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Hubster, as good of an argument as that was, I don't think that last part will really hit home with good ol Benjie because I get the feeling he really doesn't give two shits what we think of him or his opinions
 
Hubster said:
Not to jump into a fight here, but for anyone to say that they find classical music irrelevant shows only that they are yet to truly understand music.

Benjamin, for a while I thought you had a clue about music. For you to throw mud at one of the most intelligent forms of art ever created in the history of the human race defies logic, even more so when you don't have an understanding of it.

Your opinion shows clearly, and unfortunately, that you're nothing more than a pop fanboy, with limited comprehension of the true meaning of art, expression, and its correlations to history, politics and the like.

I'd highly suggest that to counter what I've said here, you go and start doing some reading and a great deal of listening: you don't necessarily have to "like" classical or early music, but you can not undermine its significance and importance. For you to constructively argue against its relevance to todays world (and music for that matter), you must do some study on it (anything from reading some books and listening to doing a degree if you need to).

I myself prefer metal over all styles of music, yet I will say that Western Art Music is to this day still the most advanced, colourful and expressive form of aural art this world has ever known. It is unparalleled, and has firmly sat on the throne of aural art for almost one thousand years.

Irrelevant it is not. Infact, it is even more important than ever before, especially due to the rising occurance of more performances in Baroque and earlier styles of music for which more manuscripts are being discovered.

Very, very disappointing mate. Big thumbs down. From now on I will definitely take any knowledge of music you exhibit with even less of a grain of salt than what I did before. Get some music history books dude, and soon.
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What about someone living in a prehistoric tribe who has no idea or need to have any idea about classical arts or ideas? I think if we want look at what is relevant to someone we have to look at who that someone is.
 
Cythraul said:
:confused: Are you just flaming for the sake of flaming or what?
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I think hell awaits needs a better vocab.

When I listen to Beethoven, or any classical music for that matter, I try to type well written and descriptive sentences expressing my listening experience. But bigdouche over here sounds like a fuckin 14 year old who thinks the new pokemon game is "fuckin sweet"

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Cythraul said:
You have not adequately shown how to make sense of this claim. You are not showing why it's impossible to make said separation. There's a difference between the act of evaluating something and the thing being evaluated. The act of evaluating content occurs from a perspective, no doubt. But this is true for all of our investigations. All the objects in the world that we talk about are experienced subjectively. Art is not a special case. The evaluation, judgment, or investigation of something always occurs from a given perspective, but this has no bearing on whether our claims about such things are true or not.
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okay, so we can empirically establish, say, that beethoven's 9th symphony is written in d minor, because the essence of 'd minor' is a quality that exists independent of subjectivity. but there's no means to empirically measure whether a claim of 'classical music is better than pop music' is true. unlike theoretical facts regarding music, the idea of a work's quality depends on the relationship between work and observer. if a symphony is played in the woods, and nobody's around to hear it, is it artistically relevant? emphatically NO!

Are you out of your fucking mind? The terms 'dull' and 'escapist' both have meanings in the English language, a corresponding description which someone can fit or fail to fit. Thus, deciding whether someone is escapist or dull is much like deciding whether or not Asia is a large continent, or whether you're an annoying dipshit.

edit: Some further considerations. You might think that the meanings of terms like 'dull' and 'escapist' contain some kind of value component. This supposition is much more plausible in the case of 'dull' than in the case of 'escapist'.
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i think it's just as plausible in the case of 'escapist', because that word hinges on a value judgment of relevancy.

You might think that if that is true, it undermines the objectivity of statements such as "X is dull". But this is bad for you and your argument, because terms like 'reasonable' and 'plausible' contain value components in the very meanings of the terms. It follows then that whether a view is more reasonable or plausible than another is subjective and merely a matter of opinion. Therefore, I could safely say that my view is more reasonable and more plausible than your's, cuz you know, it's just a matter of opinion man.
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terms like 'reasonable' and 'plausible', though, rely on a value judgment along with an assumption of the nature of reality. given that we can map that assumption against knowledge previously known about the nature of reality, it's therefore possible to demonstrate that an opinion is either more or less continuous with accepted 'facts' of reality. of course then you get into the problem of what those 'facts' are, but theoretically there's a method of demonstrable proof here, even if in practice we're probably never going to establish the premises.



Care to provide some evidence for your claims?
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i cant even remember what i said now so

Thoth-Amon said:
Interesting. Going by that very same reasoning you have just described you have INVALIDATED your previous post that pop music is the best music there is... afterall your opinion that it is the best music is dependent upon your own subjective experience and taste and those things aren't objective... so you have just contradicted yourself.
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wow BELIEVE IT OR NOT i was being FLIPPANT when i said 'pop music is the best music' and was not actually making an objective claim regarding its quality! CRAZY I KNOW! :OMG:

Going by the same reasoning you have in your last paragraph I can conclude that you are SHALLOW in thinking that classical music is enjoyed by dull people.
I mean honestly... how the fuck do you find 'Portions for Foxes' to be more emotionally gratifying than Mahler's 5th or Stravinsky's 'The Rite of Spring' or Mozart's 'C Minor Mass'?
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well i dont really like rilo kiley's last album that much so :goggly: but yes, you would be entitled to conclude that. i think i'll live without you thinking much of my intellect, i'll be busy hanging out with the kids who have fun.

Hubster said:
blah blah blah
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i was trolling because saying 'classical music is irrelevant' is pretty much the best way to get classical music fans riled up, especially fucktards like thoth-amon, who feels the need to perpetually rub the fact that he listens to classical music in everyone's face like it makes him cool or smart or something. and unlike me with whatever gay-ass music i'm pushing that week, he's not just doing it to get on people's nerves.

i do actually listen to classical music believe it or not. but i do think this 'HURF DURF GREATEST MUSIC EVER AAARFDHFFFGFH' bullshit is really irritating and mostly derived from the average person's insecurity: re: being seen as unintelligent for not liking it, as a result of intelligentsia-propagated hegemony.

or: i respect an intelligent person a lot more for saying they don't like classical music than for saying they do, because at least it shows they have balls.
 
Wires & Waves said:
wow BELIEVE IT OR NOT i was being FLIPPANT when i said 'pop music is the best music' and was not actually making an objective claim regarding its quality! CRAZY I KNOW! :OMG:
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Funny, because when you said this:

You said:
pop music is the best music
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I replied with this:

Me! said:
Oh man you are stirring the pot so much and being so provacative I can't believe what I am reading.
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To which you responded:

You again said:
im not trying to be "provacative" im just stating my honest opinion . it's not like 'pop' just means 'top 40' and there is underground pop music, regardless of how you idiots choose to interpret the term
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And now you say you were being flippant*? Which is it?

*(frivolously disrespectful, shallow, or lacking in seriousness; characterized by levity: The audience was shocked by his flippant remarks about patriotism).
 
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