Is it just me or does a large majority of black metal suck?

[CiG]

Phil is cool, he's actually a better singer...he had an incredible range in the late 80s into the early 90s and I personally enjoy his later vocals as well even though many don't. Glaze is great as well, no need to turn it into a competition

He might technically be a better singer but aesthetically I much prefer Glaze.

Anselmo had one of the best vocal performances in metal on Cowboys from Hell tbh

Yeah, agreed.

Oof.

I just can't get into him.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

trolling right? Your ears can't possibly be that broken.

Djent is riff-based, black metal largely is not. It's self-evident that that particular Liturgy song will have better riffs than most black metal.

 

[TechnicalBarbarity]

Djent is riff-based, black metal largely is not. It's self-evident that that particular Liturgy song will have better riffs than most black metal.

but that particular Liturgy song had zero good riffs.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It was an OK riff. Didn't need to repeat for 7 minutes straight but on its own merits, it was acceptable. Don't think I've ever heard a good DSBM riff.

 

[Krow]

DSBM was never supposed to be riffy was it? I mean they’re not Megiddo.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

DSBM was never supposed to be riffy was it? I mean they’re not Megiddo.

So you agree then?

 

[Krow]

So you agree then?

That DSBM is riffless sadboy music for corpsepainted fedoras? Yes.

If you mean the Liturgy thing I have no desire to listen to that and I won’t pretend.

 

[Onder]

Don't think I've ever heard a good DSBM riff.

It's ok I've never heard a good growl in a piano sonata, never ate a good hamburger in Starbucks either.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

It's ok I've never heard a good growl in a piano sonata, never ate a good hamburger in Starbucks either.

To repeat: so you agree with my original statement?

 

[CiG]

Liturgy song will have better riffs than most black metal.

Don't think I've ever heard a good DSBM riff.

DSBM was never supposed to be riffy was it? I mean they’re not Megiddo.

So you agree then?

It's ok I've never heard a good growl in a piano sonata, never ate a good hamburger in Starbucks either.

To repeat: so you agree with my original statement?

Your initial statement was "most black metal" and then you switched it to DSBM which isn't even a subgenre with a focus on riffs, at all really.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

DSBM makes up a significant chunk of black metal. Atmospheric black metal is no riffier. Those two alone probably account for at least a third of all full black metal (e.g. no black/thrash obviously), if not closer to a half. Symphonic black metal is a little riffier, but far from consistent. Let's imagine that 90% of sympho and folk black is worse riff-wise than that Liturgy song. Now we're looking at around two-thirds of all black metal accounted for, and about 95% of it is automatically inferior riff-wise. What remains? You have canonical second-wave clones; certainly some would beat Liturgy, but many would not, trudging endlessly through a million minor Transylvanian Hunger copycats. I'll be generous and say that only two-thirds of those bands are worse than Liturgy, and guesstimate that they make up approximately a quarter of all black metal. Of the remaining sub-10% of black metal exist a minority of blackgaze (nearly riffless), "Hellenic black metal" (aka how to repeat two Manowar/Bathory riffs forever), tech-black (riffy but rare), and probably some other shit I'm forgetting. Add it all up and my 90% figure was probably slightly hyperbolic, but it comes out to about 85% which is still close.

 

[CiG]

DSBM makes up a significant chunk of black metal.

Significant just means it's a big enough subgenre to be noteworthy on some level, hardly comparable to a statement about most of black metal.

Atmospheric black metal is no riffier. Those two alone probably account for at least a third of all full black metal (e.g. no black/thrash obviously), if not closer to a half.

Add it all up and my 90% figure was probably slightly hyperbolic, but it comes out to about 85% which is still close.

Fuck off autist, you're just making up % and extrapolating your argument from it. Actually do the maths or end it here.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

 

[CiG]

Also why does black/thrash not count?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Also why does black/thrash not count?

Because most of it is just thrash metal with harsh production, shrieked vocals, and extra bulletbelts.

 

[CiG]

Because most of it is just thrash metal with harsh production, shrieked vocals, and extra bulletbelts.

Would death/thrash count if we were talking about the quality of all death metal?

Edit: also, does black/death count (aka war metal) if we're talking about all black metal?

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Would death/thrash count if we were talking about the quality of all death metal?

Would it count as what, death or thrash metal? Depends on the ratio of death/thrash. With black/thrash it's almost always clear-cut: they're bands that use mostly thrash metal riffs with a black metal aesthetic. If it makes things simpler, define "black metal" as "second-wave black metal and the bands/sub-genres directly derived from it", which is by far the predominant form relative to retro acts and the original first-wave bands.

 

[CiG]

So a thrash riff disqualifies the band as being black metal, but a folk riff, a post-punk riff or a literal non-riff doesn't disqualify those bands from being black metal?

This is the most retarded self-serving faggot argument you've ever made.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

So a thrash riff disqualifies the band as being black metal, but a folk riff, a post-punk riff or a literal non-riff doesn't disqualify those bands from being black metal?

This is the most retarded self-serving faggot argument you've ever made.

Not a single thrash riff, but if all you can provide are thrash riffs to prove that black metal has better riffing than the previously-mentioned Liturgy song, it doesn't say much. It's like Harvard telling the world that female POCs can be professors too and using Elizabeth Warren as an example. Post a black/thrash song or two that you're thinking of.

If you're referring to black metal bands that frequently don't even play metal riffs, e.g. Summoning or Wold or whatever, then feel free to exclude them. I think my estimate would still win out, but keep in mind you're excluding bands that many black metal fans do accept.

 

[CiG]

Your premise is all black metal though, and this is the issue. You're trying to make a statement about all black metal while excluding black metal offshoots that don't support your point. If you included war metal and black/thrash the whole genre's riff-game explodes, by that same notion if you exclude bands with basically no riffs/non-metal riffs your point weakens.

If you're referring to black metal bands that frequently don't even play metal riffs, e.g. Summoning or Wold or whatever, then feel free to exclude them. I think my estimate would still win out, but keep in mind you're excluding bands that many black metal fans do accept.

Black metal fans also largely accept black/thrash as black metal. So we're either accepting all black metal as per the black metal community's considerations or we accept a non-black metal fan's standards of what is or isn't black metal and you have a strong argument (if your random ass % of how the genre breaks down are to be trusted, which I don't but whatevs).

Edit:

Not a single thrash riff, but if all you can provide are thrash riffs to prove that black metal has better riffing than the previously-mentioned Liturgy song, it doesn't say much.

I'm saying a black/thrash band's thrash riffs IYO disqualifies them as being a black metal band, which is inconsistent with your standards because you then go on to accept a band with folk riffs or post-punk riffs as black metal, and even bands with no riffs as black metal.

Now you're shifting the goalposts by saying "well black metal fans accept these bands as black metal" as if they don't also accept black/thrash bands as black metal. It's nonsensical.