Controversial non-metal opinions

(((0))) said:
Considering that any decent guitar lessons come with a pretty in-depth study of music theory, it is not absurd to think I know a fair amount about how music is made. The chords that people have talked about prove my point. Pink Floyd make like jazz, but they certainly do not sound jazzy. I don't think you were implying that they are jazz because of improvisation, but mostly on the jazz sound in general.

I don't think you even like jazz.
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Most guitar lessons don't come with an in-depth study of music theory. Advanced music theory is a college-level course and not part of the curriculum of most guitar lessons. You didn't actually prove me wrong, nor offer any type of insight that demonstrates even the slightest knowledge of music theory throughout this entire discussion, unless you want to count trying to tell me that I don't like jazz as part of your proof.

I hate to tell you, but I absolutely adore John Coltrane, and I like Miles Davis, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Ornette Coleman, Herbie Hancock, Sun Ra, Jaco Pastorius, Joe Pass and Eric Dolphy, though I definitely haven't listened to any of those musicians nearly as much as I have Coltrane.
 
Exactly what did I misrepresent? I took issue with the following statements:

Omni said:
often complex, jazzy song structures.
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False

Omni said:
tremendous jazzy influence on The Dark Side of the Moon
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False

Nowhere did I say that you said it was their primary influence. Ultimately the point is I don't think any reasonable summary of Pink Floyd's musical sound (excuse the tautology) as a whole (ie not pointing to individual isolated moments in isolated songs) would include a mention of jazz, far less cite it as a tremendous influence.

But yeah this thread is a mess, so let's move on to something else.
 
but ya gotta admit it is the ultimate non metal controversial opinion

its become kinda of jazzy around here
 
Omni said:
Most guitar lessons don't come with an in-depth study of music theory. Advanced music theory is a college-level course and not part of the curriculum of most guitar lessons. You didn't actually prove me wrong, nor offer any type of insight that demonstrates even the slightest knowledge of music theory throughout this entire discussion, unless you want to count trying to tell me that I don't like jazz as part of your proof.

I hate to tell you, but I absolutely adore John Coltrane, and I like Miles Davis, Charles Mingus, Thelonious Monk, Ornette Coleman, Herbie Hancock, Sun Ra, Jaco Pastorius, Joe Pass and Eric Dolphy, though I definitely haven't listened to any of those musicians nearly as much as I have Coltrane.
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Most lessons do. You can't really get that far from just playing songs and such. Through theory, you understand what and how to play what you want to. Most lessons are based off of this, unless you have an inexperienced and worthless teacher who rather have you play "Smoke on the Water" for years on end. For kids my age that are good students, it's even easier to get classes on music theory, seeing that most schools offer A.P. Music Theory. It's a pretty rigorous class that offers an in-depth look at the construction of music. So no, you are wrong. Anyways, like someone already stated, Pink Floyd do not use jazz chords or play them in a manner that do so. Most of the chords in many songs of theirs are stuff you would find in most rock songs. Sure, they dress them up and make them more interesting but it's still based in rock/blues music. Some of the more complicated and less-often used 7th chords share a jazzier sound, but are not played in a way to present a jazz sound. If you notice, most chords they play with a 7th are followed by a normal "rock" chord, so it's not like they are really going out to make their sound very jazzy or straying away from a standard rock sound.

I might be wrong, so anyone who knows more about theory can correct me.

I will say you do know good jazz. I dig most of those expect Mingus. I will not try and start a discussion because you won't want to, of course.
 
I don't know, really. I dig that wild, ethnic sound he had and I do admit he was a pretty great and influential player. I only own about three albums from him and all have been pretty cold for me. I have not downloaded anything else from him just yet. I will do so and see if I like his other stuff.

For jazz, I really like Eric Dolphy and some of the early Miles Davis stuff. I have a ton more to dig through, though.
 
(((0))) said:
Most lessons do. You can't really get that far from just playing songs and such. Through theory, you understand what and how to play what you want to. Most lessons are based off of this, unless you have an inexperienced and worthless teacher who rather have you play "Smoke on the Water" for years on end. For kids my age that are good students, it's even easier to get classes on music theory, seeing that most schools offer A.P. Music Theory. It's a pretty rigorous class that offers an in-depth look at the construction of music. So no, you are wrong.
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Music lessons rarely offer lessons on theory as well; they teach students chords, scales, modes... that kind of thing. This is still a significant step away from understanding theory. Theory is something that requires serious amount of time, and most music lessons don't delve that deeply into intense theory.

(((0))) said:
Anyways, like someone already stated, Pink Floyd do not use jazz chords or play them in a manner that do so. Most of the chords in many songs of theirs are stuff you would find in most rock songs. Sure, they dress them up and make them more interesting but it's still based in rock/blues music.
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You basically just admitted that they use jazz chords. They use regular chords, but "dress them up and make them sound more interesting." Essentially, they're more complicated. Those are jazz chords. Pink Floyd utilizes these kinds of chords in several songs.

(((0))) said:
Some of the more complicated and less-often used 7th chords share a jazzier sound, but are not played in a way to present a jazz sound. If you notice, most chords they play with a 7th are followed by a normal "rock" chord, so it's not like they are really going out to make their sound very jazzy or straying away from a standard rock sound.

I might be wrong, so anyone who knows more about theory can correct me.
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Their song "Dogs" features a Dm9, followed by a Bbadd4, followed by an E7sus4, followed by an Ebmaj7sus4.

They may not be the most complicated chords you can find, but they're featured on many jazz guitar chord charts.
 
Hendrix used those chords too, and we all know his music was all about the jazz. Page used many too, Zepp was really jazzy

MORE TO JAZZ THAN CHORDS !

Rhythmically Floyd was as white as it gets, they had great feel though.

My local music store owner/guitar teacher, teaches theory, many get as far as a Floyd level. Few if any get as far as JAZZ, you are correct there real jazz takes something very special that I dont even know what it is. Many innovaters probably couldnt write much english, let alone know a thing about theory, they had some kind of strange feel for expression.
 
*dies*


Well, how loud do I need to say it. Rush sucks. Rush has always sucked. Rush is probably the most overrated band in the world. People say you need to be on drugs to understand the Floyd. Rush has been drinking heavily from the soup since day 1 and it shows. I've never heard such carefree middle-of-the-road music in the rock idiom. BORING. To be even close to good, they have to throw a large block of cheddar in the mix.............. What can this strange device be? It's got wires that vibrate........... and thus a potential epic takes an ice cold shower, never to recover. Rush sucks. Rush does not cease to suck because Neil Peart claims to know what there is to know about drums or writes intellectual lyrics for the rock realm. There is nothing intense or deeply involved about any of their music. I might as well just spend some time numbly spinning away in one of their washing machines.




The washing machines are pretty incredibly awesome though, I do concede. And the snack machines.
 
You serious ? I love Rush, especially Caress of Steel then Fly by Night. Very important albums of my youth. Come to think of it I'm going to spin them now. I love them most cause their very jazzy
 
Yes, that band is so incredibly boring and colorless... I would almost rather listen to Dream Theater..almost.






Although, I don't hear the jazziness. I must say, if they were more jazzy, I might like them better. Currently however I go to Pink Floyd for my jazz-rock fix. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of properly combining jazz and rock. Watch out mind, you're about to blow. o_Oo_Oo_O
 
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