Official GMD Photo/Social Thread

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Dave, you should check out Deep Puddle Dynamics. Really cool - kind of "dark" feeling rap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_Puddle_Dynamics

will do, I listen to mostly aggressive hip hop like outerspace, jedi mind tricks, and wu tang clan. Been meaning to check out other forms of the genre.

 

[Hubster]

Why do they have to come up with such retarded clothing for models to wear in photo shoots? Just photograph her in the bikini for christ's sake.

NO! I like her the way she is in that shot! Damn she's hawt

 

[zabu of nΩd]

NO! I like her the way she is in that shot! Damn she's hawt

The fact that she's wearing these random disembodied sleeves from a pimp outfit severely detracts from the hotness of that photo, I'm afraid.

 

[Susperia]

Calm down there. On the protein/vitamin deficiency question, this is something I typically hear when vegetarianism is discussed (including by vegetarians themselves), so I figured there was some significance to it. I mentioned cereal, by the way, because it's not just plant matter - the manufacturers put tons of extra vitamins and shit in it, thus it could conceivably take the place of various meat/dairy foods.

From my understanding, most vegans have to plan their diet somewhat carefully to avoid vitamin deficiencies - hence the popularity of stuff like tofu, tempeh, and soymilk among vegans. I've read that vitamin B12 is particularly hard to find, and that a lot of soymilk distributors actually put extra B12 in their products.

My point is that you don't become vegan simply by going out into a pasture and chewing grass. If humans were actually herbivores, it shouldn't be as hard as it is to find an adequate plant diet.

Okay, I thought you knew more about what we're talking about but I guess not... I'll try to make this clear.

We've been hunters, gatherers (i.e. picking up plant foods to bring home) and farmers since the dawn of man.

How is finding plants to eat a difficult thing to do? It's hell of a lot easier than finding and killing animals. At least in the context of early man. Hunting was a lot of work, but they did it because one buffalo could feed half the village, it was efficient, and they didn't waste anything.

Humans don't eat grass moron. However, that doesn't mean we aren't herbivores by nature. I've said over and over our bodies are designed like that of an herbivore, and I really didn't think it was that hard to see.

I've used this example a million times on this board but it's an easy one: look at the shape of a humans small intestine and colon, then look at a carnivores. Humans intestines are extremely long, bunched up and have tons of curves and crevices for things to get stuck in. They require lots of fiber to keep things moving so things don't get stuck. A carnivores intestines are straight and short. No bunches, no crevices for things to get stuck in. Meat passes through easily for them, unlike us. Perhaps you've heard about how the steak you ate 5 years ago there are still pieces of it in your intestines, waiting to finally be flushed out.

This is why athletes and body builders go on fasts yearly---to help their systems flush out.

I hope that was easy for you to understand. As I said i've been a vegan for 9 years so I know a lot on the subject, you can ask me anything you want. I've never had a problem with getting enough protein, iron, b12, anything. And a lot of what you're hearing about vegans missing stuff is usually in their heads because we are so scared we're not getting enough protein, etc. Sometimes I convince myself I'm iron deficient and feel so tired I go and get a blood exam and it turns out just fine! And then I feel better because I realize it was all in my head. This happens to vegans/vegetarians all the time, because we are constantly being told we must be deficient. Mind over matter is a very powerful thing.

Regarding B12: It's a bacteria that is found in soil. It's no longer found on vegetables or fruit in commercial stores because of how we wash our produce these days, and wax it, etc. Meat eaters only get it because they eat flesh that already has it stored in it. Vegans have trouble only because our vegetables are washed off of all the soil that at one point would still be somewhat on them. b12 is incredibly easy to get in either nutritional yeast, soymilks (like you said) and as a supplement. You only need the minutest amount (like 50 mgs can last you months). Not only that but our bodies store B12 (thats why you can get it through eating meat) so because we always have a store of it it's very unlikely that you would be deficient in it. Deficiencies in B12 are incredibly rare.

 

[Killbot]

 

[You Fools]

So why not eat meat? I am not trying to be awkward but that still does'nt tell me that it's a bad thing. To be honest it sounds 'preachy'.
Vegtable Evangelist.

 

[Hammer of Might]

Vegevangelist :Smug:

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

This is why athletes and body builders go on fasts yearly---to help their systems flush out.

who the fuck told you this? I have never heard anything even close to that

 

[genocide roach]

who the fuck told you this? I have never heard anything even close to that

i have. alot of the gym nuts in the military do it. they fast and drink this cleansing stuff for a couple weeks.
~gR~

 

[Susperia]

I said clearly on the last page or so that I find nothing wrong with eating meat.

What I find wrong is how we raise our livestock these days. Have you ever heard the term "factory farm"? We don't raise our animals on farms anymore. They are raised in factories.

If you want to know more about the subject (which I think everyone should especially if they want to partake in eating meat in America today), please read :

Sue Coe: Dead Meat
And incredible artist/illustrator, she's disguised herself many times in order to get inside slaughterhouses and factory farms to document what she sees through writing, drawing and painting, due to there being no cameras allowed within these places (gee I wonder why!)


Karin Davis: Prisoned Chickens Poisoned Eggs: An Inside Look at the Modern Poultry Industry
Battery Hens are probably the most inhumanely treated animal of all, even moreso than veal.

John Robbins: Diet For a New America
He's probably a little too gentle for the majority here. Sometimes he even makes me wince with how gentle and sentimental he is, however, this is the book that changed my life. It is incredibly comphrehensive. However, it was written in 1987 and might be a little outdated, it's seen as a classic book in terms of environmental issues and animal rights, etc. A really wonderfully written book, by an incredibly caring and open minded individual.

 

[Susperia]

who the fuck told you this? I have never heard anything even close to that

My friends father, he is not quite a bodybuilder, but he works out and takes care of himself, does tae kwon doe (sp?) and is incredibly fit. He does it a couple times a year, says that's what people who are athletic do. Perhaps you are still too young? Or haven't spoken to people who do things naturally through fasting, just through cleansing systems and drinks that are supposed to cleanse your system. I find it hard to believe you've never heard of this... Though you tend to be obsessed with things other than just being overall healthy.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

My friends father, he is not quite a bodybuilder, but he works out and takes care of himself, does tae kwon doe (sp?) and is incredibly fit. He does it a couple times a year, says that's what people who are athletic do. Perhaps you are still too young? Or haven't spoken to people who do things naturally through fasting, just through cleansing systems and drinks that are supposed to cleanse your system. I find it hard to believe you've never heard of this... Though you tend to be obsessed with things other than just being overall healthy.

healthy? who would want to be healthy when you can look like

 

[genocide roach]

me?
~gR~

 

[hibernal_dream]

Humans are herbivorous; that means we survive well off of just plant foods. Carnivores need to eat meat. I guess you could classify us as omnivorous as well, except our digestive tracts and such don't do well with meat.

Actually humans are omnivores, like bears, pigs and birds.

 

[Krigloch the Furious]

who the fuck told you this? I have never heard anything even close to that

im with you dave. I have NEVER heard of anything like that. pretty fucking dumb if you ask me.

 

[genocide roach]

the master cleanser
~gR~

 

[~Neurotica]

healthy? who would want to be healthy when you can look like

Fuck that! He looks like a sausage.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

Fuck that! He looks like a sausage.

I was trying to get the most disgusting picture for susperia I could find. My goal is a much more aesthetically pleasing look than that.

 

[~Neurotica]

I hope so.

 

[zabu of nΩd]

How is finding plants to eat a difficult thing to do? It's hell of a lot easier than finding and killing animals. At least in the context of early man. Hunting was a lot of work, but they did it because one buffalo could feed half the village, it was efficient, and they didn't waste anything.

Humans don't eat grass moron. However, that doesn't mean we aren't herbivores by nature. I've said over and over our bodies are designed like that of an herbivore, and I really didn't think it was that hard to see.

Yeah, it actually is hard to see, for a number of reasons. One is that our mouths are not shaped like a lot of herbivores, who have really long jaws with a separate group of teeth in front. Do our skulls really look like those of deer, horses, and the like?

Another point against human herbivory theory is the size of the cecum (a.k.a. appendix in humans). Most herbivores have a much larger cecum, which stores the bacteria which help digest plant matter, and also which supply the body with a lot of the nutrients which are only produced by bacteria (i.e. B12). Evolution theory suggests that our cecum has shrunken in size due to our history of omnivory.

I've used this example a million times on this board but it's an easy one: look at the shape of a humans small intestine and colon, then look at a carnivores. Humans intestines are extremely long, bunched up and have tons of curves and crevices for things to get stuck in. They require lots of fiber to keep things moving so things don't get stuck. A carnivores intestines are straight and short. No bunches, no crevices for things to get stuck in. Meat passes through easily for them, unlike us. Perhaps you've heard about how the steak you ate 5 years ago there are still pieces of it in your intestines, waiting to finally be flushed out.

So what if our physiology isn't carnovore-like? That doesn't make us herbivores. Great job with that example.

I hope that was easy for you to understand. As I said i've been a vegan for 9 years so I know a lot on the subject, you can ask me anything you want. I've never had a problem with getting enough protein, iron, b12, anything. And a lot of what you're hearing about vegans missing stuff is usually in their heads because we are so scared we're not getting enough protein, etc. Sometimes I convince myself I'm iron deficient and feel so tired I go and get a blood exam and it turns out just fine! And then I feel better because I realize it was all in my head. This happens to vegans/vegetarians all the time, because we are constantly being told we must be deficient. Mind over matter is a very powerful thing.

Regarding B12: It's a bacteria that is found in soil. It's no longer found on vegetables or fruit in commercial stores because of how we wash our produce these days, and wax it, etc. Meat eaters only get it because they eat flesh that already has it stored in it. Vegans have trouble only because our vegetables are washed off of all the soil that at one point would still be somewhat on them. b12 is incredibly easy to get in either nutritional yeast, soymilks (like you said) and as a supplement. You only need the minutest amount (like 50 mgs can last you months). Not only that but our bodies store B12 (thats why you can get it through eating meat) so because we always have a store of it it's very unlikely that you would be deficient in it. Deficiencies in B12 are incredibly rare.

According to this, you don't get B12 simply from eating plants with dirt on them. Hopefully you're not trying this yourself.

And our bodies don't simply have an inexhaustible source of B12. You can read here that these stores can be depleted in several years without sufficient B12 intake.

Why are you saying that nutrient deficiency is just in your head? It's a very valid concern for anyone who takes up a diet which the vast majority of humans don't follow. Would you actually be able to stay healthy without soybean products? How many herbivores do you think need to eat soybeans to maintain a healthy diet?