Faggoth?

[Ginja_Ninja]

population is controlled by a select few

you just hit the nail on the head, you've further proved my point

d00d, hitler would have every fvcking metalhead and punk-azz-skinheads shot the minute he sees any of them, don't fool yourself, he's an arsehole and you will hate him for it

 

[Varulv]

Well uh, no he wouldn't. Basically, the only freedoms that would be heavily restricted is political expression... as long as he didn't know you had them, you'd be okay. Hitler wouldn't shoot all metallers/punks either. Why? Because there are a lot of racist/NS punk and metal bands/fans. But hey, who gives a shit? The man is dead and there won't be another leader like him for quite some time... Well, possibly sometime soon in Russia, but I doubt anywhere else.

 

[Ginja_Ninja]

for someone like hitler, he would see metalheads/punk-skins (regardless of NS reliefs) as morally corrupt, ill-disciplined bunch of punk-azzez waiting to open a can of whoopass

and he would shoot the bastards accordingly, or well at least make them do hard labour

 

[no country for old wainds]

Do you believe it's a blanket statement, though? EVERY black metal band HAS to have the ideology?

I'm sure that there's at least one NSBM band that isn't folksy and sounds like the usual Immortal/Emperor/Mayhem band.

The majority of NSBM bands are trying to capture the spirit of National Socialism, and of times before Christianity took over, thus they are always going to have similar influences to their sound. You probably weren't questioning this.

I understand what you're asking. Of course a band that plays excellent NSBM but doesn't actually believe in the ideology, is still playing NSBM. My point is that this band is still expressing the NS ideology through the music. Another of my points is that a band who plays something that they don't really believe in is unlikely to create anything truly spectacular.

You may also be asking whether a band that sounds like NSBM but has lyrics about flowers and cover art expressing pro-communist views is still NSBM. Firstly, this band is likely to just play confused, directionless music. Secondly, even if they don't, I tend to analyse/interpret/enjoy an album as a whole, and it's likely to seem confused and directionless to me because I won't really be able to work out what they're trying to achieve (as they don't seem to know themselves - unless the aim is indeed to confuse, in which case I suppose they deserve a pat on the back).

Also, lyrics/cover-art/etc do play an (albeit not a huge) part in analysing the quality of an album, and if they express something I completely disagree with then I'm going to mark the album down, particularly if it's completely demeaning the apparent purpose of the music in question.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I guess that makes sense. Finally.

 

[R.I.P.2]

Also, lyrics/cover-art/etc do play an (albeit not a huge) part in analysing the quality of an album, and if they express something I completely disagree with then I'm going to mark the album down, particularly if it's completely demeaning the apparent purpose of the music in question.

Right, so I guess a lot of Classical albums get marked down by you.

 

[R.I.P.2]

Don't you mean 'the music disagrees with' rather than 'I completely disagree with'?

 

[no country for old wainds]

Both.

 

[no country for old wainds]

E.g. Christian Black Metal

 

[Demiurge]

That is just plain homosexual. And because that is so, hopefully the kVlt tr00 black metallers will kill themselves.

I can't see why people prefer the gr1m tr00 black metal over stuff like Dimmu Borgir, anyway. I mean, Mayhem's Live in Leipzeig is pretty cool, and Darkthrone kick ass...but they can't touch the melodic symphonic black metal, like early CoF or Old Man's Child or Borknagar or later Emperor or whatever. Why should people care so much about the ideology that they lose the focus that the music is pants? I don't mean to offend those that like the raw coldness of it all, but it's gonna get old. And those Bible-burning, Jew-hating, "National Socialists" will grow up eventually. Notice how Bathory and Immortal and Emperor and Ulver gave up their black metal roots and began forging new identities just to get away from the limiting boundaries of archaic 80's black metal. And instead of advancing the genre along with them, they were simply dismissed as no longer tr00.

Notice how Cryptopsy, Morbid Angel, and Possessed are all death metal...and yet very different in sound, theme, and aesthetic. Black metal should be the same. Bands should be able to complicate and experiment and orchestrate and retain the title. When something sounds like black metal...I'll call it black metal. I'm not going to nitpick little bullshit details and call them "Finnish norsecore with classical influences" or "Polish faggoth with orchestral elements" or "ex-NSBM-turned-faggoth". Fuck that!

A) Bathory, Ulver, Immortal, etc. decided to turn to something more limiting and archaic than black metal. Anthemic heavy metal! I am resisting the temptation to call you a name after you've uttered something so ridiculous.

B) the music you hail is merely pentatonic heavy metal with keys, screechy vocals, and usually circular structures. Please join the rest of us in reality.

C) Notice that Temnozor, rehtaF ruO, Necromantia, and Countess are all black metal, yet very different in sound.

D) who said that bands couldn't innovate? Stop making things up to suit your argument. The problem is that people call things that are in reality hackneyed and dull "original" or "groundbreaking" after some superficial gimmick has been tacked on. "Oooohh, I'm listening to something that wallows in a musical style that is 30 years old, but they've added keyboards and they wear corpse paint. I am so cutting edge, d00d."

 

[Demiurge]

for someone like hitler, he would see metalheads/punk-skins (regardless of NS reliefs) as morally corrupt, ill-disciplined bunch of punk-azzez waiting to open a can of whoopass

and he would shoot the bastards accordingly, or well at least make them do hard labour

Damnit, Adolf 'ol boy, I thought you were dead.

Hitler was fond of nationalistic music.

 

[R.I.P.2]

A) Bathory, Ulver, Immortal, etc. decided to turn to something more limiting and archaic than black metal. Anthemic heavy metal! I am resisting the temptation to call you a name after you've uttered something so ridiculous.

Ulver turned to anthemic heavy metal?

 

[neoclassical]

Music is art, and art expresses ideas... except when it's there to entertain. There's a difference between Cradle of Filth and Graveland, and it's not any of the details that immediately grab the eye - or ear.

 

[neoclassical]

Well uh, no he wouldn't. Basically, the only freedoms that would be heavily restricted is political expression... as long as he didn't know you had them, you'd be okay. Hitler wouldn't shoot all metallers/punks either. Why? Because there are a lot of racist/NS punk and metal bands/fans. But hey, who gives a shit? The man is dead and there won't be another leader like him for quite some time... Well, possibly sometime soon in Russia, but I doubt anywhere else.

The Nazis were surprisingly tolerant, if one chooses to read information of an academic and not political nature.

Stalin less so. If you read the excellent biography of Alexander Solzhenitsyn...

 

[neoclassical]

both like totaly control/monopoly from a few

And capitalist democracies do not?

Both Bush and Kerry are Yale classmates and members of an elite society there, as well as children of people who made money exploiting the land and its people.

You serve your slavery.

 

[neoclassical]

I'm not sure if I read that second sentence right, but I'll say it anyway; National Socialism is quite different than Socialism and to imply that they're the same thing (or even similar) is insulting to the "creators" of the seperate ideologies, heh... Okay, I'm done.

"Regular socialism" is an economic and political system for its own sake; "National Socialism" uses the same methods for a different goal that is not solely self-referential.

 

[Hell Mike]

Well, communism like the way Marx described is has never really existed, where as true National Socialism has.

... because communism the way Marx described it CAN NOT EXIST. We have seen many who tried and they have a kill count that is more than ten times that of the Nazis.

 

[Demiurge]

if darkthrone played rock & roll, they would've released "Nattens Madrigal"

 

[anonymousnick2001]

Uh...no.

Pwned.

@Guardian of Darkness, you made your point. It makes sense now. Finally.

It's not so much an established rule, but a general 'way things happen to be.' I give it a few years until the lines get so blurred that no one will be able tell, or even care anymore. Someone's gonna break the mold. Dimmu Borgir couldn't do it, but they proved one can come close. In the end, it's just music. Entertainment or art, it's not worth getting honestly worked up over. For those keeping score, everyone wins...for now.

 

[neoclassical]

It's not so much an established rule, but a general 'way things happen to be.' I give it a few years until the lines get so blurred that no one will be able tell, or even care anymore. Someone's gonna break the mold. Dimmu Borgir couldn't do it, but they proved one can come close. In the end, it's just music. Entertainment or art, it's not worth getting honestly worked up over. For those keeping score, everyone wins...for now.

Why do you want to lump everyone into the generic genre?

Some people wish to rise above rock music, and it's a worthy ambition.

Entertainment is a product of this degenerate time, but better things await.