Serious genre question (no yuksters)

MasterOLightning said:
I don't think they really identify it as metal. Surprisingly few of these people make it to this board compared to how many of them are out there. It would be a tough audience to attract because they seem to care about scene aspects rather than actual music.
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or any metal board. i imagine all of us post on other various metal boards. have any of them seen a major influx of kids saying "koRn rulz!!!"? i havnt
~gR~
 
MasterOLightning said:
I don't think they really identify it as metal. Surprisingly few of these people make it to this board compared to how many of them are out there. It would be a tough audience to attract because they seem to care about scene aspects rather than actual music.
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That's just elitist generalising really. How the hell do you know whether they identify it as metal or not? How do you know they don't love the music and not just the 'scene'?

Maybe we haven't seen many of 'these people' around here because they checked the forum out before signing up and decided they wouldn't bother because everyone here is too busy waffling on about old school thrash and death metal. Not that there's anything wrong with that of course. :p
 
What I wonder is if there is really a sizable demand for a site like that. I mean, obviously the target audience is huge (probably outnumbers the underground metal listeners by quite a large margin) but purely going by people I know or have known who listen to that type of music... they don't really seem the type of music enthusiasts who venture online to look for forums to discuss music. They mostly seem content to just listen to whatever they get exposed to from MTV and Kerrang and media like that.

I know that is a generalization to some degree and I have no factual data to back that up whatsoever, but I really do think that people on this site can be described overall as people with a more deep rooted musical enthusiasm than the new generation of metal listeners. And part of the reason why people come to websites like this is to discover new music because there is no other place you can really do that easily. I just don't think that drive really exists for most people who listen to bands like the ones listed in the topic start. And as someone else already pointed out, the current trendy metal scene might be very temporary. Look at nu-metal, it was hugely popular for a few years and is all but dead by now. So if you're going to do this you would have to make sure not to attach it too directly to a single label, or revamp the site every few years to go with the trend.

But anyway, it might be worth investigating whether the demand for a site like that is really there before sinking lots of time, money and effort into it. Other than that it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. It might steer some of them into the realm of proper metal and those who are content to stick with what they like now can talk about rubbish without being flamed by people like us.
 
CAIRATH said:
What I wonder is if there is really a sizable demand for a site like that. I mean, obviously the target audience is huge (probably outnumbers the underground metal listeners by quite a large margin) but purely going by people I know or have known who listen to that type of music... they don't really seem the type of music enthusiasts who venture online to look for forums to discuss music. They mostly seem content to just listen to whatever they get exposed to from MTV and Kerrang and media like that.

I know that is a generalization to some degree and I have no factual data to back that up whatsoever, but I really do think that people on this site can be described overall as people with a more deep rooted musical enthusiasm than the new generation of metal listeners. And part of the reason why people come to websites like this is to discover new music because there is no other place you can really do that easily. I just don't think that drive really exists for most people who listen to bands like the ones listed in the topic start. And as someone else already pointed out, the current trendy metal scene might be very temporary. Look at nu-metal, it was hugely popular for a few years and is all but dead by now. So if you're going to do this you would have to make sure not to attach it too directly to a single label, or revamp the site every few years to go with the trend.

But anyway, it might be worth investigating whether the demand for a site like that is really there before sinking lots of time, money and effort into it. Other than that it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. It might steer some of them into the realm of proper metal and those who are content to stick with what they like now can talk about rubbish without being flamed by people like us.
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I listen to Unearth/GodForbid/DieCast so I have no drive to find new music? Anyways, metalcore is here to stay, that isn't going anywhere.

You do know alot of people have diverse music tastes and listen to more than 1 type of genre, which around here is severely lackluster and anyone who likes another genre gets berated.

I personally enjoy

Melodic Death (favorite, and I get shit for it **keyboards are faggy hahaha fuck you :)*)
Some Prog metal (Persefone etc.)
Some BM
Metalcore
Folk/Viking

Anyways, if you want to make the site go ahead, I don't know why your asking these people because they have a clear bias towards that kind of music.
 
Disarmonia_Mundi said:
I listen to Unearth/GodForbid/DieCast so I have no drive to find new music?
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That's not what I said, but I know how you like to start pointless arguments so I'll indulge you. I said it was a generalization, that means it doesn't apply to everyone but *in general* people who listen mainly to mainstream metal are less interested in what sites like this have to offer because they don't need them. That is my opinion based on the people I have met. If you disagree and want to argue that then go ahead but bring something better than "I listen to those bands but I am serious about music so you're wrong" to the table.


Disarmonia_Mundi said:
You do know alot of people have diverse music tastes and listen to more than 1 type of genre, which around here is severely lackluster and anyone who likes another genre gets berated.
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I'd say go look at the album collection thread and you'll find that I probably have much more diverse music taste than you do (certainly going by the list of genres you just mentioned).

The reason why the current popular metal scene is unpopular here isn't just because they are "different", because as Deron already pointed out death, black, thrash, heavy and doom metal seem to quite happily co-exist on these forums without any problems eventhough those are all distinctly different genres. What a lot of mainstream metal lacks is sincerity and originality which probably is the main reason why it is shunned by underground metal fans. I'm sure there are exceptions to the rule, but you cannot in your right mind deny that a lot of mainstream metal (just like the mainstream segment of any other genre really) is utter shit and completely meaningless in terms of artistic integrity and longevity.

How many bands that were huge during the nu-metal fad a few years ago are still being talked about or doing anything relevant today? How many made any real impact on the metal scene today and the metal scene 10 years from now? Do you think Slipknot and Korn will be remembered the same way Iron Maiden will be? No, they won't. And the same thing is going to happen with the current batch of overhyped shit bands. Record labels will continue pushing them and coming out with even more similar sounding bland ripoff bands trying to hit that sweet sweet target audience they are marketing so well, until the target audience gets sick of it (as happened with nu-metal) and those bands disappear. Then it's just waiting for the next fad to come along and the whole process starts over again.
 
Many people that listen to these bands DON'T see it any different than what we call "metal". I know a fair few kids that like Trivium and whatnot, and they don't subcatorgorize metal. To them it's all the same, it's their typer of music and they don't find the need to listen to any "real" metal because usually they aren't aware there is even other kinds of metal out there. People enjoy this faux metal, it appeals to them, and it's easy to find. Of course they're going to listen to what they read about in Kerrang and Metal Hammer, that's where they get their sources from, just as I do by talking to other prog fans and reading reviews on the internet.

But yeah, I'm going to agree with the rest of you. I myself believe all this mainstream music is complete crap, but I'm not going to say that to their fans because that's what they like. I don't really have a place to put down anything that that they listen to and enjoy. Though I will bash people that only like a band for the status, or anyone that says that they don't like a band because "they're mainstream now and I liked them before anyone else did"
 
CAIRATH said:
What I wonder is if there is really a sizable demand for a site like that. I mean, obviously the target audience is huge (probably outnumbers the underground metal listeners by quite a large margin) but purely going by people I know or have known who listen to that type of music... they don't really seem the type of music enthusiasts who venture online to look for forums to discuss music. They mostly seem content to just listen to whatever they get exposed to from MTV and Kerrang and media like that.

I know that is a generalization to some degree and I have no factual data to back that up whatsoever, but I really do think that people on this site can be described overall as people with a more deep rooted musical enthusiasm than the new generation of metal listeners. And part of the reason why people come to websites like this is to discover new music because there is no other place you can really do that easily. I just don't think that drive really exists for most people who listen to bands like the ones listed in the topic start. And as someone else already pointed out, the current trendy metal scene might be very temporary. Look at nu-metal, it was hugely popular for a few years and is all but dead by now. So if you're going to do this you would have to make sure not to attach it too directly to a single label, or revamp the site every few years to go with the trend.

But anyway, it might be worth investigating whether the demand for a site like that is really there before sinking lots of time, money and effort into it. Other than that it doesn't seem like a bad idea to me. It might steer some of them into the realm of proper metal and those who are content to stick with what they like now can talk about rubbish without being flamed by people like us.
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best post in the whole thread:kickass:

I totally agree with you.
 
Trivium sucks now, they were good with Ember to Inferno.

And to cairath, I wasn't talking about Nu-Metal, I was talking about metalcore. If you classify metalcore as mainstream (some bands are, but there are a ton that aren't) and you say it has no longevity, then why has the genre been around since the early 90's and still going strong? You say it has no "artistic value", but I disagree. Just because it isn't Bach's sixth symphony or what have you, doesn't devalue it. Yes, I do agree with you about Nu-metal, but I disagree with you about metalcore. I also disagree you about the fans of said genre, because all my friends listen to metalcore also, but also listen to BM/MelodicDeath/someProg also. Honestly neither of us can make a valid opinion based on this matter because really our sample sizes are so small to even hint at coming anything near what were looking for. When you can make a scientific poll and a sample size of over 5000 people, then we may see how "illiterate" the fans of the genre are.

Now again IM NOT TALKING ABOUT NU-METAL!!!!

Killswitch has been around for 7+ years (albeit alot better with the old lead singer), and still going strong.
All That Remains has been around since 1998. (I can name a ton more bands that have been around for 8+ years)

And just listen to a band like The Autumn Offering, I'm sure you can find some "artistic" value in them surely.
 
Disarmonia_Mundi said:
Now again IM NOT TALKING ABOUT NU-METAL!!!!
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I wasn't talking strictly about nu-metal either, I was talking about mainstream metal (which is not synonymous to metalcore since there is plenty of non-mainstream metalcore) and merely used nu-metal as an example of how fleeting mainstream scenes are. Going by the list of bands that Deron posted in the topic start, the vast majority of that falls under the category nu-metal or mainstream metalcore.

I am well aware that metalcore has existed since the late 80's and is not a new genre at all. What hasn't existed since the late 80's is the popular variant of metalcore that is so prevalent today, where elements of Gothenburg death metal that have already been completely done to death by the Swedish melodeath scene in the mid-90's are being blatantly and uninspiredly rehashed and mixed with hardcore breakdowns, emo influences and other metalcore characteristics to form the current mainstream metalcore trend. There is nothing groundbreaking or innovative about that style of music whatsoever.

That's just focusing on mainstream metalcore. Traditional metalcore is an entirely different discussion and going by the initial list of bands isn't really what Deron was referring to I think.
 
CAIRATH said:
I wasn't talking strictly about nu-metal either, I was talking about mainstream metal (which is not synonymous to metalcore since there is plenty of non-mainstream metalcore) and merely used nu-metal as an example of how fleeting mainstream scenes are. Going by the list of bands that Deron posted in the topic start, the vast majority of that falls under the category nu-metal or mainstream metalcore.

I am well aware that metalcore has existed since the late 80's and is not a new genre at all. What hasn't existed since the late 80's is the popular variant of metalcore that is so prevalent today, where elements of Gothenburg death metal that have already been completely done to death by the Swedish melodeath scene in the mid-90's are being blatantly and uninspiredly rehashed and mixed with hardcore breakdowns, emo influences and other metalcore characteristics to form the current mainstream metalcore trend. There is nothing groundbreaking or innovative about that style of music whatsoever.

That's just focusing on mainstream metalcore. Traditional metalcore is an entirely different discussion and going by the initial list of bands isn't really what Deron was referring to I think.
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To be fair, there really isn't much "Innovative" music coming out anymore because there's only so much one can do. The only innovative bands are the ones thinking outside the box using new instruments, mostly in the area of Folk. I don't listen to music to hear "new innovations" or anything like that. If what I hear is entertaining then I'll listen to it. I don't really care much if it's been done before, because quite frankly, everything has all ready been basically done. Theres only so many note chords/progressions one can do. That's just my take.

I know you disagree, I'm just letting you know where I'm coming from, and afterall isn't this what boards are for is to debate :)
 
Susperia said:
I just call it core.... Metalcore, Mallcore, eh it's all the same to me.
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Ignorance.

All of these bands range from metal to partially metal to not even close to metal. Also, yuksters?!

Oh wow this became a shitty thread...WHO KNEW?! Deron, if you've got your answer, please close this topic before it gets nuts. Stupid genre arguments.
 
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