opeth and tool

[Heret1c]

ahh yes and i greet all the real tool fans out here

 

[ham]

Tool have just as many elements of progressive music in their style as Opeth.

I saw Tool live in May this year, and it was mindblowing. Danny Carey really is one of the best drummers in rock and metal today.

all of that aside, i'm not really into em anymore, kinda played their stuff to death. same with opeth.

 

[Static]

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
And the Tool fans are subjective little Angels aren't they? Oh wait, no they aren't. Maybe if they paid any respect to other people's opinions I'd do the same to them but hell, most of them are as pretentious and arrogant as the band they masturbate to everynight.

Heh, funny. No one respects your opinion because of the way you present it. Not because they are Tool fans. Its funny how you label so many people as 'pretentious and arrogant'. Heh...kinda makes you seem *gasp* kinda arrogant huh? Tell me what the fuck should I respect about anything you have said? Throughout this entire thread you have been acting like an arrogant bastard. I read the whole thread and decided that you were being an inconsdierate asshole in the way you give your opinion, not the opinion itself.

There is a prime example, why should I even bother respecting these people at all...[/B]

Hehe...even funnier. Why would anyone respect someone who acted like this:

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
Tool really bore me, Undertow was crap, Lateralus was worse and Aenima was a half-decent album but what the hell is so special about them to give them the absolutely huge fanbase that they have? If you've heard one Tool song you've heard them all..now let's go kids, let's play spot the difference between Sober and Schism!

Ohh tee hee hee. I really appreciate the way you talk down to everyone who likes Tool. Your opinion, is like, sooo respectfully written... Saying 'if you've heard one Tool song you've heard them all' is possibly the most close-minded comment I've ever heard. Whats the hells similar between Reflection and The Grudge? Parabola and Third Eye? Jimmy and Eulogy? Ok...hmm..what the fuck!?

I'm close-minded because I think Radiohead are more progressive than Tool? Oh, lord Static I can only wish to be as open-minded as you to other people's opinions![/B]

Yes, that is why you are close-minded. Not because of the fact you think this, but the fact that it creates a large amount of bias in your argument. If you will take the time to figure out what I wrote you will see what I meant: you base Tools 'progressiveness' and I think quality against your favourite band Radiohead. You obviously like Radiohead so much that in the very act of comparing these two COMPLETLY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT groups a strong bias AGAINST Tool is created in your argument. Nuff said.

Once again, I DON'T DISLIKE TOOL, my only point has ever been that they are not progressive, they re-use the same ideas over and over and their sound has barely changed over 3 albums. Just because I think Lateralus was a crap album, and if it had been done by anyone else you'd all ignore it doesn't mean I don't like Tool.[/B]

No you don't dislike Tool, you dislike Tools fans. You have NEVER EVER known a Tool fan as annoying, pretentious and arrogant as my friend Dan. Trust me...he is the worlds most fucking arrogant Tool fan on earth, he is the embodiment of pretentiousness, and sometimes I want to rip my ears off just so I don't have to hear the CRAP he goes on about. However, I've never let my hatred of exhibit A: 'The Know-it-all Tool fan' effect how much I like the music itself. Also, the way you label every Tool fan as being one of these is pretty pretentious. You say Tool hasn't changed their sound, I say: 'TRY LISTENING', because I don't get how you cannot hear the difference between say Opiate and Lateralus.

SOBER: Slow build-up into the intro, repetitive basic riff and wailing guitar supports it, Maynard joins in the fun with his montone vocals he becomes loud as it approaches the chorus as does the riffs and drums yada yada..there is a really slow part where he sings quietly and the wailing guitar goes but then it bursts into life..and then continues in the usual manner till the end where he repeats the same vocals over and over till it finishes.

SCHISM: Another slow build-up, the repetitive basic riff begins and is joined by another guitar again, Maynard joins in with some vocals that again get loud at set periods along with the music, then the song goes all quiet again and his vocals became more quieter and somber during it..then it bursts into life and he will continue this until the end..where he repeats the same vocals over and over till it finishes.[/B]

Look, I'm trying to respect your opinion here...but its hard when you right things as STUPID as the above. I mean seriously...that utter crap doesn't even deserve to be adressed, it speaks for itself.

So yeah, I'm on drugs. [/B]

Just as I thought!

 

[Masters Apprentice]

Originally posted by Static
Heh, funny. No one respects your opinion because of the way you present it. Not because they are Tool fans. Its funny how you label so many people as 'pretentious and arrogant'. Heh...kinda makes you seem *gasp* kinda arrogant huh? Tell me what the fuck should I respect about anything you have said? Throughout this entire thread you have been acting like an arrogant bastard. I read the whole thread and decided that you were being an inconsdierate asshole in the way you give your opinion, not the opinion itself.

I didn't ask anyone to respect my opinion, I just give unto others what they give unto me. Explain exactly how somebody calling people pretentious and arrogant makes them either? You're a retard who got pissy because he got owned so you're totally changing your stance from defending Tool to OMG YOU'RE SUCH A NAUGHTY GUY WHO NEEDS TO BROWN NOSE PEOPLE WHEN GIVING HIS OPINION. Look, that's what I called you..I guess that's what I am too. LOOK, I USED SARCASM GO QUOTE AND AGREE WITH IT LIKE THE COMEDY GRANDMASTER THAT YOU ARE.

Hehe...even funnier. Why would anyone respect someone who acted like this:

Ohh tee hee hee. I really appreciate the way you talk down to everyone who likes Tool. Your opinion, is like, sooo respectfully written... Saying 'if you've heard one Tool song you've heard them all' is possibly the most close-minded comment I've ever heard. Whats the hells similar between Reflection and The Grudge? Parabola and Third Eye? Jimmy and Eulogy? Ok...hmm..what the fuck!?

Talk down to people? Oh do you want to be let down gently? I thought this was a mature community here, not whiney little pricks who want fucking spoon fed with negative opinions.

Yes, that is why you are close-minded. Not because of the fact you think this, but the fact that it creates a large amount of bias in your argument. If you will take the time to figure out what I wrote you will see what I meant: you base Tools 'progressiveness' and I think quality against your favourite band Radiohead. You obviously like Radiohead so much that in the very act of comparing these two COMPLETLY AND UTTERLY DIFFERENT groups a strong bias AGAINST Tool is created in your argument. Nuff said.

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT CLOSE-MINDED MEANS, YOU STUPID LITTLE SHIT? What you're saying is, that if I go buy a computer game called 'Car Thief And Civillian Killer' and it's shit compared to Grand Theft Auto, I'm close minded for commenting on this, AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO QUOTE SOMETHING I SAID AND CALL IT STUPID, YOU SIR HAVE A SEVERE CASE OF "IDONTKNOWWHATTHEFUCKIMTALKINGABOUTTITIS".

And I'm not allowed to compare one prog-rock band to another? You all seem to think that Tool are prog-rock and there is no doubt that Radiohead are, SO WHY IS COMPARING THE TWO TO SHOW HOW LITTLE PROG-ROCK ELEMENTS TOOL CONTAIN SO FUCKING HARD TO GRASP FOR YOU?

And I find it amusing you react to my Tool-bias statement by trying to make out I have some anti-Tool bias. Guilty reaction? I think sooooo!

No you don't dislike Tool, you dislike Tools fans. You have NEVER EVER known a Tool fan as annoying, pretentious and arrogant as my friend Dan. Trust me...he is the worlds most fucking arrogant Tool fan on earth, he is the embodiment of pretentiousness, and sometimes I want to rip my ears off just so I don't have to hear the CRAP he goes on about.

Uhh..thanks for repeating what I've already said and giving me some info I don't really give two fucks about.

However, I've never let my hatred of exhibit A: 'The Know-it-all Tool fan' effect how much I like the music itself. Also, the way you label every Tool fan as being one of these is pretty pretentious. You say Tool hasn't changed their sound, I say: 'TRY LISTENING', because I don't get how you cannot hear the difference between say Opiate and Lateralus.

I never let Tool fans effect my opinion on Tool, I already explained why I don't like Tool as much as I used to, maybe if you actually read my posts you wouldn't be drawing such ignorant conclusions for yourself.

Cannot hear the difference between Opiate and Lateralus? I've already said at least 2 or 3 times in this topic that I don't have Opiate and don't plan to listen to it, WAY TO GO YOU. There is a sound difference between Undertow and Lateralus, but if you cannot look past the actual sound the instruments make then I don't even have time for you.

Look, I'm trying to respect your opinion here...but its hard when you right things as STUPID as the above. I mean seriously...that utter crap doesn't even deserve to be adressed, it speaks for itself.

Or in other words, "OH SHIT I CAN'T EXACTLY ARGUE WITH THAT BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING RIGHT SO LET'S REPLY WITH A PREDICTABLE CLICHÉD SO STUPID IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF REPLY. PS - I AM A MORON".

And I'll just paste this since it shut up that other guy who was also dwelling on a point I made 10 posts ago,

And the fact I've already said that my original Sober to Schism comparison was nothing but a parting shot that everyone is over reacting to and you're STILL going on about it is even more ironic.

My description of Sober is equally simplified, and if I was to start talking about the differences between the riffs and the styles it wouldn't exactly compliment my argument would it? Keenan probably didn't even mean to write Schism with the exact same techniques he used in Sober, it's just his blatant lack of creativity means when he comes to the end of his short array of little tricks and hooks he starts using the old ones again. Perhaps "structure" was the wrong word to use when comparing what Sober and Schism have in common, but replace it with whatever the technical term for both songs having vocal crescendo's during the chorus, repetitive basic riff - melodic guitar combo, slow interlude before resuming normal functions and almost indentical outros, is.

Just as I thought!

LOL, GOOD ONE STATIC!!! That's almost as hilarious as your failed attempt to use vB Code.

 

[Static]

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
I didn't ask anyone to respect my opinion, I just give unto others what they give unto me. Explain exactly how somebody calling people pretentious and arrogant makes them either? You're a retard who got pissy because he got owned so you're totally changing your stance from defending Tool to OMG YOU'RE SUCH A NAUGHTY GUY WHO NEEDS TO BROWN NOSE PEOPLE WHEN GIVING HIS OPINION. Look, that's what I called you..I guess that's what I am too. LOOK, I USED SARCASM GO QUOTE AND AGREE WITH IT LIKE THE COMEDY GRANDMASTER THAT YOU ARE.

This pretty much displays everything I was just talking bout. You've got some fucked up psycho problem, I didn't act like THIS much of a fuckwit when I replied to you before. Don't piss yourself bud.

Talk down to people? Oh do you want to be let down gently? I thought this was a mature community here, not whiney little pricks who want fucking spoon fed with negative opinions.

Oh no master...you are right, I'm immature. Try reading what the above says to yourself...what is mature about that? I am sorry MA, from now I will be like you and try and bludgeon my opinion upon people, because thats obviously mature by your reckoning.

DO YOU EVEN KNOW WHAT CLOSE-MINDED MEANS, YOU STUPID LITTLE SHIT? What you're saying is, that if I go buy a computer game called 'Car Thief And Civillian Killer' and it's shit compared to Grand Theft Auto, I'm close minded for commenting on this, AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO QUOTE SOMETHING I SAID AND CALL IT STUPID, YOU SIR HAVE A SEVERE CASE OF "IDONTKNOWWHATTHEFUCKIMTALKINGABOUTTITIS"[/B]

Ummm...yeah...that part kinda lacks a point. Yes, you are...that probably answers whatever it is your were saying...even if I don't know what I'm talking about, I'm also hella unsure as to what exactly your trying to justify!?? Could you try making sense? Thanks.

ps. I'm a 'little shit' now!? Umm...ok then.

And I'm not allowed to compare one prog-rock band to another? You all seem to think that Tool are prog-rock and there is no doubt that Radiohead are, SO WHY IS COMPARING THE TWO TO SHOW HOW LITTLE PROG-ROCK ELEMENTS TOOL CONTAIN SO FUCKING HARD TO GRASP FOR YOU?

And I find it amusing you react to my Tool-bias statement by trying to make out I have some anti-Tool bias. Guilty reaction? I think sooooo!

I don't think of them as prog-rock cos they ain't. They're prog metal. They contain no prog-rock elements, correct, cos they ain't, they're prog metal. Why is comparing them so fucking hard to grasp for me? Because Tool is not prog-rock and frankly, why the fuck does it have to contain prog-'rock' elements to be considered 'prog'. They are 'progressive metal'...sheesh.

And yep, you got me on that last one, I felt guilty because, umm, well y'know I thought it would be fun to turn your argument against you...its how I get my kicks y'know.

Uhh..thanks for repeating what I've already said and giving me some info I don't really give two fucks about.

That 'Uhhh...thanks' at the start of that sentence was really polite of you. Thank you!

I never let Tool fans effect my opinion on Tool, I already explained why I don't like Tool as much as I used to, maybe if you actually read my posts you wouldn't be drawing such ignorant conclusions for yourself.

I did read your posts. Its just you contradicted yourself by saying that stuff and than going on and on about how you hate the fans. It also seemed your hate of the fans was possibly an important factor of your opinion. Nuff said.

There is a sound difference between Undertow and Lateralus, but if you cannot look past the actual sound the instruments make then I don't even have time for you.

Didn't know you hadn't heard Opiate...*shrug*...anyways, oh yes, we must overlook one of the most important things in making songs sound different from one another THE INSTRUMENTS!! BWHAHAHA!! No. You may also want to hit me with some 'structured the same' bullshit...of course some of the songs are similarly structured but many of them bear little resemblence to one another. Just like any band. So I say...what the fuck you on about?

Or in other words, "OH SHIT I CAN'T EXACTLY ARGUE WITH THAT BECAUSE HE'S FUCKING RIGHT SO LET'S REPLY WITH A PREDICTABLE CLICHÉD SO STUPID IT SPEAKS FOR ITSELF REPLY. PS - I AM A MORON"..

lol! Ya got me! Thats exactly what I was trying to say!

LOL, GOOD ONE STATIC!!! That's almost as hilarious as your failed attempt to use vB Code.

One day I'll learn...you'll see...I'LL SHOW YOU ALL!!!


I'm beginning to have trouble taking you seriously as you are now just ranting like a deranged lunatic.

 

[Masters Apprentice]

I just typed out a reply to you and got "too many images" bullshit, pressed back and my reply was gone.

I don't care enough to type it all up again, but I will type out what I finished my post with again:

I don't like Tool fans because they take negative opinions about Tool like insults to them as people; they are ridiculously overprotective of music they didn't even create. At the end of the day, music all depends on how it is interpreted by the listener, if I find all of Tools material to be samey, who the fuck are you to argue otherwise? How can how I interpret Tool's music be right or wrong? It's an opinion, like how people interpret art or interpret a film, there is no right or wrong, and the reaction from most of the fanboys in this topic has been ridiculous. You have to try and look at things from someone elses perspective, which apparently no one can do.

And my opinion of Tool is that they have better-than-mediocre album which is Aenima, they are generally boring and tie with Pink Floyd as the most overrated band on the planet.

That's my opinion, if you don't like it go tell someone who cares.

 

[deathbearer]

I agree, Tool are completly overrated..There are sooo many bands in the undergorund that use more progressive elements than Tool..I don't understand why people are taking this personally..Yes, I've enjoyed Aenima by Tool..Some of the responses to my opinions were down right nasty and ignorant..Including a very stupid post wanting Opeth to be as big as the TRL bands..MTV's TRL is below standard with POP bands, and boy bands..Yes, Tool were one of Genration X's first popular alternative hard rock now labeled NU METAL bands.No Tool are not METAL but alternative rock..Tool are not metal in the extreme sense of the word(death,grind, doom, black metal)..Yes, Tool are completly overrated compared to less commercial bands on indie labels like Dillenger Escape Plan, Yakuza, Neurosis,Cryptopsy and even Mike Patton's Fantomas who while opening for Tool this year wiped the floor with the bloody carcass of the headliner..I've been flamed for not liking or thinking that Tool are a progressive band..LOL..I've called an idiot for not wathing MTV like a moth to the flame, and prefering that Opeth play with wonderful bands like My Dying Bride, Anethema, Arch Enemy..The Nu metal trend consists of Tool wannabees Staind also, who DON'T incorperate rap into there music..So NU METAL is not always defined by rap/core.. Tool just doesn't do it for me like Opeth's previous releases and Tool are not as progressive as bands like Cynic, Death, Athiest, Agolloch,Yakuza, Cephalic Carnage, DEP and many others..Instead of wishing that Opeth shorten thier songs to get airplay for MTV's TRL (sic), I would prefer that Opeth support underground progressive death doom bands also.. I'm sorry that these (fans) of Opeth are annoyed by my opinions (I'm free to express them here and in the USA) but if I'm going to listen to something progressive I'll listen to John Zorn.. NOT Tool who are overrrated as thier are promoted by major labels and that is perhaps is the ONLY reason that they are so accesible (on ther own terms) It's strange that these Tool fans take it so personllly that I don't like that band, but these same pople don't dig deep in to the underground for something more progresive..There is alot of progressive music out there, including but not limited too Opeth..Go find it..Check out DEP, Yakuza, MDB, Cephalic Carnage, Anathema, John Zorn and compare them to Tool and you too would think that Tool were overrated, and NOT that progressive if not for one CD (Aenima)..I'm sorry that people on this board are so uptight and take it so personally that my musical tastes are more progressive than the Lalapalooza generations Tool..I've been listing to Opeth since '97 and have always found them more interesting than TOOL..So stop flaming me..Hails..-l-

 

[J.]

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
I don't like Tool fans because they take negative opinions about Tool like insults to them as people; they are ridiculously overprotective of music they didn't even create. At the end of the day, music all depends on how it is interpreted by the listener, if I find all of Tools material to be samey, who the fuck are you to argue otherwise? How can how I interpret Tool's music be right or wrong? It's an opinion, like how people interpret art or interpret a film, there is no right or wrong, and the reaction from most of the fanboys in this topic has been ridiculous. You have to try and look at things from someone elses perspective, which apparently no one can do.

THe same can be said for Opeth fans. (or any band for that matter i guess)

 

[Heret1c]

toolfans dont like when other people are too lazy or too stupid to sit down and listen to and try to understand their music...
thats why they get so intolerant... well there are enough toolfans who are as stupid as your 0815 metallica/manowar/slayer fans or a fan of megadeth who's an interesting person you'd like to talk about.
and i say it for you all flamers, that you have an absolute right for your opinion, you gotta have one, but dont tell the people the band is total shit if you dont like it...
well mdb and anathema is good i agree, and neurosis is great... but hey if you dont bother try just looking at the tabs to for instance the return of the beautiful or your river and then take a toolsong thats half that long... try to notice the difference and then at least stop shouting that tool sucks ass.
a bit tolerance is really nice you know.
and pink floyd are fucking gods IMO, well you get the music or you dont. no other band (besides tool and opeth) reaches the atmosphere and intensity of pf. maybe you'll get the rage of neurosis pretty close but they dont cover the whole spectre of emotions.
well ive tried to clear it up a bit... but well lets have respect for each other and our opinions... no matter if toolfan or not or like deliverance or not or any other shit...

 

[Masters Apprentice]

Originally posted by Dreamlord
THe same can be said for Opeth fans. (or any band for that matter i guess)

Maybe on here, but I'm talking from a broader perspective that almost every Tool fan has had a really shitty attitude. I think a lot of other people(even some Tool fans) have touched on it in this topic, so I'm glad I'm not the only one.

Opeth fans are actually some of the best I've came across, this is the only forum I visit dedicated to one band..I usually stick to the general discussion type forums, mainly because my favourite band changes so often..

 

[demon talented]

Masters Apprentice: you really are acting like an idiot. You'd rather have people completely disagree with you than agree with you because you can continue your "holier than thou" attitude.

Static presented his arguments very reasonably, and you reacted rather ignorantly.

By the way, I enjoy Radiohead. They are very original and go in many different directions. I respect their experimental attitude, but just because a band doesn't change their sound every two albums doesn't make them not progressive lol: ), which comes off as your whole argument. It's not a good comparison.

About the previous comment about Radiohead's singer's voice: I didn't like it originally, but it has completely grown on me.

Originally posted by Static
ps. @TheLedTool...You are right, they have progressed a in a massive way since their beginnings with Opiate...which I liked better than Undertow, which has been my least favourite Tool ever since I got it years ago.

Undertow wasn't really a prog. album... that's not my complaint about it - the lyrics weren't developed. I agree that Opiate is actually better than Undertow, although they both have their classics.

I am so glad that Tool gave up their cursing thing. It really has helped their aesthetic, although a bunch of idiots cried "sell out!"

Lateralus is truly a masterful album.


Also, one thing about Tool fans:
Don't get all jumpy because people worship Maynard like a god. Tool is simply the best thing to be remotely mainstream in the current music scene. Because nothing can really compare to them with modern, popular artists, they naturally think Tool must just be the best thing that ever happened to music. It is ignorant, and that is disrespectful. But don't make it sound like all Tool fans are like that, and certainly don't attack Tool just because of how their fans act. Also, Maynard has an extremely powerful voice, in the sense that it can affect people (a lot of people) emotionally. If more Tool fans expanded their tastes, they'd have more than ONE artist that could do that, and they wouldn't feel the need to practically worship Tool.

It seems some here have done that with Opeth and Tool? Bolth bands are very potent, although very, very different.

 

[wach0052]

This is moronic. Get lives. This happens at every controversial post. The first couple pages are fine, then two or more people get into a battle of 'wits' where they really just show how insecure they are, and my outlook on our species drops a little more...

and by the way...listen to the music for what it is: MUSIC!, not progressive nu-rock/metal alternabop. I think Tool plays awesome music. Oh, and another thing along those lines, what the hell is up with judging a band by their fans, or judging their fans period? My God...how old are you people?

 

[jester00]

Originally posted by wach0052
what the hell is up with judging a band by their fans, or judging their fans period? My God...how old are you people?

when a band's fanbase generally makes a habbit of "boo'ing" opening acts of the stage i think its fair to judge them and judge them harsly as


ARSEHOLES

 

[deathbearer]

I've never said I didn't like a few of Tools songs too..Intolerance("You lie, cheat and steal I can't tolerate you") is awesome but I don't think of them as progressive..I've opened my mind to other music during the last ten years..I liked Primus 10 years ago too but I also listened to MDB, Testamant, Posessed, and Death.. I grew up, and I didn't like Laturalus, all the songs sounded the same and the Cd seemed plodding as JM Keenen wasn't even in the studio (he was on tour with Perfect Cirlce when Lateralus was recorded) so the CD sounded dissjointed.. and boring..Keenen's got a good voice, but there's more progressive, brutal and yes, more emotional music in the underground..By the way, check out a band Maudlin of The Well who have a message board right here on Ultimate Metal..MOTW are very interesting, etheral, progressive doom, takes you places that Tool can't..

 

[Eternal_Decadent]

I can't understand why Tool are considered nu-metal. Tool was formed in the same era than the Seattle grunge. anyway i like both bands.

 

[Masters Apprentice]

Originally posted by TheLedTool
Masters Apprentice: you really are acting like an idiot.

No I'm not..simple as that.

You'd rather have people completely disagree with you than agree with you because you can continue your "holier than thou" attitude.

I don't think I'm holier or better than anyone, the fact that I dress like the Pope is purely coincidental.

Static presented his arguments very reasonably, and you reacted rather ignorantly.

I disagree with both, and please explain how I reacted ignorantly? That word is thrown around a lot and I'm 90% sure most of you use it without understanding what it actually means.

By the way, I enjoy Radiohead. They are very original and go in many different directions. I respect their experimental attitude, but just because a band doesn't change their sound every two albums doesn't make them not progressive lol: ), which comes off as your whole argument. It's not a good comparison.

Okay, so OKC, KID A and Amnesiac aren't prog-rock..riiiiight.

Also, one thing about Tool fans:
Don't get all jumpy because people worship Maynard like a god. Tool is simply the best thing to be remotely mainstream in the current music scene.

Hmm..I think the vast majority of people prefer Radiohead to Tool..they have a far bigger fanbase and they are extremely mainstream, to the point of pop. But the fact that bands like AFI, The Dillinger Escape Plan and Godspeed regard them as one of the most important bands in music right now speaks for itself, as none of them are even remotely similar to their genre.

But whatever, I'm done with this debate. I'll only reply to personal attacks like this one.

 

[demon talented]

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
I don't think I'm holier or better than anyone, the fact that I dress like the Pope is purely coincidental.

By the way, I have enjoyed your presence here in general, but you give the impression you're a complete asshole. You act too personally towards things though.

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
I disagree with both, and please explain how I reacted ignorantly? That word is thrown around a lot and I'm 90% sure most of you use it without understanding what it actually means.

ig·no·rant Pronunciation Key (gnr-nt)
adj.
1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

How about you are unaware that people may actually see things differently than you? And therefore, you should actually act reasonably when discussing things, instead of going for idiotic insults and cheap attacks at artists? Also, you've made a habit of attacking Tool fans, rather than making clear arguments towards Tool's actual music.

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
Okay, so OKC, KID A and Amnesiac aren't prog-rock..riiiiight.

Actually, they are very progressive. I'd be more willing to question whether it's actually "rock" though?

I think it's an interesting approach, and I think they'll get better with it in time. I like guitars in my music, unfortunately for me.

My original point was actually you could be progressive and not change your sound so dramatically.

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
Hmm..I think the vast majority of people prefer Radiohead to Tool..they have a far bigger fanbase and they are extremely mainstream, to the point of pop.

Um...OK Computer has only gone gold, I believe, while Tool has two double platinum albums and a platinum album. Tool's Lateralus went gold in one or two weeks.

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
But the fact that bands like AFI, The Dillinger Escape Plan and Godspeed regard them as one of the most important bands in music right now speaks for itself, as none of them are even remotely similar to their genre.

Sure. They are a very important band. That has very little to do with the argument though.

Originally posted by Masters Apprentice
But whatever, I'm done with this debate. I'll only reply to personal attacks like this one.

You whine like a bitch that others disagree with you, give really awful (unfocused) arguments, and then consider any criticism as a personal attack. It's really pathetic.

 

[Masters Apprentice]

I still think I'm anything but ignorant, I'm a jerk and a hotheaded fool when I get into debates - which I have no problem with by the way, I enjoy posting that way and so I do..what other people think of me does not concern me..but ignorant is one thing I don't consider myself. *shrug* I don't whine when people disagree with me either..but if being called an asshole, an idiot and ignorant isn't a personal attack I don't know what is.

I'm reallly bored of this topic, I feel like I'm debating 500 different issues at the same time..I've totally lost my viewpoint on any issue I was debating also. Putting Radiohead into the debate as an example just totally threw people off my original points and I've also argued the same points over and over..

In retrospect, I feel I've worded MANY of my points wrongly, such as structure of songs being the same and all the albums being the same. I meant the songs had exactly the same techniques and that each album consists of one main theme which is repeated throughout..because quite frankly to say Undertow and Lateralus are the same is fucking stupid, and I don't know why I ever said it in the first place. I blame my hatred of Tool fans..and the thing is that you guys are actually mellow compared to most of them.

So, to be honest I'm not going to talk about Tool at all now..or maybe when this valium wears off I'll start getting pissy again. So in the meantime, I think we should all pay attention to this macro I've made

 

[demon talented]

Now that's more like it!

I didn't say you were ignorant, necessarily, but you sounded very ignorant in the way you argued. I don't mind when people have differing opinions from my own, honestly, but I greatly dislike a bad argument.

It's obvious you're not an idiot, but you should learn to restrain yourself a bit and trying to express yourself better, if you want people to listen to you. Then, I think I (and others) would be able to fully appreciate your views on things.

 

[KielbasaSausage]

Originally posted by wach0052
Oh, and another thing along those lines, what the hell is up with judging a band by their fans, or judging their fans period? My God...how old are you people?

you fool. noone on this thread made fun of tool because of their idiotic fanbase. it was simply just brought up that a lot of tools fans are retarded (that goes for every other band as well.)