Learning Swedish?

[Gaunerin]

don't wanna dispirit you, but those were just basics. "real" linguistics is far more complicated. especially when it comes to syntax or semantics.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Liguistics on the other hand is a vast field anyway. I'm afraid I only have a very general interest in all kinds of subjects that fall under category "linguistics" (etymology being an example).
Since you seem to be in your element here I'd like to seize the chance and ask whether you know the book "Abenteuer Sprache" by Störing? I have this chaotic pile of various notes (Zettelwirtschaft, whatever that translates to) with numerous booktitles I want to check out one day....one of which is one I just mentioned. Just wondering if you happen to know it and can recommend it.

I don't know that much about it but I suppose that was kinda "cool" back then, like writing "cuz" instead of "cause" today!

Now that's an awesome theory

 

[Thidrek]

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Liguistics on the other hand is a vast field anyway. I'm afraid I only have a very general interest in all kinds of subjects that fall under category "linguistics" (etymology being an example).
Since you seem to be in your element here I'd like to seize the chance and ask whether you know the book "Abenteuer Sprache" by Störing? I have this chaotic pile of various notes (Zettelwirtschaft, whatever that translates to) with numerous booktitles I want to check out one day....one of which is one I just mentioned. Just wondering if you happen to know it and can recommend it.

Sorry, I don't know that book. I don't wanna sound snobbish, but I usually don't read popular science.
But the description of that book on amazon reminds me of "Die wunderbare Welt der Sprachen" by Berlitz. Yes, THE Berlitz from the institute. It's a bit older but still very interesting and first of all fun to read!

 

[Defiance]

Again, the situation is not easy to explain, being something 200 years long lasting (again I suggest you to look for questione meridionale where you'll surely find also something about your spanish "forefathers"), you're supposed to be a teacher so you should know that some matters cannot be explained in one page......, about your girlfriend complaining, it's also the other way around so I don't see all this bitching about southerns, that's how the world goes, a New Yorker will call redneck a guy from southern, and a southern would label a New Yorker as a snotty, she should be more open minded, for her sake....

Really, it's like you don't read posts. See if I care.

don't wanna dispirit you, but those were just basics. "real" linguistics is far more complicated. especially when it comes to syntax or semantics.

but for me, linguistics is the most beautiful science in the world. it unites almost every other scientific discipline: the humanities, mathematics, psychology, physics, informatics, medicine, history, ethnology, etc.

Hey that's not so difficult IMO, what's more difficult and I believe more important is Sociolinguistics and Pragmatics .

 

[Defiance]

Sorry, I don't know that book. I don't wanna sound snobbish, but I usually don't read popular science.
But the description of that book on amazon reminds me of "Die wunderbare Welt der Sprachen" by Berlitz. Yes, THE Berlitz from the institute. It's a bit older but still very interesting and first of all fun to read!

Do you know if there's an English version of that?

This one is also great, [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Major-Languages-Bernard-Comrie/dp/0195065115/ref=pd_cp_b_0?pf_rd_p=413864201&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0415353394&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=16QXF8ZQM6XM57FX6P4H"]The World's Major Languages by Bernard Comrie[/ame] . Hey will you look at that, there's a new second edition! $200 worth, damn hope it goes down hehe. Here's the [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Worlds-Major-Languages-Bernard-Comrie/dp/0195065115/ref=pd_cp_b_0?pf_rd_p=413864201&pf_rd_s=center-41&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=0415353394&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=16QXF8ZQM6XM57FX6P4H"]other edition[/ame]. I think that's a great reference book, it's not one that you would read in it's entirety, but more like one which you'll use as reference for learning about certain languages.

I really recommend that book to you Lefay82 and Gaunerin!

 

[Mantis]

Really, it's like you don't read posts. See if I care.

whatever....

 

[Mantis]

Oh, "th" did not represent one or both of the English "th"-sounds [θ, ð] as in Old Norse. Those disappeared in the early 8th century, afaik. I don't really know, why they did that back then. Maybe just a habit. Or perhaps it should mark where there is a "d" instead in the North German dialects.
In the past there where really strange developements in German orthography. For example the so-called "barocke Konsonantenhäufung" (baroque consonant accumulation) with doubled consonants at unusual positions, like in "starck" instead of "stark". I don't know that much about it but I suppose that was kinda "cool" back then, like writing "cuz" instead of "cause" today!

Ah ok, so when I see for example in Buerger's poems "das Thor" instead of "das Tor" this doesn't mean an early stadium of German language but a reprise of an old-fashioned way of writing, and then how is the pronunciation of "th"? like "d"?
About "barocke Konsonantenhäufung" as I'm really interested in comparative linguistic it's the same used in '700 English just like Magick ? (but the other way around being modern magic)

 

[Thidrek]

Hey that's not so difficult IMO, what's more difficult and I believe more important is Sociolinguistics and Pragmatics .

You think so? That's at least something concrete. But I'm not that far, yet... ^^'

Do you know if there's an English version of that?

Sorry, I don't think so. Berlitz was a German linguist and that book was not the most successful, so I doubt there is any translation.

Ah ok, so when I see for example in Buerger's poems "das Thor" instead of "das Tor" this doesn't mean an early stadium of German language but a reprise of an old-fashioned way of writing, and then how is the pronunciation of "th"? like "d"?
About "barocke Konsonantenhäufung" as I'm really interested in comparative linguistic it's the same used in '700 English just like Magick ? (but the other way around being modern magic)

Oh, it seems I have baffled you slightly. So: No, you just read it like "t". Forget the thing with the "d"

There is no such a thing in English. "magick" at least makes sense, since a double consonant in Germanic spellings usually shortens the predecent vowel but in "starck" there is nothing to be shortened. You can still see that phenomenon in many surnames: Stauffenberg, Herff, Dorff, etc.

 

[Bon]

It's interesting anyway that in Italy the dialects are so damn different, that some even are considered to be languages of their own.

I think that is because Italy was unified not so long ago, less than 200 years ago, and the different parts were under different dominations, and had their own cultures, lifestyle, and languages of course. So we still have those big differences that are slowly going away becuase of school, television and more communications between the people. I live in the extreme north of Italy, just above Swiss (Schweiz, Switzerland or CH) and our lifestyle and work ethic is much more similar to Swiss people than to average italian people. And yes, we have our own dialect (or to be correct, many different dialetcs, I live in a valley and people that come from one side of it speaks really different from the one that lives in front of them, even if they are separeted by only a few km).
Speaking about the differences in development between north and south.. if I remember correctly from history studies, when Italy unified the government decided to invest money in the development of the north because it was already more developed than the south, it had more resources and was closer to other big countries (Germany and France). The idea was that once the north was developed some part of the money gained were to be used to develop the south. But in the meantime the south was poor and with many problems so mafia and other form of organized crime start to develop and when the government started to give money also to the south those organization were already too strong...and in fact took the money for them.

 

[Defiance]

You think so? That's at least something concrete. But I'm not that far, yet... ^^'

Sorry, I don't think so. Berlitz was a German linguist and that book was not the most successful, so I doubt there is any translation.

Ah ok .

Ja, ich habe das Buch auf Amazon gefunden, aber das kostet $88 , zu Teuer.

 

[Thidrek]

Ah ok .

Ja, ich habe das Buch auf Amazon gefunden, aber das kostet $88 , zu Teuer.

Probier's mal beim deutschen Amazon bei den Shops.
http://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listi...0?ie=UTF8&qid=1232041841&sr=8-2&condition=all

~1,50€ ist selbst mit Versand verträglich!

that book is kinda funny. it, for instance, explains that the chinese kanji symbol for "married" shows "woman and pig under a roof"

 

[Defiance]

Probier's mal beim deutschen Amazon bei den Shops.
http://www.amazon.de/gp/offer-listi...0?ie=UTF8&qid=1232041841&sr=8-2&condition=all

~1,50€ ist selbst mit Versand verträglich!

that book is kinda funny. it, for instance, explains that the chinese kanji symbol for "married" shows "woman and pig under a roof"

It's a pair of Kanjis, and the Chinese one is different from the Japanese one actually.

Chinese: 已婚

Japanese: 結婚 した (kekkon shita）

The common Kanji is the second one.

The "kon" part has three Kanjis:　氏 + 日 + 女 .　From left to right, the Kanji 女 (onna) is the symbol for woman (my profs. told me it was a woman holding a baby in her arms, but to me it looks like a vagina). The bottom left symbol in kon is the one for day 日 (hi) and the one above it is 氏 (shi, uji, -uji), which means "courtesy title" or "family name." e.g.: 田中氏 (Tanakashi, Mr.Tanaka).

I looked up pig (uma ( 豚 ), Chinese &#29482, but there literally isn't a stroke that is the same with the exception of "hi," which is Chinese "白天."

So the book is wrong hehe, I really don't see the relationship. It may be a cultural thing, so I'd have to ask a Chinese/Japanese about that.


Und Vielen dank für ihre Hilfe! (ein bischen billiger, ja? ).

 

[Mantis]

Oh, it seems I have baffled you slightly. So: No, you just read it like "t". Forget the thing with the "d"

There is no such a thing in English. "magick" at least makes sense, since a double consonant in Germanic spellings usually shortens the predecent vowel but in "starck" there is nothing to be shortened. You can still see that phenomenon in many surnames: Stauffenberg, Herff, Dorff, etc.

Yeah the example I took was not so fit (being a made-up word by Aleister I just wiki it), what about archaic swedish for ex. blifven => bliven? something we can compare?

 

[Thidrek]

It's a pair of Kanjis, and the Chinese one is different from the Japanese one actually.

Chinese: 已婚

Japanese: 結婚 した (kekkon shita）

The common Kanji is the second one.

The "kon" part has three Kanjis:　氏 + 日 + 女 .　From left to right, the Kanji 女 (onna) is the symbol for woman (my profs. told me it was a woman holding a baby in her arms, but to me it looks like a vagina). The bottom left symbol in kon is the one for day 日 (hi) and the one above it is 氏 (shi, uji, -uji), which means "courtesy title" or "family name." e.g.: 田中氏 (Tanakashi, Mr.Tanaka).

I looked up pig (uma ( 豚 ), Chinese &#29482, but there literally isn't a stroke that is the same with the exception of "hi," which is Chinese "白天."

So the book is wrong hehe, I really don't see the relationship. It may be a cultural thing, so I'd have to ask a Chinese/Japanese about that.


Und Vielen dank für ihre Hilfe! (ein bischen billiger, ja? ).

It's a while ago since i've read that book but that chapter was probably about the ancient chinese writing. Those where mere images. Take a look on this page. Unfortunately it does not list "married". But "quarrel": Two women

Yeah the example I took was not so fit (being a made-up word by Aleister I just wiki it), what about archaic swedish for ex. blifven => bliven? something we can compare?

I always wondered about this "-fv-" thingy. Unfortunately there are only few sources for Swedish linguistics on the web. Sorry, I really cannot answer. Maybe one of our Swedish forum members is able to tell us ^^

 

[lefay82]

i've found some old words in some swedish lyrics, i wonder why the ending O got lost in past tenses:
sovo = sov
togo = tog
kommo = kom
stego = steg
can anyone explain it?

 

[Mantis]

I always wondered about this "-fv-" thingy. Unfortunately there are only few sources for Swedish linguistics on the web. Sorry, I really cannot answer. Maybe one of our Swedish forum members is able to tell us ^^

Funny how in some dialect you got also "bliffen", like the German surname case you mentioned...

 

[Mantis]

i've found some old words in some swedish lyrics, i wonder why the ending O got lost in past tenses:
sovo = sov
togo = tog
kommo = kom
stego = steg
can anyone explain it?

Also "gingo" in Otyg's lyric btw just an idea, maybe because there was no more need of dstinguish singular from plural having always a personal pronoun before the verb? or maybe it dropped like happened with "e" from middle english to modern english (middle english greene => modern green)

 

[lefay82]

Also "gingo" in Otyg's lyric btw just an idea, maybe because there was no more need of dstinguish singular from plural having always a personal pronoun before the verb? or maybe it dropped like happened with "e" from middle english to modern english (middle english greene => modern green)

yes, also gingo, but it changed in gick (if i'm right), so i haven't mentioned it as example....

 

[Gaunerin]

I always wondered about this "-fv-" thingy. Unfortunately there are only few sources for Swedish linguistics on the web. Sorry, I really cannot answer.

You know Swedish if I am not mistaken? Then maybe you'd like to read an article from språkvården (now språkrådet) about the "Rechtschreibreform"/stavningsreform (what's the english word for that if there is one?): http://www.sprakradet.se/sprakvard2-2006 (pdf-file) The article I am talking about starts on page 17, the chapter on "fv" on page 21.

 

[Disgustipated]

"Rechtschreibreform"/stavningsreform (what's the english word for that if there is one?)

Spelling reform.

 

[Thidrek]

the "-o" did not only follow the past tense but also the present as for example in "äro" (am, is, are).

@Gaunerin: Yes, I know some Swedish. Thanks alot for the link!