In Flames New Album being released in Q2 of 2014 thread

[only4theweak187]

Pop-Metal is the perfect description for this.

Times are tough, the music industry barely brings in any $ from record sales. Why would they not want to reach as many people as possible with "generalized" new music? Of course I get that. Totally understandable.

I let go Rusted Nail as the needed "poppy" sounding single that has to be there for the music video and as a first taste for people new to them and their music. They're trying to break into trendy, metalcoreish, pop stuff that teenagers are into. I really can't hate on that when they have families and adult responsibilities to worry about.

And I actually really dig the "WIDE AWAKE, BUT STILL ASLEEP"
I feel that'd be a better chorus if they added more to that or extended it, or something maybe? Idk, I'm just going off on a tangent.

But the "HmmmMhhhmmmhmm" before the first verse still makes me giggle.


I wish they'd even make something as catchy as "Cloud Connected" or "Trigger"... Not this kind of back pedaling these 3 songs we've heard so far are.

SOAPF's A New Dawn was the most reminiscent In Flames-sounding song in years. Hopefully there's something like that on this record.

 

[Jester313]

I want another Come Clarity. At least production-wise. So raw and aggressive. Even another Soundtrack, but maybe with fewer pop riffs. Still was a pretty aggressive album. New stuff lacks bite.

 

[DE4life]

To be honest, I'm not sure writing these types of songs is a positive move business wise for In Flames.

I don't see how they gain any new fans with music like this. As A88 said, there are dozens of bands doing it far better already. I don't know why In Flames they can force themselves into this market with lazy songwriting and sub-par vocals. They were able to break into the nu-metal market in the early-mid 2000's because the entire genre is based on lazy songwriting and shitty vocals. Their attempts to move into more general rock music will fail because as a name they aren't big enough and as song writers they have simply become too lazy and complacent.

Their other problem is that whilst their new album is (imo) unlikely to bring in many new fans, it will turn plenty of current fans off. The reaction I've seen on various sites for Rusted Nail has been overwhelmingly negative. Even "nu" In Flames fans are bemoaning their lack of creativity. They've already alienated the majority of their older fanbase, if they start losing the nu-metal fanbase they built up in the mid-2000's it may be a death knell for the band because I cannot see a new surge of people wanting to listen to Anders mumble over some half-assed riffing, no matter how catchy the chorus lines are.

 

[only4theweak187]

At least they can still pull this off if they wanted. (recorded in 2012)


But now that I think about it, I've never seen a band so insulted by the fact that their fans want to hear their best shit.

It literally makes zero sense.

 

[A88]

Obviously, they can't play old stuff with just two guitars. 260 layers of synth and vocals going through the speakers sound soooo much better. Also, crowd is quite lame and static when they play that ancient stuff. Now, The chosen pessimist... that's a real crowdpleaser.

 

[DE4life]

At least they can still pull this off if they wanted. (recorded in 2012)


But now that I think about it, I've never seen a band so insulted by the fact that their fans want to hear their best shit.

It literally makes zero sense.

They can pull off their old stuff live but that's hardly a surprise as they've played most of those songs a million times anyway. It's very different to creating new material though. Personally I don't think they have the desire or the guile to write material in any way close to the 1996-2000 period.

I have some theories as to why they get so offended by fans asking for older material, but no matter what the explanation it is a bizarre stance to take. It's almost like they're ashamed of the material that put them in a position to crack the nu-metal/alternative/emo/scene kid market in the first place.

To be proud of garbage like ASOP and yet seemingly be embarrassed by TJR or Whoracle is beyond ridiculous but does show that the band is nowadays motivated by and indeed only values the cash albums put into their bank accounts. After Clayman the band became a business - whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on your perception I suppose.

 

[krofius]

To be honest, I'm not sure writing these types of songs is a positive move business wise for In Flames.

I don't see how they gain any new fans with music like this. As A88 said, there are dozens of bands doing it far better already. I don't know why In Flames they can force themselves into this market with lazy songwriting and sub-par vocals. They were able to break into the nu-metal market in the early-mid 2000's because the entire genre is based on lazy songwriting and shitty vocals. Their attempts to move into more general rock music will fail because as a name they aren't big enough and as song writers they have simply become too lazy and complacent.

Their other problem is that whilst their new album is (imo) unlikely to bring in many new fans, it will turn plenty of current fans off. The reaction I've seen on various sites for Rusted Nail has been overwhelmingly negative. Even "nu" In Flames fans are bemoaning their lack of creativity. They've already alienated the majority of their older fanbase, if they start losing the nu-metal fanbase they built up in the mid-2000's it may be a death knell for the band because I cannot see a new surge of people wanting to listen to Anders mumble over some half-assed riffing, no matter how catchy the chorus lines are.

You're writing that as if it's a business decision to write any of their albums a certain way. I'm baffled if you really think they write the album and think about how many fans they will gain or lose. Trust me, they don't give a shit, not even close. And the reactions for all of their last 3 albums have been overwhelmingly bad. Don't you remember when Deliver Us came out?
I just checked out the Rusted Nail video again, and if you read the comments it may seem like it's 50/50 with people who hate it and people who like it, but it's just a vocal minority. Just check the likes and you'll see, it's 85/15.
You say that their ''attempt to move into the general rock music'', you really think they are attempting that? It's quite obvious that they just keep writing whatever they want, of course they still have to have to somewhat keep their sound, but they want to push the envelopes, so why shouldn't they? You act as if they write two slower ballad-ish songs on this album not because they want to, but because they are trying to appeal to a new group of people and therefor earn more money? You have to be fucking joking.

You may hate the new direction and think it's uncreative shit, but at least they write whatever they want and some people love it some people hate it and have hated it for many years now. You should just keep to the old stuff, you obviously don't like them anymore (nothing wrong with that at all btw).

They can pull off their old stuff live but that's hardly a surprise as they've played most of those songs a million times anyway. It's very different to creating new material though. Personally I don't think they have the desire or the guile to write material in any way close to the 1996-2000 period.

I have some theories as to why they get so offended by fans asking for older material, but no matter what the explanation it is a bizarre stance to take. It's almost like they're ashamed of the material that put them in a position to crack the nu-metal/alternative/emo/scene kid market in the first place.

To be proud of garbage like ASOP and yet seemingly be embarrassed by TJR or Whoracle is beyond ridiculous but does show that the band is nowadays motivated by and indeed only values the cash albums put into their bank accounts. After Clayman the band became a business - whether that's a good or a bad thing depends on your perception I suppose.

Not really true. Anders has said so many times TJR is the most special record to him, and especially Dead Eternity, because it was the first song he ever did vocals on for In Flames. But they've also said that back then they literally just put stuff that they thought sounded cool together with no thoughts of how it would sound live if they were to perform it.

This is a kind of cool interview about IF's all albums with Anders from 2012 or 2013.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4rmZKFA2c8

 

[DE4life]

If you want to know the truth about In Flames' motivations and their love for their older albums, you only have to look at their setlists and their disparaging reactions to those who really do love their older work. Playing The Hive a thousand times to throw a bone to the older fans isn't enough for me. If Anders loves TJR so much why the fuck is the album reduced to some half-assed medley on most shows?

And yes, I very much believe In Flames decided to go down the business route as opposed to musical integrity. I'm not saying it's the right or wrong thing to do - they need to provide for their families and if they don't have to work any other job then good for them, right?

A88's quote in my sig sums it up for me. Both STYE and ASOP is not the work of a band that's putting any real effort into their music, but focusing very keenly on trends and popularity within their sphere of music. It's nice to hold onto the idealistic notion that the band are musicians playing what their hearts tell them to play, but in the real world that doesn't happen. They wouldn't be where they are today if that were true, they'd be where the likes of Dark Tranquillity are.

 

[only4theweak187]

You both make great points and have well thought out ideas and theories.

We all know at this point that they can't really play TJR and most Whoracle songs live realistically. I was just saying at least they haven't fully abandoned the great shit.

But to discount almost every live hit from Colony and Clayman to never play it again is ridiculous.

DE4life also made a great point about them playing The Hive literally EVERY headline set for the last several years as if that was just a "gift" with them saying "Alright alright fine we'll give you this, happy?" to the older fans. Why not be proud of the amazing, innovative and well-loved unique metal they made? I just don't get it.



I personally wouldn't mind this thrown in to the mix more often


I just am tired of setlists filled with 60-70% "new" stuff when it could easily be one third, with instead a majority of songs played live being the amazing shit that people loved the most about them like most metal bands do when touring a new album.

 

[Jester313]

Regardless of my stance on all this, I really don't believe the whole "we have to rework the older songs to play them live" thing because they clearly played them live before many times. Right? So, it just has to be they are tired of playing them. This might have all been said before but I'm tired and can't remember.

 

[A88]

It's nice to hold onto the idealistic notion that the band are musicians playing what their hearts tell them to play, but in the real world that doesn't happen. They wouldn't be where they are today if that were true, they'd be where the likes of Dark Tranquillity are.

Now there's a band with integrity. They change, they sometimes miss, but ultimately it is fresh and it is good music. And I don't really see people bitching about them doing another Gallery or using less clean vocals and electronics. Why? Because they don't insult our intelligence trying to sell simple commercial teenage emo wannabe shit as some progressive, mature music.

In Flames and Soilwork on the other hand...

Just compare Rusted Nail and Uniformity.

Regardless of my stance on all this, I really don't believe the whole "we have to rework the older songs to play them live" thing because they clearly played them live before many times. Right? So, it just has to be they are tired of playing them. This might have all been said before but I'm tired and can't remember.

+1

Older songs are quite easy to play live. And much more effective than most of the new stuff. So it's just a poor excuse.

Hey, but why concentrate on doing harmonies and acoustics properly, when you can stand and chugg basic chords through the whole set...

Opeth, Arch Enemy, Dark Tranquillity... seem to have no problem with playing similar or more complex music live.

 

[krofius]

I think about the The Hive and why they've played it a lot is because it's an old IF song that somewhat became an staple. But it definitely doesn't get the same crowd reaction as Cloud Connected for example. But it's enough for them to play it. And they don't consider it and gift and don't want to play it, didn't you heard Anders the whole tour when he introduced the song?

''If you don't know this song you don't know anything about In Flames''
He said that and similar stuff at least 15 times.

 

[krofius]

Now there's a band with integrity. They change, they sometimes miss, but ultimately it is fresh and it is good music. And I don't really see people bitching about them doing another Gallery or using less clean vocals and electronics. Why? Because they don't insult our intelligence trying to sell simple commercial teenage emo wannabe shit as some progressive, mature music.

In Flames and Soilwork on the other hand...

Just compare Rusted Nail and Uniformity.

Soilwork? Who just released one of if not their best (double)album of their career last year?

And just because you like Construct by DT doesn't mean it has integrity and is creative. I think Construct is by FAR their worst album, followed by We Are The Void. DT has also almost completely abandoned their older Gallery/Minds I style. They also moved on around the millenia and started a new path of music, don't try to deny that.

The industrial style and lack of (good)riffs on Construct doesn't appeal to me, there's a few good songs though. Immemorial is the best one. Mikael's vocals has become very stale and monotone to my ears. His 20years of the exact same raspy scream/growl is getting boring. His cleans on ''State of Trust'' is pretty awesome though I must say.

And there isn't that many people bitching about them doing another Gallery because the difference between DT and IF fans is that the old DT fans don't stay around for 15 years screaming for them to go back to the old sound, they actually move on, unlike all the IF ''fans''

 

[A88]

Soilwork? Who just released one of if not their best (double)album of their career last year?

That (double) album is better than some in SW career, but it is still mediocre. Very slim replay value.

And just because you like Construct by DT doesn't mean it has integrity and is creative. I think Construct is by FAR their worst album, followed by We Are The Void. DT has also almost completely abandoned their older Gallery/Minds I style. They also moved on around the millenia and started a new path of music, don't try to deny that.

The industrial style and lack of (good)riffs on Construct doesn't appeal to me, there's a few good songs though. Immemorial is the best one. Mikael's vocals has become very stale and monotone to my ears. His 20years of the exact same raspy scream/growl is getting boring. His cleans on ''State of Trust'' is pretty awesome though I must say.

My whole point WAS that DT moved on and started a new path of music. It's a bit hit and miss, but it is usually good. I may not be the greatest fan of this industrial style, but I get it.

Also, bitching about "lack of good riffs" while praising newer IF albums is hilarious.

Mikaels vocals are not the same last 20 years, and at least he found growl and clean vocals he's comfortable with. Can you say that about Anders?

Come on man, we all understand you like them whatever they do, but you're not deaf, are you?

Bunch of 40 y.o. dudes doing teenage whiny pop-metal.

And there isn't that many people bitching about them doing another Gallery because the difference between DT and IF fans is that the old DT fans don't stay around for 15 years screaming for them to go back to the old sound, they actually move on, unlike all the IF ''fans''

Well, at least you are a true fan.

 

[shad0w__]

@A88 calling In flames new music as more simple, more straightforward, more pop, less metal etc I understand. Calling it "whiny teenage" is delusional. If anything, through the evolution of their music you can tell that they are getting older and more mature. Why is singing about moonshields and artifacts of black rain more mature, sophisticated and less teenage than rusted nail or through oblivion (and by the way I love everything pre-clayman and it was moonshield and artifacts that got me into in flames in the first place). You're overeacting dude.

I dont like ASOP or STYE at all but love SOAPF, its not metal but its fresh and more interesting than anything DT or SW did over the past 6-7 years in my opinion. I've come in terms that we wont get a Colony, JR part two but at least hope the new album is in par with SOAPF.

 

[A88]

Why is singing about moonshields and artifacts of black rain more mature, sophisticated and less teenage than rusted nail or through oblivion

It's not.

I dont like ASOP or STYE at all but love SOAPF, its not metal but its fresh and more interesting than anything DT or SW did over the past 6-7 years in my opinion. I've come in terms that we wont get a Colony, JR part two but at least hope the new album is in par with SOAPF.

I agree on SOAPF. Decent album with a few good songs.

But so far, SC sounds like SOAPF gone terribly wrong.

 

[DE4life]

SOAPF was a great album, in my view. I thoroughly enjoyed most of it (All for Me excepted) and was pleasantly surprised after the abomination that was ASOP.

There is no logical reason for me not to register my displeasure over the band taking many steps backwards with their latest efforts. As A88 alluded to above, it's more like they're releasing b-tracks that weren't good enough for the last album. The three leaked/released songs are so far more reminiscent of ASOP than SOAPF, and for a lot of people brought back into the fold by SOAPF that is a massive concern.

I've always been willing to give In Flames a chance, but I won't hold back if I think they're releasing sub-par material and so far the three songs off Siren Charms are all in that category. In contrast, I'd class All For Me as the only sub-par track on the entirety of SOAPF. The rest of the songs range from good to great, even Deliver Us and Liberation. It isn't about blindly hating the band because I'm "tr00000 metal" ... it's about judging them fairly and consistently based on their abilities as songwriters, rather than relentlessly giving a positive spin on everything they release.

 

[krofius]

That (double) album is better than some in SW career, but it is still mediocre. Very slim replay value.



My whole point WAS that DT moved on and started a new path of music. It's a bit hit and miss, but it is usually good. I may not be the greatest fan of this industrial style, but I get it.

Also, bitching about "lack of good riffs" while praising newer IF albums is hilarious.

Mikaels vocals are not the same last 20 years, and at least he found growl and clean vocals he's comfortable with. Can you say that about Anders?

Come on man, we all understand you like them whatever they do, but you're not deaf, are you?

Bunch of 40 y.o. dudes doing teenage whiny pop-metal.



Well, at least you are a true fan.

The problem you seem to have is Anders vocals not the actual music, not to the same extent at least. All of In Flames records have been guitar driven. There's super many good riffs IMO on ASOP & SOAPF. Fear is the Weakness is probably the best example in my eyes.

Construct is not really guitar driven it's more keyboard and atmosphere, and it's mostly the same or a similar repetitive chug riff found throughout many songs on the album. And it's not about being comfortable with his vocals, it's about it being repetitive. Depends on the band though. Gojira, one of my favorite bands, has had the same vocals all the time though but it doesn't bore me.

And trust me, Anders is more than content with his vocals, otherwise he wouldn't try new stuff each album and try to improve his vocals (in his opinion).

And I would say Mikaels vocals IS basically the same. He didn't use his death growl a lot in in the old days, but his raspy scream is 95% the same. Just compare Construct and Lunar Strain. Obviously there's a slight difference because he's aged 20 years and your voice doesn't stay the exact same pitch, but the screaming technique is the exact same. But his cleans have improved indeed, his cleans are awesome.

I see you hate ASOP a lot but I don't really understand why unless it's because you absolutely despise the vocals, cause there's awesome melodic guitar riffs in almost all songs. How can you not dig the guitars in the chorus of The Mirrors Truth for example? Or the tremolo riff in Sober & Irrelevants chorus? And the song Tilt has old-school IF riffs in at least half the song.

Their ability to create solid catchy riffs whether it be the intro of Jotun or Drenched in Fear doesn't matter. That's what got me into IF in the first place.

 

[A88]

SOAPF... I thoroughly enjoyed most of it (All for Me excepted) and was pleasantly surprised after the abomination that was ASOP.

A New Dawn (with heavier guitar sound and better chorus) would probably rate as strongest IF song released post-Clayman.

Few good riffs, great melodies, enough time to develop ideas into something great and dramatic. Not to mention cool orchestral parts.

In total contrast to usual "let get to chorus as soon as possible" songwriting IF does these days.

As I remember, I was even one of the guys who liked Liberation the most. Nice little pop-rock song, passable vocals by Anders, good solo, long calm section in the end.

So it's not like I'm shiting all over everything that isn't Jotun v.2.

it's about judging them fairly and consistently based on their abilities as songwriters, rather than relentlessly giving a positive spin on everything they release.

My thoughts exactly.

My sweet forum crew wrote good piece on this subject.

 

[DE4life]

The problem you seem to have is Anders vocals not the actual music, not to the same extent at least. All of In Flames records have been guitar driven.

This is completely incorrect. Their albums up until Reroute to Remain were guitar-driven, but from R2R onwards the vocal melodies took centre stage and nothing has changed since then. Every so often the guitars get a chance to shine, but by and large the songs In Flames produce are now driven by vocal melodies, particularly in the chorus sections.

Anders becoming the main element of the music, with the guitars taking a back seat, is a HUGE part of the reason a lot of older fans abandoned the group. In Flames still have guitar melodies but to suggest any of their post-Clayman albums are driven by them is nonsense. Most of the verses consist of nothing more than chugga-chugga riffs with the vocals attempting to make up the rest of the melody.