are CD's I would have never gone out to the record store and bought anyway...but I do have them. So, no loss there.
Click to expand...

That's the argument I'll never understand.
Why do you listen to Mp3s of CDs that you don't like?
Do you also have pictures of T-shirts on your computer and look at them, because you never would have bought the T-Shirt?
 
I can't bite my tongue any longer.........

People try and make a honest living off music and everyone who downloads is fucking them bottom line!! I wanna make a living off music and it kills my heart to see producers/engineers on here saying its cool to go steal the music. Yes it is stealing any way you look at it. So is it cool if you go into walmart and steal the album then cause you like it you go back and buy it?? Fuck no its not right and its illegal!!
 
man this thread got pretty fucking stupid...saying its okay to "steal music" whats next? its okay to steal a video game? or a car?

like i said in a previous post..i do download music but i also said i always go buy the cd after it..i only dl the music cus im so impatient..but I STILL GO BUY THE CD..

...i test drove my truck before i bought it..same thing im my opinion


but to say its okay to straight up steal music and not buy the cd (or atleast legally download it) is fucked up if you ask me.. its just making it harder and harder for everyone in the industry..from artists and producers to studio owners and record labels..
 
One big reason why i download shit is because im not walking in a MALL or walmart or kmart or wherever they sell these things you guys are talking about.....what are they ?? oh yeah "cds"
I in no way want to deal with things like "record stores"

And if the musician's and record people are complaining about money.......then get another job....i work in a Factory to pay my bills.....and then i write and record music and play shows.....the only thing is instead of laying around all day till you have to play a 45 minute set ......you would have to work and then play......there is alot of ppl that do it

And yes the bands hardly get shit for cd sales.....its all about the merch baby
and thats why you see alot of bands doing off dates....its a chance to get a little cash so they can maybe get a room and a shower.
 
I don't think downloading music is all bad. You just have to have some sense about it. If I download a leak, I immediately label it with (leak) after the album title in iTunes, that way I am reminded to purchase the album when it comes out.

It costs money to make albums. My band could easily give our album away, but we figure that selling it at a low price as an easy download from our website is ultimately a better way for us to recoup the cost of making the record. As far as "getting our music out there" - well, you can listen to our entire album streaming on our website before you make your purchase decision. If people want to hear the whole album before they buy, they can, without pirating it first.
 
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