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America is a country where you can get arrested for entering your own home. Which is something that can very well be called "stupid".
The Barack Obama review/critique thread
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The Ozzman
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http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/671067
Basically Gates (black Harvard professor) was having trouble unlocking his door. A passerby saw this and thought that he was a robber (reasonable). A white police officer responded. An argument was had and Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct. Gates said that the officer asked him for ID and became angry after it was proven that it was Gates' house.
It seems likely that Gates was being more dickish than he claimed but even so the officer was on duty and shouldn't have arrested someone for getting angry or being a dick especially on their own property. It's hard to say whether or not there was a racial dimension to this, but it's a fact that minorities are discriminated against by law enforcement at a higher rate than white people, so this incident certainly looks worse than if it were two white people.
Basically Gates (black Harvard professor) was having trouble unlocking his door. A passerby saw this and thought that he was a robber (reasonable). A white police officer responded. An argument was had and Gates was arrested for disorderly conduct. Gates said that the officer asked him for ID and became angry after it was proven that it was Gates' house.
It seems likely that Gates was being more dickish than he claimed but even so the officer was on duty and shouldn't have arrested someone for getting angry or being a dick especially on their own property. It's hard to say whether or not there was a racial dimension to this, but it's a fact that minorities are discriminated against by law enforcement at a higher rate than white people, so this incident certainly looks worse than if it were two white people.
Dak
mentat
The Ozzman
Melted by feels
There was no racial dimension to it since the officer's peers say he has led other officers in diversity training and has zero history of prior racial discrimination (from what I understand)
AchrisK
Weakling
I heard there was also a black and a Hispanic officer present.
While it is true that racial profiling happens, it is just as true that some blacks overreact to anything that might resemble it, even if they have no idea what really happened. This officer is well respected by colleagues of all colors.
...and regardless, wtf business does the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES have with making accusations on an event which occurred while he wasn't there? He's an idiot!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer
While it is true that racial profiling happens, it is just as true that some blacks overreact to anything that might resemble it, even if they have no idea what really happened. This officer is well respected by colleagues of all colors.
...and regardless, wtf business does the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES have with making accusations on an event which occurred while he wasn't there? He's an idiot!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090724/ap_on_re_us/us_harvard_scholar_arresting_officer
skeptik
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This is the worst attempt at causational logic I've ever seen before. An officer who is a diversity trainer could not have racially profiled a suspect because he's a diversity trainer? How many senators have legislated bills demeaning and demonizing homosexuality or money laundering and then have later found out to either be gay or part of a money laundering scheme? What about Mark Sanford, who helped spearhead the Clinton impeachment trial under the grounds of immorality? Or Bob Livingston?
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Einherjar86
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Okay, but the officer has no history of racial bigotry. It's in his favor that he has never been convicted of acting in a racially disciminating manner before. Do you desperately want this case to be a racial issue or something; can it not simply be a case of poor "policeman-ship?"
AchrisK
Weakling
Ozzman's statement was too strong based on the facts he gave. But your attempt to nullify this man's character references is just as bad. The type of character references this man is being given, by such a variety of people, means quite a bit in this case. He is being labeled a "rogue cop" and a "racist", as well as being called "stupid" by the president of the USA.
I see now in news articles that the police union is asking for apologies from Obama and the Mass. Governor. I think that would be appropriate. Obama stepped way over the line. I don't think Obama knows about lines.
genocide roach
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this
what?! how dare you defile the reputation of our country's moral leader... obama is a black man seeking to change the way we see race. you owe him your allegiance...
~gR~
skeptik
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http://www.racialprofilinganalysis.neu.edu/index.php
I didn't say a single thing about any specific incident at all. Of course I don't want racial profiling to exist. I don't want racism to exist. But if there are cases of either, they should be addressed. I was just pointing out the absurdity of suggesting that a diversity training officer couldn't possibly have racially profiled a black person.
I didn't "attempt to nullify" anything except a statement for which there was no logical basis. What are you talking about? I didn't even comment on the incident that everybody is discussing.
AchrisK
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this site seems pretty editorial... i'm looking for numbers here (it seems like that part of the site isnt functional, or doesnt actually exist yet). not a briefing on what racial profiling is and random news stories.
~gR~
skeptik
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Obama clearly states that he doesn't know what role race played in this issue, and he clearly differentiates his comments about racial profiling from this specific incident, so I don't think it would be fair for anybody to accuse the president of claiming racial profiling here. The officer himself insists that he did nothing wrong, but on the other hand, "Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association" said that "the facts of the case suggested that the president used the right adjective." So it seems as though the police officer did act stupidly. Should Obama have even answered the question? Probably not. Did he answer the question itself poorly? I honestly don't think that he did. He remarked fairly explicitly that he comment was based on the assumptions that he relates, namely that Gates was already in his house and had proven that he was the owner of the house before he was arrested. I wouldn't be surprised if the officer was more insistent or forceful than he would have been if he'd gotten a call that two white men were seemingly trying to break into a house as opposed to the call received that two black men were seemingly trying to break into a house. What do I think happened? I think that the woman who called 911 more likely racially profiled more than anyone else. I think it's fairly natural for a white woman to be more suspicious of two black men, unfortunately. I also think that Gates was right to feel as though he was being racially profiled by the police officer whether he actually was or not. If what Gates has claimed was true, however, that he had shown identification and proof of residence and was still somewhat under suspicion and was then put under arrest because he yelled at the officer to give him his name and badge number, I think it's certainly possible that race played a role, whether or not it was a significant role.
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AchrisK
Weakling
Irrelevant. He was arrested for disturbing the peace. For becoming belligerent. He was not arrested for breaking and entering.
Obama makes three points:
1. any of us would be pretty angry
Well, no. If I was breaking into my house and the cops came by asking questions, I would be happy, not angry. They are doing their job. Why would I be angry? Say I make it into my house, the come knocking, I answer, show proof, and they leave. Good job coppers!
2. The police acted stupidly in arresting someone when they were already in their own home.
He wasn't arrested for breaking and entering. People get in trouble for having music too loud in their own homes. They get arrested for domestic violence "in their own home". Other (even black) officers who were present are saying they would have done the same thing. The guy flipped out and was abusive and accusatory for no reason. From all that I read, Gates was the problem. Manufacturing racial profiling all on his own and freaking out because of it, rather than being thankful that the police were doing their jobs.
Irrelevant and unproven.
I can see this, though you can't blame her for calling it in, just to be sure.
He was no longer under suspicion once he showed ID. Your statements oversimplify the situation.
You are right about one thing, race played a huge roll. The black man's racism got him in trouble.
Here is a link to the police report
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skeptik
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Boy, that police report sure makes the officer look like a great guy, huh? I'm totally surprised by that. Of course anything that Gates has to say about the incident is definitely lying. Have you ever actually dealt with the police? I have experienced firsthand how they manipulate police report write-ups to ensure that they come out looking fucking great when that wasn't at all the case. You keep saying "irrelevant and unproven" to everything except the police report which isn't any more legitimate. Dennis O'Connor, president of the Cambridge Police Superior Officers Association, said that Obama had chosen the right word to describe the police officer's handling of the situation.
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AchrisK
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It's not just the report. It's that plus the corroboration of other officers and other character witnesses for the officer. It doesn't add up. Even Gates' accusation are seemingly groundless. What has he identified as the act(s) which constitute racial profiling? He hasn't complained of being roughed up or mistreated, just of being racially profiled. But in fact, it would have been irresponsible for the officer not to verify his identity. He had no reason to be abusive.
...and you should stop misquoting Dennis O'Connor:
I can't say for sure what went on exactly or what was in peoples' hearts, but from the outside, I tend to side with the officers.
Regardless, Obama needs to learn when to shut his mouth.
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