Stoners

[JeffTD]

And the very same tax dollars go to trying pathetically to keep these things illegal by enforcement, go complain to your government.

Valid point, but it's not as if we shouldn't try to prevent the waste of tax dollars in other areas just because its already being wasted in some. Both areas need reform, but eliminating all restrictions on substances is going to cost more and affect you more than attempting to enforce the current laws.

 

[Line666]

Valid point, but it's not as if we shouldn't try to prevent the waste of tax dollars in other areas just because its already being wasted in some. Both areas need reform, but eliminating all restrictions on substances is going to cost more and affect you more than attempting to enforce the current laws.

I would like to see the figures that show that eliminating drug restrictions is going to cost 1 trillion dollars every forty years in the US.

 

[JeffTD]

I would like to see the figures that show that eliminating drug restrictions is going to cost 1 trillion dollars every forty years in the US.

And I'd like to see the figures that show enforcement of drug laws alone costs that much?

You'd really rather have meth, heroin, crack, and pcp legal because you're ''against regulating what others put in their bodies'' and don't think it affects you? I'm glad I don't live in your world.

 

[Line666]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iLZNYd6C9SGpa2oeiZIqT-HKVrCQD9FMCM103

I don't think its going to affect me in the way you would portray it, no, thats bordering nigh on hysterics, yeah I'm sure lots of people are going to suddenly jump up and want to get a pcp habit yknow JUST CAUSE. Drugs have been part of human culture for thousands of years, you think that's ever going to stop, people will always make their own choices, its a personal freedom whether it has anything to do with your precious tax dollars, as if stoners have never paid tax dollars for you to have any services or ever will.

 

[JeffTD]

I like how that argument doesn't cite sources and only lists financial figures to support the headline claim which was just the viewpoint of a drug czar. Written in Mexico City, to boot... Totally unbiased, I'm sure!

This argument is pointless - you're never going to change your view on drugs being a legitimate personal freedom, and I'm never going to change my position against drugs and for certain kinds of legislation. Whoopeee.

 

[Notuern]

I think his argument is based on the fact that those people who will do drugs, will do them anyways.. and the drughunt puts them in prison, and in prison they cost ALLOT to society.. but at the same time, i agree.. ive met people high on PCP, and that has been some scary shit.
People go batshit crazy on that stuff, and i mean cops have actually emptied several mags in people high on pcp before they went down!

Now PCP is just one example, we have allot of amphetamine in our town, and those who are addicted to the stuff are _REALLY_ dangerous people.
In fact, i got in to a fight with a well know amphetamine user in town, because apparently i stared at him(I turned around and looked for my friend, ONCE.).
Any drugs that can affect other people in any harmful way should be illegal, that involves lsd, amphetamine, heroine, crack, pcp and more.

 

[Notuern]

BECAUSE MARIJUANA DOESN'T MAKE YOU DUMBER!!!

You are looking right through man.

Scientific studies has shown that heavy use makes you dumber, i linked to it earlier.
And dont repost your documentary with the pro-marijuana people again.

Some facts:

Virtually every presidential candidate has copped to using Marijuana at least once in their lifetime.
Tons and tons and I mean TONS of athletes smoke weed for arthritis, joint-pain, carpal tunnel, etc, etc, etc, etc. They are not dumb nor lazy.
When the new wave of white house staff came in over 25% of them had used Marijuana.
Steve Jobs of Apple smokes pot.
The creator of CNN news smokes pot.

Again, i dont think anyone has claimed that if you smoke weed you turn in to a worthless, passive sack of shit.. but heavy use will harm you(1 joint a week makes you smart, 5 joints a week make you dumb.).

 

[Line666]

Here's one with cited sources Jeff:
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/factsheets/economiccons/fact_economic.cfm

Although you've not exactly shown any evidence for your argument yet.

 

[JeffTD]

Although you've not exactly shown any evidence for your argument yet.

because there's never been a situation where all drugs were legalized in a western society and the costs of it were analized. My bad for bringing my an example that's been prevented through legislation.

But yeah, I'm done. You win buddy.

 

[Line666]

So your whole argument was based on just an assumption that you're somehow better off as you are.

You really excelled yourself on this one Jeff.

 

[Terminus]

Personally (and yeah I'm late to the discussion and didnt read shit aside from the OP) I dont think it's the pot's fault. You dont blame the gun for killing someone, you blame the person that pulled the trigger. People who are fucked are fucked from the moment they spit out afterbirth, regardless of recreational drug choice.

 

[JeffTD]

So your whole argument was based on just an assumption that you're somehow better off as you are.

You really excelled yourself on this one Jeff.

And yours is based on one that you're somehow worse of as you are. Neither of our arguments holds much weight and neither serves any purpose other than to reinforce our own personal views. I'm not saying that as a concession so that you'll shut up because I'm convinced I'm right, I genuinely think theres no right answer on this one. We're both full of shit to an extent.

 

[Terminus]

(1 joint a week makes you smart, 5 joints a week make you dumb.).

That seems like a disappointingly low figure.

 

[Notuern]

That seems like a disappointingly low figure.

I'll requote:

Background: Assessing marijuana's impact on intelligence quotient (IQ) has been hampered by a lack of evaluation of subjects before they begin to use this substance. Using data from a group of young people whom we have been following since birth, we examined IQ scores before, during and after cessation of regular marijuana use to determine any impact of the drug on this measure of cognitive function.

Methods: We determined marijuana use for seventy 17- to 20-year-olds through self-reporting and urinalysis. IQ difference scores were calculated by subtracting each person's IQ score at 9–12 years (before initiation of drug use) from his or her score at 17–20 years. We then compared the difference in IQ scores of current heavy users (at least 5 joints per week), current light users (less than 5 joints per week), former users (who had not smoked regularly for at least 3 months) and non-users (who never smoked more than once per week and no smoking in the past two weeks).

Results: Current marijuana use was significantly correlated (p < 0.05) in a dose- related fashion with a decline in IQ over the ages studied. The comparison of the IQ difference scores showed an average decrease of 4.1 points in current heavy users (p < 0.05) compared to gains in IQ points for light current users (5.8), former users (3.5) and non-users (2.6).

Interpretation: Current marijuana use had a negative effect on global IQ score only in subjects who smoked 5 or more joints per week. A negative effect was not observed among subjects who had previously been heavy users but were no longer using the substance. We conclude that marijuana does not have a long-term negative impact on global intelligence. Whether the absence of a residual marijuana effect would also be evident in more specific cognitive domains such as memory and attention remains to be ascertained.

 

[Terminus]

I'll requote:

It's ok man, you dont have to prove anything to me, ever. I live my life aware of the dangers I put myself into. Sometimes you have to let the devil in to truly live.

 

[HatchetDrummer]

Its funny that soo many people in here drink at least one alcoholic drink a day and think nothing of it, but love to chastise stoners because its called a "drug"

I'm not going to read through all of this, but I will say one thing, if you drink, even if its just beer, your a drug user.

Alcohol is a drug, it kills people, it ruins your body, it damages your brain by falsely stimulating serotonin production because alcohol unlike many other drugs is such a small chemical it can permiate the cell's membrane and effect the cell immediately in certain parts of the brain. It also has done more damage to society then any substance in our human history.

Dont get me wrong, I have 2 dui's have been drinking since I was wayy too young to be drinking. I have 3 family members that cant ever drink ever again because their bodies cant process alcohol anymore. It would only take a half of a beer before the level of alcohol in my uncles body would become toxic to him and kill him.

The best part of all this, is that he, my dad, my brother, most all of my other uncles smoke weed and we all will until were dead, but the best part of smoking weed, is that the worst thing that can happen, I get hungry...

To the OP: you problem is that you live in the middle of the fucking USA dude, get out of bum fuck nowhere and come to a state where weed is sold in store's. duh!!! Why buy some bammer shit off of some kid that grew it in his parents garage when you can go to a cannabis club and buy organic indoor hydro, that has the strains, and the THC content stamped on the side of the box.

Fuck there is even a new place that opened up a half an hour from my house that does deliveries too, im just not that lazy that I cant get out to go buy some dank. Plus it will take you 2-3 months before your used to smoking northern california weed. Its just not the same once you leave the bay area. And thats a fact!

My 2 cents

 

[John_C]

Can anyone say that they've ever *100% sober* watched someone become MORE productive because of smoking weed, either in the short term or the long term? (Excepting using it as a treatment for a pre-existing condition). I certainly can't and where I was brought up weed is everywhere, almost everyone has at least tried it by 18, most have by 14-15, approx 10% of 16-25 year olds use regularly.

However, I have seen a lot of people become less productive because of smoking weed and then regain that productivity through quitting for a while, then lose it again when they restart.


Ultimately, I don't think any mind altering substance helps you be more productive. I love to get stoned, drink etc... but it definitely doesn't help me (and this is a very bold generalisation) or anyone else achieve anything.

 

[PostMortem1666]

Because our tax dollars pay for things like their education, health care, roads, bridges, fire departments, ambulances, police officers, etc... If someone does something that wastes my tax dollars, then I'm against that sort of behavior.

If it didnt affect me, at all, I would not care. This is why I'm pro-life and in support
of gay marriage. Unfortunately, what people put into their bodies tends to affect me if only from an economic standpoint.

It's the same reason why you don't want a neighbor who doesn't take care of his lawn, garden, car, house, etc... It doesn't really affect you personally, but it affects your property value quite a bit.

If it were legalized, regulated, and taxed to hell it could very well prevent or lessen the degree of the coming default in your state.

 

[colonel kurtz]

People are fucking stupid, lazy sacks of fucking shit.

...and they don't need weed to be that way, either

 

[PostMortem1666]

A study I found on intelligence and cognitive effects of heavy marijuana use.

http://www.news.harvard.edu/gazette/2001/10.11/marijuana.html

" All took batteries of intelligence, attention, learning and memory tests on days 0, 1, 7, and 28 after quitting the drug. (Daily urine samples confirmed whether or not they had stopped.) On days 0, 1 and 7, current heavy smokers scored significantly lower then the other groups on memory tests.

"By day 28, however, there were no significant differences among the groups on any of 10 different tests, and no significant association between cumulative lifetime marijuana use and test scores," Pope says. In other words, the researchers conclude that heavy marijuana use produces no irreversible mental deficits. "