Chimaira leaked....

shit, i hate getting into these discussion on the internet... but as i see it:

If you like it or not, people ARE downloading like crazy these days... because of the internet the record companies are in a slump now, the sales are bad, but they do nothing to help these bad sales.
They don't lower the price to make those who download albums instead of buying them, go for the full purchase and buy the album...

What stuck mojo did, is practically giving the record companies who are known for screwing over their bands for dollars, a big fuck you.
Rich went out and set it up in a way, where the band get's all the money now... of all the sales they make, THE BAND get's the money... and there is no record company near functioning as a big moneyfilter to only let 5% of that cash through to the band in the form of a 600 dollar cheque once a year... like Roddy said.

Way i see it, let's say that 90% of the metal scene downloads the albums from the internet, and that 10% still buys those discs in the shop or through the internet.. whatever...

Now think of what Rich did here with stuck mojo and the way they are selling it now...

If it were indeed 90% that only downloads albums, that still means that the remaining 10% that did buy the album directly from the band, that 10% is paying the band directly! not through a label, and that means that stuck mojo (in this case) is getting 100% of the sales being made... and the labels get nothing.

with the way things are now, it's not going to change soon, unless someone steps up and does something... for stuck mojo they could have done it through a label once again, but they decided to actually do something this time, and that was selling it directly to the fans, and cash in directly as well.

Drawbacks are there... sure, and i have no clue how this affects people like Andy who do production on these albums, since the band will not get money from the label now to go in the studio, they have to finance everything theirselves now...

Yeah... my two cents, but i feel stuck mojo in this case, did the exact right thing! more bands should follow... and in NO way do i condone downloading albums from the internet and leaving it at that, but we have to look at the facts here...
people do it, and at large rates, what we can do is not like it and just look at it, or do something innovating with these facts, because it is NOT going to change anytime soon, unless something is done... wrong or right is not even debatable on this subject, it is wrong, but it happens...
 
Threads like this remind me why I'm not going into the music business.

Just so I don't send the wrong impression, I buy CDs pretty much weekly - lunch money, the rare cash payment from one odd job or another that I take up out of boredom, occasional gifts, whatever it takes I'll put into buying CDs. When I can get away with it I buy straight from a band, when I can't I try to hold off for a concert (where occasionally a band member will give a 'special price' to someone who wants more going to the band and less to the label, which just makes me laugh because both parties of relevance to me - myself and the band - wind up better off), and after that I'll go online somewhere and find a decent price. ITunes bothers me because I'd basically be fucked if some twit over at Apple HQ felt like dancing one day and hit the wrong button (and you know that with Apple they'd just simplify everything for their employees and have precisely one button for everything), and even if I wanted to try new things through Direct Connect or BitTorrent it just wouldn't be efficient given how often I do a complete purge of my system; the only MP3s and burned CDs I have laying around are there because I want a home copy and a car copy of a lot of my albums. I'm a college student with no job (and no time for a job, with a 21-hour course load - for those who never went to college, the rough equivalent of an 80 hour workweek because of the stuff I'm doing) and I can still pull off CD purchases; I think that could say quite a bit about anyone, who isn't homeless and trying to pay off medical bills, who simply doesn't like the concept of having to pay money for consuming a good that took a considerable level of resources to make - just fucking considering that you have that CD for the rest of your life, a little piece of plastic that holds months of work and creativity condensed into one hour of escape from the bullshit around you, and you're paying the equivalent of two good cheesesteaks for it, I'd consider that to be a deal.

That said, my solution to this would be to put more work into things that can't be copied and sent off - I'm going into the hard sciences, so the stuff I'll be doing will boil down to teaching (whose salary tends to be done by course, not by student) and research (which must be shared, just because of the way the scientific community works), and I'm going to be pretty hard-pressed to find a way to capitalize fully on the years I'll spend just getting this incredibly advanced understanding of physical and logical laws - the only sure-fire way I'd have of getting one dollar in cash for every one dollar of production would be to teach individually for flat fees things that just could not be understood by any word but my own, and that's just not fucking happening. The sole hard-set requirement for longevity in business will always be continued demand, and at this point steady touring is the closest thing a musician can get to holding a salaried job (apart from working a non-band-related job, of course, but with some around here I must clarify these things in advance) - needless to say, this puts all in the music industry in a rather tight place, as bands haven't the time and there are many factors relating to attendance not relating to the band's abilities (weather, conflicting schedules, significant others, location of the venue, et cetera), so it would be very easy to get most in agreement with a fairly far-reaching statement to the effect of 'career musicians are fucked'. This is why I'm making sure that I'm in demand by simply being a badass that universities and technology industries would want to hire - I can just keep making stuff and teaching people in ways that can't be reproduced - and unfortunately the current state of music doesn't let Joe Shred get quite as much leverage as a physicist.

Moving on somewhat, I will temporarily become a capitalist nightmare and say that in an ideal market (i.e. where personal conflicts like those mentioned above would have a small enough impact on concert attendance to be practically negligible) for music a manageable primary dependence on performance revenues would lead naturally to more need for performers to be much more technically solid as well as entertaining for the crowd in as many other ways as possible - this would lead to what could be simplified as a system of traveling metal minstrels (instead of half-assed performers who cut-and-paste first and play guitar second, but I digress) and for those able to hold that kind of job, which is much less conducive to theft , conditions would be much more suitable. Recorded music has always been evolving and I would not see it difficult to imagine the next step of its evolution, barring the RIAA developing either infinite prosecution authority and execution ability or implanting music directly into the brain to prevent theft, bringing it to a backseat with performance being the primary production.

I don't personally like the thought of that, as I very much like being able to pick up this Mnemic CD and play it at will, without having to wait for their next tour. I also doubt strongly that there will be very extreme reactions of the above sort for two reasons - first, it assumed an ideal climate, which is almost like us discussing sex by assuming access to a pliant and willing perfect ten, and second, libraries and internet text have not yet brought an end to the printed press - but a tendency towards live performance (which was already seen in hardcore and true punk a while ago, due to label suspicion and resource limits, and which has been seen throughout jazz for most of its history) may start becoming more prominent. Services are naturally harder to steal (anyone who has gotten married will be the first to jump on this and clarify), so as things get worse keep in mind that, especially in such a small niche market as metal, widespread failure to support recorded media could greatly reduce its viability from the band's and label's side.

Jeff
 
download the cd you wanna buy first, dig it , and then buy it

thas my theory ,

if you dont dig the cd, couse the sound, to many mistakes, bad songs, crappy band , or whattever , dont buy it...

its like when you go to the store, you listn the cd, and if you dont like it , of course you wont buy the album so...

is the same downloading the album . then you lisnt to it in your pc, you get the money in a couple of weeks , and if you like it you go directly to the sotre and buy it...

:)


by the way..

the new nightrage album is leaked also jeje , i will buy for sure when it cames out :)
 
Some peoples posts in this thread make me mad! Especially ScottCash. How can anyone be so schizophrenic. Sure the record companies should be way more inventive and use the digital ways of distribution to their advantage, but WHY do people not understand that no matter how much you dislike the labels, the managers, the bands, etc. and the way they do business it DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT TO STEAL THEIR STUFF!!!! Would you steal a Ferarri because you do not agree with their price politics or because you do not like the owners nose?!?!?!? :puke: :puke:

Aside from that how is any distribution concept going to work as long as you can download the stuff for free? Even if an Album costs 3$ to download people would click the link in the other browser window where they get the same thing for free.

Luckily even in Germany people get sued now for sharing and downloading music!:headbang:
 
Black neon bob said:
shit, i hate getting into these discussion on the internet... but as i see it:

If you like it or not, people ARE downloading like crazy these days... because of the internet the record companies are in a slump now, the sales are bad, but they do nothing to help these bad sales.
They don't lower the price to make those who download albums instead of buying them, go for the full purchase and buy the album...

What stuck mojo did, is practically giving the record companies who are known for screwing over their bands for dollars, a big fuck you.
Rich went out and set it up in a way, where the band get's all the money now... of all the sales they make, THE BAND get's the money... and there is no record company near functioning as a big moneyfilter to only let 5% of that cash through to the band in the form of a 600 dollar cheque once a year... like Roddy said.

Way i see it, let's say that 90% of the metal scene downloads the albums from the internet, and that 10% still buys those discs in the shop or through the internet.. whatever...

Now think of what Rich did here with stuck mojo and the way they are selling it now...

If it were indeed 90% that only downloads albums, that still means that the remaining 10% that did buy the album directly from the band, that 10% is paying the band directly! not through a label, and that means that stuck mojo (in this case) is getting 100% of the sales being made... and the labels get nothing.

with the way things are now, it's not going to change soon, unless someone steps up and does something... for stuck mojo they could have done it through a label once again, but they decided to actually do something this time, and that was selling it directly to the fans, and cash in directly as well.

Drawbacks are there... sure, and i have no clue how this affects people like Andy who do production on these albums, since the band will not get money from the label now to go in the studio, they have to finance everything theirselves now...

Yeah... my two cents, but i feel stuck mojo in this case, did the exact right thing! more bands should follow... and in NO way do i condone downloading albums from the internet and leaving it at that, but we have to look at the facts here...
people do it, and at large rates, what we can do is not like it and just look at it, or do something innovating with these facts, because it is NOT going to change anytime soon, unless something is done... wrong or right is not even debatable on this subject, it is wrong, but it happens...
Click to expand...

I think it's 100% awesome that a band has taken it into tehir hands...They will make more from sales as it will go straight to their pockets, but also, they have more to lose as well. Sure they don't have an advance to pay back and all that stuff, but the money to be able to keep creating music is still going to be lost when someone DL's the album. Looking at the big picture, I think band's that don't have to rely on a label and can generate income for themselves by themselves are doing it right...But, they stand as much or a greater chance of still losing money to those who download illegally. No 2 ways about it. Instead of making (or losing) 50 cents or whatever for each album sale lost, now those bands can lose 3-5 times that much or more...And, without any other sources of support, you can bet that sales are going to be smaller from the outset.
 
ScottCash said:
I'm not a revolutionary, just a realist and the reality of the situation is that soon the talent is going to figure out that the industry is screwing them.

Dude, you should be happy people are trading your music and that someone is taking the time to tell you they are listening to it. That is a HUGE compliment. Maybe you should focus on market penetration, live shows and merchandising before trying to make a living selling CD's.

I heard somewhere (and I'm sure someone will correct me here) that bands make most of their money from live shows and merchandising...not CD sales.
Click to expand...

As someone who really isn't in the "industry" (i.e. a local band), the only person who gets screwed is my band when it comes to filesharing and copying CD's. For me, the biz doesn't even enter the argument for my band specifically.

I'm not trying to make a living selling CD's, but it illustrates the point that a band who's doing it all on their own stands as much of a chance of losing $$$ from sharing/DL'ing as those who have label support. Money lost is money lost, it just differs from whose pocket we're taking it from.

When I get those emails, I'm ecstatic that people dig our tunes and want others to hear our music. But, when I think about the money I've spent on gear/ recording stuff and most of all time to create the product, it stings to hear someone who "digs our stuff so much, OMG!!" wasn't willing to pay for it, it's a bummer. I'm not saying they have to or anything, but sometimes the bottom line can creep into my thoughts. We have a ton of fun playing music, which is our goal, but also it can leave you hollow and penniless at the end of the day. I have no problem blowing most of my money on gear, but it's really nice to know that those people who dig our music liked it enough to actually pay for it.

And, yes, bands can make more money selling merch and playing shows, but any avenue of income is important.

As a struggling local band, we make a whopping 3 bucks a CD and 3 bucks a shirt (after the costs involved in creating the products)...So, for us, a CD sale is just as important as someone buying a shirt or whatever. In a time where metal's crowd has shrunk to it's smallest since the nu-metal craze (as far as I can tell), EVERY avenue counts.
 
Its not right to compare watching TV to downloading music for free. TV gets its money either through advertising, or government based subsidaries. I'd rather buy the album than have adverts after every song. Downloading music for me is stealing, but I wouldn't compare it to walking into a shop and tea-leafing a CD - when you download it, you are limited to the quality of the mp3 encoding, and also you get no actual CD or case. I think the way to stop a lot of these leaked albums is to put talking during the songs or something. If there is talking then at least people can listen to it, and if they like it can buy it and have the full version. Having said that, once the full version is released its then available for people to download for free.

Maybe record companies should make the promo versions with talking over a part of a song more easily accessible, then there can't be any excuses for not buying a CD if someone likes it. Hope I made sense haha.
 
Having reviewed some early-release albums I can tell you that many people do put voice-overs (You're listening to ... by ... off of the album ... at irregular intervals), prolonged off-center beeps, phone ringing sounds, et cetera on the early releases. It only takes one, however, to be released without that for the purpose to be lost entirely. If you look at album downloads on torrent searches you'll see promo, promo - no beep, early release, release, special edition, or whatever else happens to be available marked after the name so that downloaders know what to expect.

Few people put a whole lot of interest in album art, as evidenced by the popularity of downloaded (legally or illegally) music.

Jeff
 
Okay, my other band...


My less serious one that is pretty much a drunken cunt about released a cd in april 2006.


By may 2006, we had over 2 downloads and major requests for a new CD.


October 2006 - NEw CD


November 2006 - Asked to appear on metal hammer cover CD with bands like týr, blind guardian, firewind, theorion, I, and so on.


We've never promoted ourselves, just posted out crap on 2 forums and people have taken it from there.


We've never chagred for our music, all downloaded....


Point is, for a small band, downloading is the best thing that can happen to them.

i fucking hate bands that roll along with a demo cD saying

"right, £10 for our disc"

No way.


Every new band i hear about, i download an album first and if i like it, support them and buy it and anythin else they've done. I expect the same from people that listen to my own music.
 
I'm curious to see how much of a difference that would make. On one end, it helps promote and increase sales, but if it leaks...it decreases sales...so would it even out?

I do think that its worth putting it out there for people to review and have people at least know about it so they can buy it than to not let anyone review it at all and you have people that are fans that don't even know you put out a CD.
 
Although I dont disagree with Stuck mojos new method I wouldnt expect to see them on a tour opening for a bigger act anytime soon. Record companies are kind of useful for buy ons. Oh and advertising. Oh and paying for studio time for the next album. Ok theyve done it this time but its to early to tell wether its been a success or not yet
 
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