Controversial non-metal opinions

Alter said that Floyd doesn't use "jazz" chords. I was proving him wrong.

Thats who that is ? Anyhow I understood what he said to be that they didnt stick to them. Either way this got pretty blown out of proportion, Omni said they had posted too quickly and breifly but compounded it by saying things like being deaf if you cant hear jazz, which was sure to make at least one person say wa? and respond that you must not know jazz. I could see how it all unfolded.

I was surprised no one called me out on saying ELP displayed little or no jazz (I forget how I worded it) when at times they sounded very fusion-ish and nearly predated Mahavishnu. Im talking about the song Tarkus, a very interesting listen when understanding that it was '71.
 
Woo 'Tarkus'! Just look at that album cover.

Tarkus.jpg


One of those moments where you're just dumbfounded by the awesomeness of it.

But ELP in general...pretty average IMO... I do like the suite of the same name as that album.........but I feel like if they weren't a supergroup, a lot of their stuff wouldn't be regarded as highly..
 
Yes, that band is so incredibly boring and colorless... I would almost rather listen to Dream Theater..almost.






Although, I don't hear the jazziness. I must say, if they were more jazzy, I might like them better. Currently however I go to Pink Floyd for my jazz-rock fix. I wonder if anyone has ever thought of properly combining jazz and rock. Watch out mind, you're about to blow. o_Oo_Oo_O

I like DT too but I have always been into progressive. Dream Theater was such a breath of fresh air to me in '92. I found my early Crack the Sky, Rush, Kansas all molded into a more aggressive metal format without the elements that I didnt really get into with metal.

I think Steely Dan did an excellent job, Royal Scam is one of my favorite albums (I have many)
I think Jeff Beck did a good job with Blow by Blow and Wired
Tommy Bolin had a few decent instrumentals that rocked the fusion up a bit
Crack the Sky had a few rocking tunes that were funked a tad
I checked youtube for those Tropea songs I was thinking of and there is no old Tropea and they are not even on wiki. The song Im trying to remember was funky/jazz/rock with really nice guitar work, nothing for "shredheads" though
Trowers "Caledonia" is sweet but that just funked up rock

I would go to these if I wanted rock that really showed signs of jazz... NOT Pink Floyd, it just doesnt apply to them

As for mixing pure jazz with rock, it seem impossible to me because the two are so adverse in feel
 
Yes it does. Haven't you ever heard 'The Wall'. Clearly a tribute to the epic years of Coltrane. It's the notes you DON'T hear that make it jazz, plus all the jazz chords. In fact I would go so far as to say that album is pure modal jazz. I like it even better than 'Kind of Blue'.
 
Woo 'Tarkus'! Just look at that album cover.

Tarkus.jpg


One of those moments where you're just dumbfounded by the awesomeness of it.

But ELP in general...pretty average IMO... I do like the suite of the same name as that album.........but I feel like if they weren't a supergroup, a lot of their stuff wouldn't be regarded as highly..

Dude, if your in the band Skyliner, pretty decent stuff BTW but its redundent power metal. You(anyone) have got to be on the cutting edge of creativity before you can justly critisize those that were. Even if your just an average musician but bring something new to the table your worth your weight in gold. Rush, ELP, Tull, Kansas, Dream Theater, Pink Floyd, Eddie VanHalen all brought something that was unheard before them, raised the bar in the direction of music, that is their value, it is that by which they are regarded and have earned their credit. Its not all about speed or extensive instrumental ability, its can you create something we havent already heard a few hundred times. When a band or instrumentalist is superceded in skill by the next guy that comes along and copies you and a few of your "competitors", combining the styles and techniques, does not remove merit from the guy that did the stuff in the first place.

Im telling you its perception, thats the key to understanding
 
*dies*


Well, how loud do I need to say it. Rush sucks. Rush has always sucked. Rush is probably the most overrated band in the world. People say you need to be on drugs to understand the Floyd. Rush has been drinking heavily from the soup since day 1 and it shows. I've never heard such carefree middle-of-the-road music in the rock idiom. BORING.
Cept for a few songs off of 2112 (Temple of Syrinx or however the hell you spell it rules) they bore me to tears. Them and The Who are two of the most overrated bands ever next to U2.

Yes, that band is so incredibly boring and colorless... I would almost rather listen to Dream Theater..almost.
i personally hate DT
*dodges*
 
raaaaaaaaaazor razor razor..

:lol: Here I thought you were morphing into a decent and intelligent person to converse over music with rather than continuing to beat the old vs young dead horse. I don't care if ELP invented the cheeseburger, I don't like their music too much, and I don't have to invent anything myself in order to have that right, mk? In fact, I could honestly care less how original sounding or not a band is. I write and listen to FEEL something, you know? Not so I can stand and observe brushstrokes with my nose up like I'm some jaded curator at a museum. And when I listen to something, my perception isn't tainted by when it came out, who else came out at the time, what it sounded like, or what matter of damn anybody in the entire world thinks about it. And considering I'm a Floyd freak, it's completely gay for you to even think you need to point out anything regarding speed or technicality to me. In fact, if YOU actually listened to any of my own stuff, you would realize those things aren't the point there either. But we're just a lil ol' band from Florida and not in some legendary status, so that pretty much means it's not worth such attention. Is all that controversial for this thread? :p
 
an ELP song i REALLY like...i'll admit a good majority of their material can be a bit strange and directionless. If they stayed on this path they would have been extra awesome.


Great performance by Greg Lake indeed
 
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Well at least I got to the bottom of it

were did I mention taste ? I was talking about merit and all the "over-rated" talk, like I'm some jaded curator at a museum with my nose up attitude
 
Alter said that Floyd doesn't use "jazz" chords. I was proving him wrong.

I said they use them, just not a lot and not in a jazzy way. So sorry, wrong. Many artists use chords that jazz artists may use, but that does not make them sound like jazz. Pink Floyd may use chords that are similar to jazz artists, but so do many folk artists or heavy metal. It's not a strech to think that people use 7th chords.

Scales and all that stuff are theory. That's the defination of music theory.
 
an ELP song i REALLY like...i'll admit a good majority of their material can be a bit strange and directionless. If they stayed on this path they would have been extra awesome.
Great performance by Greg Lake indeed

One thing I do remember from the old magazines because its hard to forget was, one critic said Keith Emerson couldnt write a decent song and they should have left the job to Greg. I like Luckyman too and always Gregs voice. The song "Footprints in the Snow" from the much later Blackmoon album struck home too. I wasnt into ELP when I was young except for the few songs that made radio, I wanted to rock so I never owned Tarkus and Brain Salad until 4 years ago, then it clicked as a whole. But yeah there is some questionable moments. Keys arent my thing anyhow.
 
I said they use them, just not a lot and not in a jazzy way. So sorry, wrong. Many artists use chords that jazz artists may use, but that does not make them sound like jazz. Pink Floyd may use chords that are similar to jazz artists, but so do many folk artists or heavy metal. It's not a strech to think that people use 7th chords.

Scales and all that stuff are theory. That's the defination of music theory.

Look, I'm sick of this. They use jazz chords, that was all I said; and they're more complicated than just 7th chords, that's the point I was making. As far as theory goes, no one gets a deep understanding of theory from music lessons. You need a class for that.

Controversial Opinion (maybe):
Eric Johnson is better than Satriani or Vai. In fact, I'd say he's better than Malmsteen... or most "virtuoso" players that exist. He's one of the few shredders that can play with actual feeling.
 
There is no more feeling than Satch, Johnson is on par with Satch neither above or below only different. Vai is a bit dry, more of a bag of tricks player. Malmsteen is redundent but posesses great melodic presentation and feel for a shredder.
 
I agree with Einherjar, although I think Vai gets unfair flak for "lack of feel". A fair bit of his stuff I find emotionally engaging, and the song "For the Love of God" is one of the most emotionally resonant (not to mention technically jaw-dropping) pieces of music I've ever heard. Satriani doesn't do much for me.
 
Controversial Opinion (maybe):
Eric Johnson is better than Satriani or Vai. In fact, I'd say he's better than Malmsteen... or most "virtuoso" players that exist. He's one of the few shredders that can play with actual feeling.
I worship Vai and Satch but never looked into any other albums from Eric Johnson other than Ah Via Musicom...any of his albums possibly better than that one? Thats a tough one to beat.
 
I worship Vai and Satch but never looked into any other albums from Eric Johnson other than Ah Via Musicom...any of his albums possibly better than that one? Thats a tough one to beat.

can't stand any of those rock shredder guys... John McLaughlin is where its at.