Should Marijuana be legalized?

[BeliUmberto]

Alcohol, tobacco and weed should all be illegal since they are poison in their long term effects and turn men into couch potatoes for short term.

 

[PhantoMPhones]

Tobbaco does damage to the lungs.
Marijuana does damage to the brain cells.

thats the main difference..

Umm.. where did you obtain this information? Firstly, Tobacco does damage to a LOT more than just your pulmonary system. Secondly, Marijuana DOES NOT KILL BRAIN CELLS. In fact, this is one of the major arguments when comparing alcohol to marijuana. Alcohol destroys brain cells every time you ingest it, not to mention liver, kidney, and behavioural effects.

I have been a solid toker for at LEAST 9 years, and when I say solid I mean at least a 0.5g joint per day, of canadian bud. I am currently in my THIRD post secondary program, studying environmental-civil engineering. I just finished my year off with a 93% average in my class, thats a 3.72 out of 4.00 GPA (thats how it works here at least anyways.) To give you a context for that figure, my program started with 75 students. Over the course of ONE academic year, the class had shrunk to 32 students. By graduation, only a dozen or so will graduate. It is by no means, an easy program. So either I was the next Hawking and I'm gradually dumbing myself down to the average IQ of any given rap 'artist' *laugh* (lol, yes meant as a joke) or I have some magical immunity to the neurological effects of marijuana, OR it doesn't effect you as much as some people would like you to believe.

 

[Perpetual Catatonia]

It would be better if governments made money out of it instead of criminal drug dealers though.

They're criminals because marijuana is illegal.

I've never thought that legalizing marijuana would be a bad thing. It doesn't seem to harm humans anymore than alcool does. I've never seen someone start a fight, abuse their family or get some sort of poisoning because they've "had a little too much to smoke".

I'm not saying it does no harm, it's just not comparable to some of the things we do[/] allow to be sold in America.

 

[Meh]

Did some actually try and legitimize the ATF? The American Gestapo.

Anyway, for me it doesn't make a difference. I just get tired of people saying "duuuuude I got so stoned last night," like anyone actually gives a damn. Maybe if it were legal, the 'stigma' of it would be done away with and that would cease; which is reason enough for me.

I've never heard of anyone dying from pot, so if cigarettes are legal (and ignoring that farce of a medical team that says it doesn't cause cancer) what's the difference?

vihris-gari, look up the absurd crack/cocaine laws.

Personally, I think people should be shot for doing such drugs as coke and crack, etc - but the laws regarding them lack logic.

On another note, thanks to meth heads I have to sign a sheet to get anything containing sudo.

I refuse to SIGN a document and present ID just to cease a cold.

 

[Meh]

Don't forget that legalising pot would open the door for the legalisation of tons of other drugs that have been unjustly demonised by government propaganda. Pot is more or less a 'cheap buzz' in the grand scheme of things, but hallucinogens have had a prominent role in religion for millennia, and many people consider them a very important part of spirituality. Not to mention that a lot of classic art and music in recent history was inspired by psychedelics.

LSD was used in marriage counseling up until the early '70s I believe.

I have no problem with hallucinogens either.

Yeah, I've heard the penalty for crack is like 10+ times worse than for cocaine. But of course our entire drug policy system is a big joke, so that's pretty much par for the course.

I'm not sure on the specifics, but since cocaine is the "rich mans" drug and so forth, it's "classy." Get caught with cocaine and you'll get a slap on the wrist, crack will net you 5 years in sufficient quantity.

 

[Dak]

you havent thought very deeply if you believe that is all drugs effect and bring harm. So have a few kids.... you really care about... then get back to me

Riiight. If I do a shitty job raising my kids , or they just look at all the facts and decide to do drugs or some other self-harming habit/act, it isn't THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT'S job to try and prevent it.

I have put plenty of thought into the whole thing, and been around a bit.I don't have my own kids but I helped raise several younger siblings, doesn't change my opinions on gov't staying the fuck out of where they have no business.

 

[razoredge]

Just because it's traceable doesn't mean they can't test for a certain amount of it in your system. They do that with alcohol anyway - if you blow under a certain level, you don't get in trouble. What's so impossible about this?

So what are they going to do, drag everyone to "the station" and do some elaborate test to determeine how much and when. You clearly dont understand that alcohol on the breath is easy and straight forward. There is nothing like this for drugs

I'll assume you mean "even though alcohol is legal". Anyway, I really don't know what kind of a point you think you have here, because even if they don't allow people to grow it themselves, it will clearly still be more beneficial to pot smokers for the drug to be legal. Even if it's taxed and regulated to the point of absurdity, it will at least be out in the open, and people will see that pot is not actually the Devil. Gradually it will gain more support, and the restrictions will be loosened further. It's just nonsensical to oppose legalisation if it doesn't make pot 100%, no-strings-attached legal.

Im a smoker and no way in hell do I now or ever did I want the stuff legal. It got expensive enough back in the late 70's, which led to most growing their own and once again... MAKE NO MISTAKE is will still be illegal to grow. You have now brought the IRS and pretty much ATF (ATFM lol) into the picture... sorry I'd rather deal with the pigs and BTW in over 30 years have never once been "caught". I see NO PROBLEM.

You can definitely go to jail for getting caught repeatedly with pot. I don't know what percentage of drug imprisonments are due to pot (and my fucking work place is blocking the Wikipedia article on drug laws due to too many occurrences of the word 'drugs'), but I'm pretty sure the majority of people in jail are there for drug-related crimes, which is ridiculous.

Only people I know that did a little bit of time were dealers or large volumn growers

If the government weren't so goddamn heavy-handed and moralistic about drug policy, we'd be spending billions less per year jailing people for 'offenses' that harm no one but themselves, and our police would be more available to enforce laws that actually help society rather than make criminals out of people who are doing no harm to others.

Somebody turns someone else on to drugs they are bringing harm to another as well as that persons family and friends. There is no heavy handedness on weed. Outside of this recent employment drug testing

Like I said, you're missing the point. Having weed legal and taxed is of greater benefit to pot-smokers, and pretty much the entire pro-drug movement around the world, than having it illegal and suppressed with an iron fist. Once formerly-illegal drugs gain enough support and people realise how much safer and less addictive they are than alcohol and tobacco, the taxes will most likely go down. At any rate, I really don't care if you "have a problem with" the government making money off of drugs. I'd rather the government make money off of them and put that money to use somehow than just waste billions of dollars in a pointless war on drugs.

You havent had enough time in the world to witness tax money flying out your pocket like no tomorrow it would be of NO benefit to smokers. Anyone with enough time in and around the drug culture would never deny the negative effect drugs have on people and certainly would never say "people realise how much safer and less addictive they are than alcohol and tobacco"... makes me want to ask you what drug are you on......

Um, because if it's legal then they don't have to worry about getting caught, fined, having their property confiscated, losing their jobs, and becoming unemployable for any company that requires a security clearance? I can't believe I actually have to point this out to you.

Sorry man, this doesnt happen to smokers, only dealers, only stupid smokers get caught, I mean someones got to work really hard to get busted for smoking

This is just silly. Corporations don't murder people on the streets like drug dealers do.

I think the drug related murders are a good thing. Not the best population control but a good start and in the right area. sorry, no compassion there

Legalising drugs makes the violent crime surrounding the drug trade disappear.

Oh really ? So now the crack head, heroin, ect. addict wont be a scumbag anymore to get their hands on the money needed no matter what it takes ? Whos silly ?

And you might as well be calling corporations "scumbags" for every other business they engage in. It's called capitalism, and it's how our economy works.

Oh you'll never hear me say that corporations are not scumbags, I just dont feel like giving them another tool. Fuck capitalism, and fuck our capitalistically FUCKED economy... yeah, I know how it works... do you ?
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So I guess you boys havent been around enough yet to see someone fry their brains on acid ? No harm there, no familys suffering, no body carrying the burden of their now emotionally handycaped child... no drug burnouts on welfare... hows that go ? riight....
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So you only get a slap on the wrist for coke ? riight... I know an ass wipe that got put away for years and I applauded. He had so many girls all fucked up in the head, coke whores, nervous issues, most are still single and look like shit, nobody wants them, but guess what they didnt start out that way.
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Did I hear someone mention signing for something in a drug store ? Gee, I noticed everyone side stepped the little drug store issue. Now hows this gonna work? you just walk in a buy your recreational drug of choice, acid, coke, crack, heroin, meth, but are we still going to have doctors subcribe other serious medicine(drugs) or are we just going to put everything on the shelf, throw a HUGE sin tax on it and watch our SCUMBAG government and SCUMBAG corporations make big money off our society as it heads further into the toilet ?
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Sorry people, dream and kick all you want but it aint never gonna happen. Decriminalization of weed is the best its going to get and we already have that in my State, have since the mid 70's. Its a limited amount but that is as it should be to keep people from selling it.

 

[Meh]

Fuck capitalism, and fuck our capitalistically FUCKED economy... yeah, I know how it works... do you ?

That was so educated.

So I guess you boys havent been around enough yet to see someone fry their brains on acid ? No harm there, no familys suffering, no body carrying the burden of their now emotionally handycaped child... no drug burnouts on welfare... hows that go ? riight....

Brilliant strategy. Pretend you've been more exposed to the world of drugs than the rest of us. I grew up below the poverty line, surrounded by untermenchen.

The law regarding drugs hasn't increased or decreased drug use.

So you only get a slap on the wrist for coke ? riight... I know an ass wipe that got put away for years and I applauded. He had so many girls all fucked up in the head, coke whores, nervous issues, most are still single and look like shit, nobody wants them, but guess what they didnt start out that way.

What you "know" and what happens to the rest of the world are apparently completely different.

They had the choice. If you expect me to feel sorry for someone that made a choice to ruin their lives, you're god-damned insane.

That's the problem with this world, people are too caught up in their childish emotions.

And yes, let's waste prison space with druggies when there are murderers walking the streets. I wonder if you have any clue as to how much it costs just to imprison one person, I'd rather have that money used for people that actually deserve being locked away from society. And then we speed up death row, problem solved.

But again, people get caught up in illogical emotional pleas and somehow the death penalty is inhumane or immoral.

Did I hear someone mention signing for something in a drug store ? Gee, I noticed everyone side stepped the little drug store issue. Now hows this gonna work? you just walk in a buy your recreational drug of choice, acid, coke, crack, heroin, meth, but are we still going to have doctors subcribe other serious medicine(drugs) or are we just going to put everything on the shelf, throw a HUGE sin tax on it and watch our SCUMBAG government and SCUMBAG corporations make big money off our society as it heads further into the toilet ?

If you expect me to sign a document to purchase something other than a house or a vehicle, you're out of your fucking mind.

Sorry people, dream and kick all you want but it aint never gonna happen. Decriminalization of weed is the best its going to get and we already have that in my State, have since the mid 70's. Its a limited amount but that is as it should be to keep people from selling it.

And yet, the push for legalization grows everyday.

 

[razoredge]

Am I supposed to take this seriously? You've gone from flatly denying that legalising a drug would be of any benefit to its users, to suggesting that people who buy hard drugs deserve to die, to simply "nuh-uh"-ing the idea that weed could ever become legal, despite the fact that California and Massachusetts both have bills in the works for it. This is just pathetic dude.

If you want to keep bull-headedly presuming the worst about every possible aspect of drug legalisation while offering no evidence for your outlandish claims, this argument is just useless, and I'm not going to waste my time. You're clearly wrapped up in your own narrow opinions and unable to comprehend the bigger picture here.

No I wouldnt expect you to take anything serious. Your ideas are narrow in scope and so full of flaws that its clear you cant see the full picture, thus your inability to respond directly to any points I made. Even the contradiction occuring in posts and between the pro drug advocates is laughable.

 

[razoredge]

That was so educated.

that WAS to the point, got a problem with it ? Express yourself, Im always up for some good entertainment

Brilliant strategy. Pretend you've been more exposed to the world of drugs than the rest of us. I grew up below the poverty line, surrounded by untermenchen.

Good for you, so then your saying you are blind to the losers who got caught up in addictive drugs ?

The law regarding drugs hasn't increased or decreased drug use.

So what ? The laws on murder, rape, theft, speeding, illegal parking havent changed a thing either... lets drop them

What you "know" and what happens to the rest of the world are apparently completely different.

Laughable, Im sure theres alot of people out there running around with 500 grams of coke... yet I know many locked up for over 5 years for less than a ounce... but then your reality comes from books... no ?

They had the choice. If you expect me to feel sorry for someone that made a choice to ruin their lives, you're god-damned insane.

I dont feel sorry for anyone fucking up their life, but it seems the pro drug peeps are. Regardless addictive drugs grab people quick, almost unknowing, then comes the denial stage and it just gets more pathetic from there. So you have said nothing here... nothing at all

That's the problem with this world, people are too caught up in their childish emotions.

EXACTLY THE POINT OF MY POSTS ON THIS TOPIC. Listen to the babies, "I want legal drugs. so I can do as I please" Always the pursuit of children

And yes, let's waste prison space with druggies when there are murderers walking the streets. I wonder if you have any clue as to how much it costs just to imprison one person, I'd rather have that money used for people that actually deserve being locked away from society. And then we speed up death row, problem solved.

Naw, I wouldnt have a fucking clue about how this country wastes money on fuckwads, "so please, lets legalize drugs so they stop shooting each other"......

But again, people get caught up in illogical emotional pleas and somehow the death penalty is inhumane or immoral.

Im not caught up in anything, I would support a full military movement into the dregs of America and clean the house, problem solved, fear and death is the only detourant. Be kind of hard for a dead crackhead to breed baby crackheads

If you expect me to sign a document to purchase something other than a house or a vehicle, you're out of your fucking mind.

read much ? This response has not one fucking thing to do with what that paragraph was about

And yet, the push for legalization grows everyday.

And so does anti gun laws, the abortion issue and just about every other petty thing people find to whine about. All part of the distraction so no one focuses on the real serious problems.

 

[Dak]

To put legalizing pot smoking in the same sentence as gun and abortion issues is ridiculous.

 

[razoredge]

To put legalizing pot smoking in the same sentence as gun and abortion issues is ridiculous.

SHALLOW !

It was a response to

"And yet, the push for legalization grows everyday."

and had nothing to do with degree and stems back further in the same conversation about

"The law regarding drugs hasn't increased or decreased drug use."

As well as the entire conversation

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

How Byzantine that this matter is still under debate.

Presupposing...
A. that we own our bodies
B. that we voluntarily acquired what it is we put in there
C. that one is not coerced into the act by another party
...then it is one's own business what one does with one's own body and said drugs. There are existing statues for driving while intoxicated, reckless driving, and even vehicular manslaughter so such a consideration is extraneous.

 

[Dak]

SHALLOW !

It was a response to

"And yet, the push for legalization grows everyday."

and had nothing to do with degree and stems back further in the same conversation about

"The law regarding drugs hasn't increased or decreased drug use."

As well as the entire conversation

It really isn't. To make laws about what someone can and can't do to themselves is bulllshit. Owning a gun falls under provision and/or self defense while pot pretty much should be treated as alchohol or nicotine. Not similar. Abortion involves ending a life so it isn't even remotely similar.

 

[razoredge]

I responded to a few of your "points" in my last post, but so much of what you say is brainless and incoherent that it would be a waste of my time to go through all of it. I'm sure Meh already feels that you've wasted his time since your response to his last post was based entirely on "lol u dont know nothin bout drugs i been there on the streets, ur fancy books and statistics aint shit".

If you really give a shit about having an intelligent debate here, why don't you try defending just your one claim that legalising a drug makes a drug user WORSE off than if the drug were illegal. It's plainly obvious to even the simplest idiot that if pot were legal, people who smoke pot wouldn't have to worry about fines, prison, losing their job or their possessions, becoming stigmatised by society, and losing innumerable career opportunities. If you're really that oblivious to such simple facts, why would I waste my time arguing with you?

Man, your fucked up. Its simple

I know people that went to prison for 5 years or more for less than an ounce, so yes Im saying those stats are shit. Say they werent, what does it matter if some crack dealer goes down with 5grams ? 2nd offense possession of coke of any amount puts people away around here, big deal

I dont want the government in on drug deals, sorry. I'd rather be careful and not worry about it.

It will still be illegal to grow and thats what most people do and where most comes from to those that dont grow it. This creates a problem our government is not going to like. Get it? its a major flaw in the plan, so everyone will still be sneaking around unless silly enough to pay the price its going to be with "sin taxes"

It will be impossible for cops to determine if someone just smoked or did it 2 days ago, the stuff sticks like gum in the system but doesnt mean someone is high. Get it? this creates another flaw in the plan.

I know of NO incidences of anyone loosing their possesions over getting caught with a little weed. Those that have been busted bad had alot, again this is still going to be illegal for anyone having alot, like growers.

The only thing that needs to be done is "random drug testing in the work place" needs to stop because its discriminate against weed due to how weed sticks in the system like gum and other drugs and alcohol do not. But that has become a HUGE business, do you really think our government is going to put those people out of work ? Then do you think the corporations are not going to pressure the gov to continue to allow drug testing because straight people just dont want users around. Theres one test, you piss in a cup and it comes back positive or negative, it does not indicate what drug or what volumn or what time frame. From there we are going into blood tests and whos going to pay for that ? You... everytime some cop gets a dingle berry. This is not just some simple little thing... get it ?

Now hows abouts some "idiot" anwser my question about how we are going to control drugs ? Going from those that say it should all be legal because its no ones business. Sell them off a shelf ? Then what about perscription medicine when much of its lighter than hard recreational drugs, what ? Forget about doctors prescribing, just put it all on the shelves for grabs ? Yeah, Im sure they are ready to do that. What else, make doctors prescribe coke, crack, heroin, meth, acid ? Christ we just had someone crying about signing their name for cold medicine, you think they wont be having everyone sign for even weed ?

Now minors drink... ALOT, because its easy to get someone over 21 to buy it for them. Now you dont think they will be going nuts trying to chase down and bust the of age person thats handing out the mary jane cigarettes ?

The entire thing would be such a friggin mess and hardly worth it

Lastly, you are the one thats having the problem carrying on a intelligent conversation, flapping your mouth all pissy pants and making nothing but fairy tale blanket statements in your idea of a perfect world which simply does not exist.

 

[Dak]

Man, your fucked up. Its simple

I know people that went to prison for 5 years or more for less than an ounce, so yes Im saying those stats are shit. Say they werent, what does it matter if some crack dealer goes down with 5grams ? 2nd offense possession of coke of any amount puts people away around here, big deal

I dont want the government in on drug deals, sorry. I'd rather be careful and not worry about it.

It will still be illegal to grow and thats what most people do and where most comes from to those that dont grow it. This creates a problem our government is not going to like. Get it? its a major flaw in the plan, so everyone will still be sneaking around unless silly enough to pay the price its going to be with "sin taxes"

It will be impossible for cops to determine if someone just smoked or did it 2 days ago, the stuff sticks like gum in the system but doesnt mean someone is high. Get it? this creates another flaw in the plan.

I know of NO incidences of anyone loosing their possesions over getting caught with a little weed. Those that have been busted bad had alot, again this is still going to be illegal for anyone having alot, like growers.

The only thing that needs to be done is "random drug testing in the work place" needs to stop because its discriminate against weed due to how weed sticks in the system like gum and other drugs and alcohol do not. But that has become a HUGE business, do you really think our government is going to put those people out of work ? Then do you think the corporations are not going to pressure the gov to continue to allow drug testing because straight people just dont want users around. Theres one test, you piss in a cup and it comes back positive or negative, it does not indicate what drug or what volumn or what time frame. From there we are going into blood tests and whos going to pay for that ? You... everytime some cop gets a dingle berry. This is not just some simple little thing... get it ?

Now hows abouts some "idiot" anwser my question about how we are going to control drugs ? Going from those that say it should all be legal because its no ones business. Sell them off a shelf ? Then what about perscription medicine when much of its lighter than hard recreational drugs, what ? Forget about doctors prescribing, just put it all on the shelves for grabs ? Yeah, Im sure they are ready to do that. What else, make doctors prescribe coke, crack, heroin, meth, acid ? Christ we just had someone crying about signing their name for cold medicine, you think they wont be having everyone sign for even weed ?

Now minors drink... ALOT, because its easy to get someone over 21 to buy it for them. Now you dont think they will be going nuts trying to chase down and bust the of age person thats handing out the mary jane cigarettes ?

The entire thing would be such a friggin mess and hardly worth it

Lastly, you are the one thats having the problem carrying on a intelligent conversation, flapping your mouth all pissy pants and making nothing but fairy tale blanket statements in your idea of a perfect world which simply does not exist.

Why should it be anyone's business what I grow for my own personal use? Not to mention, if it was legal, most people who use would grow their own, so dealers would be cut out.

You really don't have any good arguement as to what the positive effects to society, or drug users specifically, would be for keeping it illegal, or how the current laws positively effect society.

 

[razoredge]

It really isn't. To make laws about what someone can and can't do to themselves is bulllshit. Owning a gun falls under provision and/or self defense while pot pretty much should be treated as alchohol or nicotine. Not similar. Abortion involves ending a life so it isn't even remotely similar.

Its similiar because some where in this country, there is somebody crying one way or the other about all these topics and so many more. They all have a fairly even split amongst the population. They all have their pros and cons, their purpose and excuses and they all bring harm. Drugs end lives, the person selling another drugs is no more or no less than the one performing an abortion or the one whos gun ends up in the wrong hands or for the wrong purpose. We have controlled substances for a reason, we have Doctors prescribe medicine for a good reason. We already have crazy amounts of law suits because some Doctor screwed up. If my kid took a fall to drugs, my government made tax money off of, some rich pig corporation made money off from, I would be looking for blood.

Its nice to think this is all so simple but it just isnt

 

[razoredge]

Why should it be anyone's business what I grow for my own personal use? Not to mention, if it was legal, most people who use would grow their own, so dealers would be cut out.

You really don't have any good arguement as to what the positive effects to society, or drug users specifically, would be for keeping it illegal, or how the current laws positively effect society.

I already said this "most people who use DO would grow their own" but please learn something about our government and ALL past governing bodys in mankinds history, would you. Everyone wants to say I dont have a arguement, but Im the only one offering the reality. Everyone else is thinking in their own little fairy tale world that doesnt exist.

Current laws positively effect society ? Ok, please go learn about alcoholism. Lets go to that level with drugs ? Which are far less discriminate that booze when it comes to grabbing people.

Idealistic youth, can never see around the corner

 

[Fenrisúlfr]

A small reminder for the sake of argument. One does not argue with a cockroach, one crushes it. This poo-flinger brings nothing to the table and it would save us trouble to ignore him.

 

[razoredge]

A small reminder for the sake of argument. One does not argue with a cockroach, one crushes it. This poo-flinger brings nothing to the table and it would save us trouble to ignore him.

Crushing cockroaches is what the drug laws do. You little boy bring nothing to the table.

Suppose someone owns their body ?

As soon as drugs are made available to them they no longer own their body, the drug does and the person selling the drug.

Then I suppoe everyone would want to deny that there is a growing problem in this country now with prescribed medicines, its like everyone thinks they need a pill for everything. It just shows the direction society would go.

Nobody has put up one decent counterpoint to any of the problems I bring up. They just avoid confronting them and lay out some idealistic blanket statement thats so far from reality its pathetic.

Ya all cry like little bitches because someone opposes your half focused views, reminds me of the Jesus Freak I had crying in some Boston park back in the 70's when after 3 hours he still hadnt converted me to become reborn with his half baked logic