Opeth and religion

[vampyré]

This probably sounds rediculous to a lot of you, but most people who actually practice their religion know God exists because they've actually felt Him.

That, or they could be mentally ill.

Yeah... that's more likely.

 

[Opethian666]

Again, no, you aren't. You only say you aren't sure because that idea seems so rediculous, but there is no way of being completely 100% sure about anything ever.

Yes there is. I am 100% sure that there is no god as described by humans in the same way that I am sure that 1+1=2 in mathematics.

What do you people mean that religion is one of the only things where logic doesn't have any meaning? Have you heard of this thing called "emotion"? The basic concept that makes us human has very little logic in it. People constantly do illogical things because of emotion. And beer as well. But that's another story.

Illogical things from a certain point of view that still have a logical cause that can be found. Everything humans do could theoretically be calculated with a certain very complex mathematical equation, with the help of biochemistry and physics.

And if the concept of religion is so rediculous, why has it existed in practically every culture since the beginning of time, including cultures that never came into contact with one another? And don't tell me "OMG PPL HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ST00PID LOLZ!!!!F"

Because of the fact that religion was needed to explain things people could not explain yet. In the beginning, people thought there were gods responsible for lightning, fire, the weather etc... As science makes progress, the gaps of knowledge where a god can jump in, are becoming smaller and smaller.

No person can prove the existence of God, but God can prove his existence to you. This probably sounds rediculous to a lot of you, but most people who actually practice their religion know God exists because they've actually felt Him. They can't prove this to anybody else, but they know it themselves.

They get a certain feeling caused by hormones that they trigger their brain to set free. If you really believe in something it's easy to deceive yourself into thinking that something you feel that was caused by your train of thoughts is actually some kind of 'divine' presence.

In the end, you have the right to be an atheist, or worship hamsters, or cover yourself in shaving cream because of religious beliefs. But you really can't be 100% sure that there is no God.

Yes I can. The end.

 

[Moonstruck]

That, or they could be mentally ill.

Yeah... that's more likely.

Heh, yea. Subjective emotions and feelings really are great proof of a god. You always have to become religous to feel a god. I've always wondered why it isn't the other way around (well actually I know why, but I never got a satisfying answer from a believer).

 

[Braighs]

Vem styr symmetrin?
Vad skapar den sideriska alkemin?
Vem styr symmetrin?
Vem är den dunkla arkitekten i periferin?

 

[Kenneth R.]

Heh, yea. Subjective emotions and feelings really are great proof of a god. You always have to become religous to feel a god. I've always wondered why it isn't the other way around (well actually I know why, but I never got a satisfying answer from a believer).

In my opinion you are right, and it is because people have a difficult time differentiating their own will from that of a higher power. I won't say that such a thing doesn't exist as 'feeling' or 'knowing' a deity, as I believe that it is possible, but I believe many people mistake their own consciousness for this instead.

I'm curious about the 1 person who voted Buddhist, the 6 people who voted 'Other' since that implies not atheist, not agnostic.

 

[Ermz]

I've been having a run of bad luck in my life that seems so deliberate, I can't really associate it with random chance anymore. That's probably the closest I can say I've come to wavering from atheism

 

[Necromantic-Hiko]

In my opinion you are right, and it is because people have a difficult time differentiating their own will from that of a higher power. I won't say that such a thing doesn't exist as 'feeling' or 'knowing' a deity, as I believe that it is possible, but I believe many people mistake their own consciousness for this instead.

I'm curious about the 1 person who voted Buddhist, the 6 people who voted 'Other' since that implies not atheist, not agnostic.

jewish?

 

[CAIRATH]

Again, no, you aren't. You only say you aren't sure because that idea seems so rediculous, but there is no way of being completely 100% sure about anything ever.

What do you people mean that religion is one of the only things where logic doesn't have any meaning? Have you heard of this thing called "emotion"? The basic concept that makes us human has very little logic in it. People constantly do illogical things because of emotion. And beer as well. But that's another story.

And if the concept of religion is so rediculous, why has it existed in practically every culture since the beginning of time, including cultures that never came into contact with one another? And don't tell me "OMG PPL HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ST00PID LOLZ!!!!F"

No person can prove the existence of God, but God can prove his existence to you. This probably sounds rediculous to a lot of you, but most people who actually practice their religion know God exists because they've actually felt Him. They can't prove this to anybody else, but they know it themselves.

In the end, you have the right to be an atheist, or worship hamsters, or cover yourself in shaving cream because of religious beliefs. But you really can't be 100% sure that there is no God.

I would respond to this but from your response I gather you are too stupid to bother arguing with. So I won't. Have fun living your life on your knees.

 

[metal_wrath]

I am suprprised, I disagree with almost all of you. Also I think some opinions should be kept to yourself about religion so I will keep mine.



Btw, I am a Medievalist

 

[Jon Snow]

Because of the fact that religion was needed to explain things people could not explain yet. In the beginning, people thought there were gods responsible for lightning, fire, the weather etc... As science makes progress, the gaps of knowledge where a god can jump in, are becoming smaller and smaller.

Word.

 

[metal_wrath]

Yes there is. I am 100% sure that there is no god as described by humans in the same way that I am sure that 1+1=2 in mathematics.

How are you sure that 1+1=2, because you are a conformist? How the matrix has fooled you all, lol.

 

[Leandro]

How are you sure that 1+1=2, because you are a conformist? How the matrix has fooled you all, lol.

because it can be easily proven. If you take amounts equivalent to the significance of the symbols 1 and 2, you'l verify that equalty. It's not conformism.

edit: this thread is retarded btw

 

[Towedwart]

I highly suggest ending the religious debate. It just... does nothing. At all. For anyone. Ever.

I'm a Christian... seem to becoming more and more of a deist or something of sorts. Very liberal view to an extent. Like, for instance: the earth is definitely that 5-7 billions years old. The universe is definitely that 17 or so billion years old. Go back 300,000 years ago, you see no anatomically modern humans. But, I maintain the idea that something can't come of nothing, so God made it. For whatever purpose, here it all is. Then, 2000 years ago, Jesus comes, dies on cross, New Testament is written by people over many years. It explains what all Christianity is, mostly. I don't believe in a huge crazy antichrist end of the world kind of crap like the Left Behind series. So, that's it for now.

 

[MegaMoose]

I would respond to this but from your response I gather you are too stupid to bother arguing with. So I won't. Have fun living your life on your knees.

Yeah, disagreeing with you makes me stupid. Since you know all about me and my life, you can legitimately call me stupid.

It's not like I just get down on my knees and go "Order me around, God!" I live my life of my own free will, but try to go by Christian morals. Yes, I believe there is a God; I have my reasons, and you should respect my right to have this opinion. I disagree with your opinion, but I'm not going to act like a 5 year old and call you stupid. In the end, I couldn't care less what you think.

Also, I do believe there's a God and I associate myself with Christianity, but I'm still not sure if I've actually accepted Chistianity for sure.

So why am I wasting my time arguing on the internet? At least Opethian-somethingorother could argue with tact.

SHIT THREAD

 

[Abhorsen]

In my opinion you are right, and it is because people have a difficult time differentiating their own will from that of a higher power. I won't say that such a thing doesn't exist as 'feeling' or 'knowing' a deity, as I believe that it is possible, but I believe many people mistake their own consciousness for this instead.

I'm curious about the 1 person who voted Buddhist, the 6 people who voted 'Other' since that implies not atheist, not agnostic.

the buddhist would be me.

 

[ViCyniC]

You don't need religion to believe in God. I think math is a better way to know God than the Bible or any other man-made book.

 

[RDreamer]

How many times have we all seen this debate on the Interweb and in life, the old "You can't prove God therefore He doesn't exist" thing. It occurs to me that nobody who engages in this sort of debate has the faintest idea of who God is and how He operates. God is not the sort of Being to be a dictator. He will not just show Himself blatantly to everyone except in extreme circumstances. He remains mysterious, and so to self-centered and closed-minded humans he seems non-existant. This is as far from truth as can be. God will not leave anyone, ever, without a choice as to whether to believe He is real or not. God will knock but He will never, ever bust down a door.

Religion has existed from the beginning of time, and there is a reason for that and it sure as hell is not "primitive man needed an explanation for fire/lightning/etc.". Explain idolatry then. Explain the need for a people to, all of a sudden, build themselves an image and then worship it. From this we cannot conclude that they were trying to explain their world. We can only conclude that man has an innate and totally unscientific need to worship. It doesn't matter what it is, humans need to worship SOMETHING. Today, we all worship something, be that God, the devil, the goddess, the Earth itself, a person, sex, or money. We can't escape this reality.

Why, if humans then evolved from apes and whatnot, would we possibly feel the need to do that? Tell me where the survival instinct is in worship. Tell me how that would have evolved, where the survival of the fittest principle would have bred that into us?

My point is, it's there and the only reason it would be there is a supernatural one. A lot of people outright reject the supernatural because scientifically, it doesn't make sense. It isn't testable, it isn't logical. That sort of mindset is an utterly presumptous and arrogant one, carrying the idea that if the human mind cannot totally grasp something, it cannot then exist. To this idea, I simply say "Bullshit". If you haven't the wisdom to know there are things you can't understand, then you have no wisdom at all and are mired in your own pride.

The wonderful thing about faith, my friends, is that it doesn't make sense. If it made sense to believe in God, then everyone would, and we really wouldn't have a choice. God doesn't want puppets or zombies, He wants friends who come to Him because they choose to, not because it makes good proper logical sense.

 

[ViCyniC]

^ Believe it or not, some of us don't feel the need to worship anything. Appreciate things, yes. But worship? No. Your view of God is limited. The God I believe in requires no amount of worship or prayer.

 

[BreathingShadow]

How many times have we all seen this debate on the Interweb and in life, the old "You can't prove God therefore He doesn't exist" thing. It occurs to me that nobody who engages in this sort of debate has the faintest idea of who God is and how He operates. God is not the sort of Being to be a dictator. He will not just show Himself blatantly to everyone except in extreme circumstances. He remains mysterious, and so to self-centered and closed-minded humans he seems non-existant. This is as far from truth as can be. God will not leave anyone, ever, without a choice as to whether to believe He is real or not. God will knock but He will never, ever bust down a door.

Religion has existed from the beginning of time, and there is a reason for that and it sure as hell is not "primitive man needed an explanation for fire/lightning/etc.". Explain idolatry then. Explain the need for a people to, all of a sudden, build themselves an image and then worship it. From this we cannot conclude that they were trying to explain their world. We can only conclude that man has an innate and totally unscientific need to worship. It doesn't matter what it is, humans need to worship SOMETHING. Today, we all worship something, be that God, the devil, the goddess, the Earth itself, a person, sex, or money. We can't escape this reality.

Why, if humans then evolved from apes and whatnot, would we possibly feel the need to do that? Tell me where the survival instinct is in worship. Tell me how that would have evolved, where the survival of the fittest principle would have bred that into us?

My point is, it's there and the only reason it would be there is a supernatural one. A lot of people outright reject the supernatural because scientifically, it doesn't make sense. It isn't testable, it isn't logical. That sort of mindset is an utterly presumptous and arrogant one, carrying the idea that if the human mind cannot totally grasp something, it cannot then exist. To this idea, I simply say "Bullshit". If you haven't the wisdom to know there are things you can't understand, then you have no wisdom at all and are mired in your own pride.

The wonderful thing about faith, my friends, is that it doesn't make sense. If it made sense to believe in God, then everyone would, and we really wouldn't have a choice. God doesn't want puppets or zombies, He wants friends who come to Him because they choose to, not because it makes good proper logical sense.

best post so far

 

[Opethian666]

Why, if humans then evolved from apes and whatnot, would we possibly feel the need to do that? Tell me where the survival instinct is in worship. Tell me how that would have evolved, where the survival of the fittest principle would have bred that into us?

Religion leads to grouping of people who worship the same deity, which could possibly lead to a higher survivability and reproduction. Religion could also relieve stress and lengthen human life span. There's plenty of possibilities.

My point is, it's there and the only reason it would be there is a supernatural one. A lot of people outright reject the supernatural because scientifically, it doesn't make sense. It isn't testable, it isn't logical.

Indeed, it makes absolutely no sense.

That sort of mindset is an utterly presumptous and arrogant one, carrying the idea that if the human mind cannot totally grasp something, it cannot then exist.

No, the supernatural exists in certain human's minds exactly because the human mind cannot totally grasp something. Because of the fact there are some things we cannot yet explain, there is a division among people. You have those people that say, oh hell, I can't explain this, let's just say it's some kind of supernatural thingy. Then you have those people who refuse to accept the fact that they can't explain it, and will research it and try to find an accurate scientifical explanation for it. It's kind of ironic how the first group calls the second group arrogant.

To this idea, I simply say "Bullshit". If you haven't the wisdom to know there are things you can't understand, then you have no wisdom at all and are mired in your own pride.

There may be some things we don't understand YET, but I have more respect for people who keep on trying to find explanations than people who make up an imaginary one just for comfort.

The wonderful thing about faith, my friends, is that it doesn't make sense. If it made sense to believe in God, then everyone would, and we really wouldn't have a choice. God doesn't want puppets or zombies, He wants friends who come to Him because they choose to, not because it makes good proper logical sense.

Oh if you are wondering, I don't believe in free will, so that argument of the "good" people choosing faith doesn't make sense for me either. Everything humans do could be theoretically predicted if you know the structure of their body (including genetics, memory) and the input they are getting from their environment. So basically we don't really have a choice as you would put it. It may be fun to think that we have a choice, and that the choices you make, make you a better person than other people who make different choices, but in fact, it doesn't. Everyone is equal, be it a child molestor or someone who helps people everyday. Some of us just have more luck with our genetic makeup, environment, and life experiences.