Official GMD Photo/Social Thread

[Necro Joe]

You want me to provide you with a list or something? Art has meaningful content. Meaning relations obtain in a public sphere; they do not obtain just because some individual thinks they obtain.

All I'm trying to understand is how you think the relations of meaning between an artwork and what it refers to determine its value.

Sure, the term 'escapism' can have varying applications. What is your point?

That the subjective part is where you start applying the term 'escapist' to someone exibiting (extremely common) escapist behaviour. Who is to say when you become an escapist?

 

[Cythraul]

All I'm trying to understand is how you think the relations of meaning between an artwork and what it refers to determine its value.

You must be slightly misunderstanding me. I was merely trying to make the case that judgments about art don't have to hinge so crucially on one's subjective experience of it.

That the subjective part is where you start applying the term 'escapist' to someone exibiting (extremely common) escapist behaviour.

How is it subjective? For most terms there are cases in which it is unclear whether the term should be applied. It's not a special problem for the terms we're talking about. Anyway, Wires and Waves initially accused people who think classical music is superior of being escapists, and I take it he meant it in a very derogatory sense. That was the whole point of his saying that. It's not like he meant "Oh they're escapist in the very same sense that people who like to read books in their spare time are escapist." Anyway, I don't see how your point matters. There are clear cases in which people are escapists, and that's all that matters right now.

Who is to say when you become an escapist?

This is only a problem in vague cases.

 

[Necro Joe]

You must be slightly misunderstanding me. I was merely trying to make the case that judgments about art don't have to hinge so crucially on one's subjective experience of it.

Ok super.

How is it subjective? For most terms there are cases in which it is unclear whether the term should be applied. It's not a special problem for the terms we're talking about. Anyway, Wires and Waves initially accused people who think classical music is superior of being escapists, and I take it he meant it in a very derogatory sense. That was the whole point of his saying that. It's not like he meant "Oh they're escapist in the very same sense that people who like to read books in their spare time are escapist." Anyway, I don't see how your point matters. There are clear cases in which people are escapists, and that's all that matters right now.

Those 'clear cases' are still based on a judgement of what is an acceptable level of escapism, which obviously we don't all share. Listening to music is escapism on some level so how distant from reality you regard the music being listened to and how deeply involved the listener appears to be with the music (wooly phrase I know but it'll do) would go some way to determining how much of an 'escapist' you percieve them to be when compared with how much of one you think they should be.

 

[Hell Awaits Us All]

YES! It's Amarantus! How are you, buddy? Did you beat up any nerds today?

I hope (though I doubt) you recognize how absurd and pretentious that sounds. Would you care for a crowbar so you can pry your head out of your ass?

as much as I like thoth, I'm with dodens here

W & W needs to stop arguing with Cythraul, who is assraping him in this argument

 

[Satanstoenail]

Wires and Waves initially accused people who think classical music is superior of being escapists, and I take it he meant it in a very derogatory sense. That was the whole point of his saying that. It's not like he meant "Oh they're escapist in the very same sense that people who like to read books in their spare time are escapist." Anyway, I don't see how your point matters. There are clear cases in which people are escapists, and that's all that matters right now.

Well obviously he meant it in a derogatory sense, he was trying (and succeeding) to get the classical lovers riled up. Therefore your subsequent analysis as to whether w&w should be throwing terms like 'escapist' around as a matter of opinion is a pointless waste of time.

 

[Ender Rises]

Can we stop the fucking argument already?

 

[Astrum]

Let them do their thing.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

I used sequencing software (obviously Fruity Loops) to do this BM track. It's instrumental, sorry. But I think it sounds good and took about an hour and 15 minutes.

Soldrøm - Eyes And Torture In The Bleak Dementia (Unleashed and Petrified)

 

[Astrum]

Ugh, Metal Archives is down again. That stupid fucking bandwith message. Last time it said that, it was down for quite some time.

 

[V.V.V.V.V.]

Listen to my song!

And yeah M-A might be down for a bit...

 

[Cythraul]

Those 'clear cases' are still based on a judgement of what is an acceptable level of escapism

No they're not. They're just cases in which it is clear that the behavior + psychological facts about a person obtain in such a way that the description given in the meaning of the term obviously applies to them. It is an entirely different matter whether any given level of escapism is "acceptable" or not.

Listening to music is escapism on some level so how distant from reality you regard the music being listened to and how deeply involved the listener appears to be with the music (wooly phrase I know but it'll do) would go some way to determining how much of an 'escapist' you percieve them to be when compared with how much of one you think they should be.

So what? What are you trying to show me here? I never claimed that listening to music couldn't be some sort of escapism. If that's the case then so much the worse for Wires & Waves because obviously he listens to music. Seriously, I really don't know what point you're trying to make. You're going to have to rephrase the above post.

 

[Cythraul]

Well obviously he meant it in a derogatory sense, he was trying (and succeeding) to get the classical lovers riled up. Therefore your subsequent analysis as to whether w&w should be throwing terms like 'escapist' around as a matter of opinion is a pointless waste of time.

Not really. It's clear that he took his own claim seriously and that he wasn't merely trying to rile people up. Why did he spend so much time arguing with me about why it's ok for him to call classical lovers 'escapists'? He could have said that he was just trolling in the first place. I pointed out the fact that he was using 'escapist' in a derogatory sense to make a semantic point. I wasn't trying to say that his whole motive was to rile people up and that he didn't take his own claim seriously. His whole argument was that it's a matter of opinion whether somebody is an escapist and therefore he's justified in calling all the classical lovers 'escapists'. It's clearly not a matter of opinion and it's clearly an unjustified belief.

 

[genocide roach]

im so going to this. every time i go home on laeve, there is a kick ass show
~gR~

 

[Astrum]

A local, cheap thrash show? Damn, I wish I lived where you did. Nothing but metalcore/hardcore shows around here.

 

[Satanstoenail]

Not really. It's clear that he took his own claim seriously and that he wasn't merely trying to rile people up. Why did he spend so much time arguing with me about why it's ok for him to call classical lovers 'escapists'? He could have said that he was just trolling in the first place. I pointed out the fact that he was using 'escapist' in a derogatory sense to make a semantic point. I wasn't trying to say that his whole motive was to rile people up and that he didn't take his own claim seriously. His whole argument was that it's a matter of opinion whether somebody is an escapist and therefore he's justified in calling all the classical lovers 'escapists'. It's clearly not a matter of opinion and it's clearly an unjustified belief.

You've lost the plot. Of course it's a fucking matter of opinion. Whether it was justified or not doesn't make any difference. It's a generalisation formed out of observation.

 

[genocide roach]

A local, cheap thrash show? Damn, I wish I lived where you did. Nothing but metalcore/hardcore shows around here.

well, i dont live there anymore. but here in co springs we have a decent DM scene. nothing compared to the bay though
~gR~

 

[Cythraul]

You've lost the plot. Of course it's a fucking matter of opinion.

No it's fucking not you idiot. It's an attribution of some property to somebody and it can true or false independently of what anybody thinks about it. How the fuck is that so hard to understand?

Whether it was justified or not doesn't make any difference.

Yes it fucking does. If a belief is not justified then it's not very likely to be true or at the very least somebody with an unjustified belief ought not to go around and act as if they know it to be true.

It's a generalisation formed out of observation.

Out of observation? Observation of what? That's what I'd like to know. I'd like to know what observations W&W has made. Furthermore, I'd like to know if his fucking observations have make his claim justified. If there have been no such observations then there is no reason for anybody to take him seriously and he should shut the fuck up, stop being so arrogant, and stop making claims that aren't even convincing in the least.

 

[~Derek~]

well, i dont live there anymore. but here in co springs we have a decent DM scene. nothing compared to the bay though
~gR~

And Cephalic Carnage is the biggest band to come out of there? What other bands are in the CO Scene?

 

[Hubster]

W & W needs to stop arguing with Cythraul, who is assraping him in this argument

Bigtime. Cythraul is probably running out of extra assholes to hand to Benji given Benji needed a new one so many times in a row.

 

[Wires & Waves]

i have no motivation to continue this argument now that my apartment's hot water is working again and thus i can actually shower and go outside... i might get back to it or i might not; take this as admission of defeat if you want. that said, i hardly trust the cognitive faculties of such intellectual giants as bigdave and hubster to evaluate the quality of my argument.