Opeth and religion

[cuntface]

Assuming, i bet you celebrate christmas by recieving gifts. Athiest my bollocks.

well most of us come from a christian background so the tradition is still there but the beliefs arent..... but i think we should cause chaos as it would be more fun

 

[cuntface]

How many times have we all seen this debate on the Interweb and in life, the old "You can't prove God therefore He doesn't exist" thing. It occurs to me that nobody who engages in this sort of debate has the faintest idea of who God is and how He operates. God is not the sort of Being to be a dictator. He will not just show Himself blatantly to everyone except in extreme circumstances. He remains mysterious, and so to self-centered and closed-minded humans he seems non-existant. This is as far from truth as can be. God will not leave anyone, ever, without a choice as to whether to believe He is real or not. God will knock but He will never, ever bust down a door.

Religion has existed from the beginning of time, and there is a reason for that and it sure as hell is not "primitive man needed an explanation for fire/lightning/etc.". Explain idolatry then. Explain the need for a people to, all of a sudden, build themselves an image and then worship it. From this we cannot conclude that they were trying to explain their world. We can only conclude that man has an innate and totally unscientific need to worship. It doesn't matter what it is, humans need to worship SOMETHING. Today, we all worship something, be that God, the devil, the goddess, the Earth itself, a person, sex, or money. We can't escape this reality.

Why, if humans then evolved from apes and whatnot, would we possibly feel the need to do that? Tell me where the survival instinct is in worship. Tell me how that would have evolved, where the survival of the fittest principle would have bred that into us?

My point is, it's there and the only reason it would be there is a supernatural one. A lot of people outright reject the supernatural because scientifically, it doesn't make sense. It isn't testable, it isn't logical. That sort of mindset is an utterly presumptous and arrogant one, carrying the idea that if the human mind cannot totally grasp something, it cannot then exist. To this idea, I simply say "Bullshit". If you haven't the wisdom to know there are things you can't understand, then you have no wisdom at all and are mired in your own pride.

The wonderful thing about faith, my friends, is that it doesn't make sense. If it made sense to believe in God, then everyone would, and we really wouldn't have a choice. God doesn't want puppets or zombies, He wants friends who come to Him because they choose to, not because it makes good proper logical sense.

man that just sound slike a load of shite, humans dont need to worship anything i dont worship anything, religion is just so falwed it donest make any sense and you say, 'If you haven't the wisdom to know there are things you can't understand, then you have no wisdom at all' would you say that to the greatest scientists in the world the people who have discoved the way the world works, the way it was created, i think in their eyes it is you who hasnt the wisdom to understand the world

 

[Conservatory Resonance]

nature

 

[phagist_]

How many times have we all seen this debate on the Interweb and in life, the old "You can't prove God therefore He doesn't exist" thing.

Then why add fuel to the fire. You seem to recognize the problem, yet still aspire to put your view across.

It occurs to me that nobody who engages in this sort of debate has the faintest idea of who God is and how He operates.

You engaged in the debate...

 

[Opethian666]

best post so far

Why? Because it said what you wanted to read? I guess that's also why you think christianity is the best faith...

 

[affinityband]

METAL!!!

 

[cuntface]

ALLRIIIGHTgigidygigidygigidygigidygigidygigidygigidygigidy

 

[phagist_]

in before close

 

[cuntface]

Then why add fuel to the fire. You seem to recognize the problem, yet still aspire to put your view across.

You engaged in the debate...

i think RDreamer is a gay MONKEYBOY

 

[CAIRATH]

It occurs to me that nobody who engages in this sort of debate has the faintest idea of who God is and how He operates.

Riiiight. And you ofcourse are the enligtened one who somehow does know and is going to explain it to all of us.

Religion has existed from the beginning of time, and there is a reason for that and it sure as hell is not "primitive man needed an explanation for fire/lightning/etc.".

That is exactly where religion comes from. As the only species on this planet (that we know of) who is self-aware we are cursed with the knowledge that we are all going to die. Fear of death is the main reason why religion has thrived for as long as it has. The idea that you simply stop existing at some point and that there is no reason whatsoever for you to be on this earth (atleast not any more reason than a random bird or fish) and that your whole existance is in essence a meaningless grain of sand in the vast desert of the universe (it's too early for stupid metaphors but I couldn't think of any other way to phrase it briefly) is something that mankind in general just has trouble dealing with. Man fears death. We don't want to stop existing and have our loved ones torn from our lives forever, or be torn from our loved ones' lives when we die.

So what do we do? We come up with some theory that our existance here is not meaningless but that we have been put here for some higher purpose. Because having a purpose is comforting. And we add to that theory the fact that life is basically some kind of 'test' and that if you behave really well you will see your loved ones again in some kind of eternal paradise and live happily together forever. That sure sounds nice to me! Suddenly we don't have to be afraid of death anymore because why does it matter if you die? You'll be back together again eventually, and moreso, you'll get to go to some paradise which we can only assume is a much nicer place than this world.

That is one reason. The other is fear of the unknown which as H.P. Lovecraft has accurately said is pretty much the biggest fear known to man. Everything that we cannot explain somehow is scary. So yes, the early (pagan) forms of religion and worship most likely did start out for exactly the reason you mentioned. To primitive people with no real concept of science or logic a sudden bolt of lightning from the sky and loud thunder is really scary. Because what the hell is doing that? If you can just explain those phenomena by saying there is a man living in the sky and he's doing that because we made him angry so we just need to stop doing this and that or throw some children into a volcano or something then that makes it easier to cope with because it is no longer unknown. It feels like it has a reason. Nowadays we know that lightning is caused by friction in the sky between low pressure and high pressure areas and so we have no need to think that there is some kind of lightning god with a big hammer living in the sky anymore.

Ofcourse everyone can believe whatever the hell they want. But the whole idea that religion should not be testable and that is why it makes sense is just completely ridiculous. If it isn't testable then how does your idea of what God/heaven/whatever is make any more sense than my idea of God being a pink bunny with a party hat who lives on top of a giant beach ball? If you throw logic and reason out the window and simply accept anything no matter how crazy it is simple because you are not 'supposed' to be able to explain it then where does it end? And that is exactly the hypocrisy of most Christians. They firmly grasp to the most ridiculous and illogical concepts and just blindly accept them as true, but when someone else claims something equally unverifiable and ridiculous they are considered 'insane' or at the very least, weird. Why can I not worship a pink bunny without being considered insane when you can worship an invisible deity when there is exactly the same amount of proof (none) or reason (none) to believe they exist?

 

[Opethian666]

ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!!

HAVE YOU BEEN TOUCHED BY HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE???

 

[CAIRATH]

Heheheh

 

[Opethian666]

Dress up like pirates and stop global warming!!!1!one!11!!!

Btw, Atheist > all Christian metal bands.

 

[cuntface]

Riiiight. And you ofcourse are the enligtened one who somehow does know and is going to explain it to all of us.




That is exactly where religion comes from. As the only species on this planet (that we know of) who is self-aware we are cursed with the knowledge that we are all going to die. Fear of death is the main reason why religion has thrived for as long as it has. The idea that you simply stop existing at some point and that there is no reason whatsoever for you to be on this earth (atleast not any more reason than a random bird or fish) and that your whole existance is in essence a meaningless grain of sand in the vast desert of the universe (it's too early for stupid metaphors but I couldn't think of any other way to phrase it briefly) is something that mankind in general just has trouble dealing with. Man fears death. We don't want to stop existing and have our loved ones torn from our lives forever, or be torn from our loved ones' lives when we die.

So what do we do? We come up with some theory that our existance here is not meaningless but that we have been put here for some higher purpose. Because having a purpose is comforting. And we add to that theory the fact that life is basically some kind of 'test' and that if you behave really well you will see your loved ones again in some kind of eternal paradise and live happily together forever. That sure sounds nice to me! Suddenly we don't have to be afraid of death anymore because why does it matter if you die? You'll be back together again eventually, and moreso, you'll get to go to some paradise which we can only assume is a much nicer place than this world.

That is one reason. The other is fear of the unknown which as H.P. Lovecraft has accurately said is pretty much the biggest fear known to man. Everything that we cannot explain somehow is scary. So yes, the early (pagan) forms of religion and worship most likely did start out for exactly the reason you mentioned. To primitive people with no real concept of science or logic a sudden bolt of lightning from the sky and loud thunder is really scary. Because what the hell is doing that? If you can just explain those phenomena by saying there is a man living in the sky and he's doing that because we made him angry so we just need to stop doing this and that or throw some children into a volcano or something then that makes it easier to cope with because it is no longer unknown. It feels like it has a reason. Nowadays we know that lightning is caused by friction in the sky between low pressure and high pressure areas and so we have no need to think that there is some kind of lightning god with a big hammer living in the sky anymore.

Ofcourse everyone can believe whatever the hell they want. But the whole idea that religion should not be testable and that is why it makes sense is just completely ridiculous. If it isn't testable then how does your idea of what God/heaven/whatever is make any more sense than my idea of God being a pink bunny with a party hat who lives on top of a giant beach ball? If you throw logic and reason out the window and simply accept anything no matter how crazy it is simple because you are not 'supposed' to be able to explain it then where does it end? And that is exactly the hypocrisy of most Christians. They firmly grasp to the most ridiculous and illogical concepts and just blindly accept them as true, but when someone else claims something equally unverifiable and ridiculous they are considered 'insane' or at the very least, weird. Why can I not worship a pink bunny without being considered insane when you can worship an invisible deity when there is exactly the same amount of proof (none) or reason (none) to believe they exist?

+ 1 best ever!

people need to belive that human life has a meaning.. rather than just a (pointless) probablility of a mathmatical equation that life is enivitable in our ever expaning infinate universe

 

[metal_wrath]

+ 1 best ever!

people need to belive that human life has a meaning.. rather than just a (pointless) probablility of a mathmatical equation that life is enivitable in our ever expaning infinate universe

That is only your opinion, and the 'infinite universe' is only a theory.

 

[Kenneth R.]

the buddhist would be me.

interesting.

i skipped all the long posted arguments as we've had them all before and nothing productive ever comes of it.

 

[metal_wrath]

You forgot some religions:

• 
  Jewish
  Mormon
  Pagan
  Wicca
  Celtic?
  Undead
  Medievalist
  Satanist
  Stoner :Smokin:
  Self worship
  and Opethian

thats just to name a few

 

[Opethian666]

You forgot some religions:

Jewish
Mormon
Pagan
Wicca
Celtic?
Undead
Medievalist
Satanist
Stoner
Self worship
and Opethian
thats just to name a few

I'm only part of the red ones, and that's why I had the other option. Besides, we all know that everyone at the Opeth forum worship themselves.

 

[Kenneth R.]

You forgot some religions:

• 
  Jewish
  Mormon
  Pagan
  Wicca
  Celtic?
  Undead
  Medievalist
  Satanist
  Stoner :Smokin:
  Self worship
  and Opethian

thats just to name a few

philosophy, religion, and fanboyism aren't interchangeable

 

[daz436]

ALL HAIL THE FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER!!!

HAVE YOU BEEN TOUCHED BY HIS NOODLY APPENDAGE???

racist